Jamal Lord vs Taylor Martinez

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1 minute ago, STL Husker said:

This is a tough one for me.  T-Magic was one of the most electrifying players we've ever had and Lord was one of the toughest.  There were times with each when you were wondering what they were thinking.  Both gave it their all but neither won a championship (as a starter).  My vote goes to Martinez since he never wore those awful pants with the fat red line going down the side.

God those were the WOAT uniforms, especially the away ones.

[Redux]

Wonkiest of all time?

[ADS]

3 minutes ago, Redux said:

Wonkiest of all time?

Close enough.

[NUance]

As much as I love T-Mart I got to go with Lord.  JL carried that team on his back.  Martinez played for better offensive teams. 

[BIG ERN]

Lord did carry the offense, but his senior year we had the 2nd best scoring defense in the nation. Lord was very good, but Martinez had many flashes of great. I've still never seen a QB who could run a straight line 20 yards faster than he could, which always impressed me since he had zero juke ability. 

[Huskerzoo]

I'm assuming we can take them at their best. Pre injury T-Mart I could've seen eventually getting to New York. Horrible throwing motion and everything, he was something else. 

[TGHusker]

6 hours ago, Fru said:

Pre-Missouri 2010 T-Mart

agreed.  T-Mart when healthy also showed he could pass sufficiently.  I was at the OK State shoot out and he surprised everyone at that game with his passing. 

I think a healthy TMart for 4 years may have allowed us to skip the MR years  - but then we wouldn't have SF who I believe will take us well beyond Bo's coaching ceiling.

 

Regarding Lord - if Solich could have just used Lord's strengths and was more creative on offense with his other play makers, Lord could have been great as a pure option QB.  But

Solich did JL left, JL right so much that it lost its effectiveness.  Lord is tops however for heart and attitude.  A healthy T-Mart however had more upside and I think would have been a better QB overall.

 

[Fru]

Just now, TGHusker said:

agreed.  T-Mart when healthy also showed he could pass sufficiently.  I was at the OK State shoot out and he surprised everyone at that game with his passing. 

I think a healthy TMart for 4 years may have allowed us to skip the MR years  - but then we wouldn't have SF who I believe will take us well beyond Bo's coaching ceiling.

 

Regarding Lord - if Solich could have just used Lord's strengths and was more creative on offense with his other play makers, Lord could have been great as a pure option QB.  But

Solich did JL left, JL right so much that it lost its effectiveness.  Lord is tops however for heart and attitude.  A healthy T-Mart however had more upside and I think would have been a better QB overall.

 

 

After the KSU game I was convinced he was going to win the Heisman. Such a shame he never quite returned to his old form. 

[TGHusker]

3 minutes ago, Fru said:

 

After the KSU game I was convinced he was going to win the Heisman. Such a shame he never quite returned to his old form. 

Yep, so did my KSU friend here at work.  He was flabbergasted by what  he saw - he was at the game.  He said each time he looked up TM was taking off on a  long run. 

I remember the first time he touched the ball - the first hike of the 1st game - his very first college touch - 80 yard TD up the middle.  He didn't have time for fancy juke moves, his legs were moving to fast straight ahead.  Although he did show a bit of juking with that 80 yard run against wisc in the CCG - unfortunately it was our only highlight (was Bell's 'block' that decked the Wisc defender in that game - if so - that was the only other highlight)

[Huskers93-97]

On 4/4/2018 at 8:52 PM, Toe said:

I've always said Lord's biggest 'flaw' was simply that he couldn't be a one-man offense like Crouch was. The thing is, he shouldn't have needed to be a one-man offense, but that's the kinda way things were Solich's last few years.

Its hard to compare those 2. Insert Lord with the skill players and offensive line that Crouch had in the late 90's- coupled with the elite defenses he had. I dont know that Nebraska would have done any better or worse with Lord at QB vs Crouch. 

 

As far as Lord Vs. Martinez that is a tough call. 2 different offenses. I think I would choose Lord. Take away being enamored by a few long runs. Martinez could not run the offense Lord did because he could only run in a straight line- no power or agility. Put Lord in martinez offense- he would not have had as many burst plays. But i think he could complete the same % of passes probably and probably would have done a better job moving the chains consistently. If an open straight line run was not available to martinez basically the play was over. I think lord could have broken a tackle or juked a guy or used some agility to keep more drives alive. I remember the martinez years being a big explosive play that we scored on or we punted- no consistent offense.

[dvdcrr]

It would have been awesome to see what Dr. Tom and Turner Gill could have done with T mart.  Can you say Heisman?

[caveman99]

53 minutes ago, Huskers93-97 said:

Its hard to compare those 2. Insert Lord with the skill players and offensive line that Crouch had in the late 90's- coupled with the elite defenses he had. I dont know that Nebraska would have done any better or worse with Lord at QB vs Crouch. 

 

As far as Lord Vs. Martinez that is a tough call. 2 different offenses. I think I would choose Lord. Take away being enamored by a few long runs. Martinez could not run the offense Lord did because he could only run in a straight line- no power or agility. Put Lord in martinez offense- he would not have had as many burst plays. But i think he could complete the same % of passes probably and probably would have done a better job moving the chains consistently. If an open straight line run was not available to martinez basically the play was over. I think lord could have broken a tackle or juked a guy or used some agility to keep more drives alive. I remember the martinez years being a big explosive play that we scored on or we punted- no consistent offense.

I find the revisionist history of T-Magic's career really sad. Fact is that TM was a much better QB than Lord and it isn't even close. Lord was one of my favorites, but he was playing out of position IMO, should have been a Safety. Below are both of their career stats. TM was a career 59.8% passer, and was above 60% his final two years. Jamal was a 48% career passer and in the two seasons Jamal started, and had more than 16 attempts, he couldn't even be a 50% passer. Yes they both played in different offenses, but to assert that Jamal would have completed just as many passes as TM in TM's offensive system is stretching the truth. 

 

The two primary reasons I think that people stick to, and IMO plays a large role in why people discount TM's career, are his sophomore season and the 2012 B1G Title Game. However when TM got hurt in the Missery game in 2010, he was never the same that year and picked up some really bad habits to overcompensate for what he couldn't do. Just look at what he did against Okie State earlier in the year versus what he couldn't do against A&M. Heck the coaches went to a Wildcat with Rex just to win the last games of the year as TM couldn't play and/or be effective. IMO he took those bad habits into 2011 and you get those videos of ugly shotput style throws. To his credit, he went to Steve Calhoun in the offseason to fix his bad habits and came back with a vengence in 2012, completing 62% of his passes and winning OPOY for the B1G. His ability to bring the team back from behind was incredible. However the second thing that helps blind people to just how great TM was that year was the B1G Title game. I don't put that on TM at all. Heck we all had a bad feeling when Baker S. got hurt before the game due to the razor thin depth on the DL already at that point. Heck Cam Meredith was playing DT, which he had no business playing, because they had no one else to fill in. To put that game on TM or to let it wipe out what was a magical season is a shame. 

 

I also think getting hurt in 2013 and not being able to wipe the bad taste out of the fans' mouths from the end of 2012, especially since the injury was self-inflicted, just helps to solidify the negative perceptions many have of TM. People seem to only remember his struggles in 2011 or his pre-Missery injury play in 2010 and wonder what if, but it seems 2012 gets erased completely. Yes there are a lot of what ifs with TM, but frankly he was one of the very best players in the last 15 years and I just don't feel people give him the respect he earned.

 

TAYLOR MARTINEZ

						Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
*2010	Nebraska	Big 12	FR	QB	13	116	196	59.2	1631	8.3	7.7	10	7	138.8
*2011	Nebraska	Big Ten	SO	QB	13	162	288	56.3	2089	7.3	6.9	13	8	126.5
*2012	Nebraska	Big Ten	JR	QB	14	228	368	62	2871	7.8	7.6	23	12	141.6
*2013	Nebraska	Big Ten	SR	QB	4	69	110	62.7	667	6.1	7.1	10	2	140
Career	Nebraska					575	962	59.8	7258	7.5	7.4	56	29	136.3
						Rushing				Scrimmage
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Plays	Yds	Avg	TD
*2010	Nebraska	Big 12	FR	QB	13	162	965	6	12	163	966	5.9	12
*2011	Nebraska	Big Ten	SO	QB	13	188	874	4.6	9	188	874	4.6	9
*2012	Nebraska	Big Ten	JR	QB	14	195	1019	5.2	10	195	1019	5.2	10
*2013	Nebraska	Big Ten	SR	QB	4	40	117	2.9	0	40	117	2.9	0
Career	Nebraska					585	2975	5.1	31	586	2976

 

JAMAL LORD

 

						Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
2000	Nebraska	Big 12	FR	QB	6	9	16	56.3	116	7.3	4.4	0	1	104.7
2001	Nebraska	Big 12	SO	QB	6	5	8	62.5	65	8.1	2.5	0	1	105.8
*2002	Nebraska	Big 12	JR	QB	14	95	204	46.6	1362	6.7	5.2	12	12	110.3
*2003	Nebraska	Big 12	SR	QB	13	85	176	48.3	1305	7.4	6.1	6	8	112.7
Career	Nebraska					194	404	48	2848	7	5.5	18
						Rushing				Scrimmage
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Plays	Yds	Avg	TD
2000	Nebraska	Big 12	FR	QB	6	28	130	4.6	4	28	130	4.6	4
2001	Nebraska	Big 12	SO	QB	6	22	83	3.8	2	22	83	3.8	2
*2002	Nebraska	Big 12	JR	QB	14	251	1412	5.6	8	251	1412	5.6	8
*2003	Nebraska	Big 12	SR	QB	13	215	948	4.4	10	215	948	4.4	10
Career	Nebraska					516	2573	5	24	516	2573	5

[junior4949]

18 hours ago, TGHusker said:

agreed.  T-Mart when healthy also showed he could pass sufficiently.  I was at the OK State shoot out and he surprised everyone at that game with his passing. 

I think a healthy TMart for 4 years may have allowed us to skip the MR years  - but then we wouldn't have SF who I believe will take us well beyond Bo's coaching ceiling.

 

Regarding Lord - if Solich could have just used Lord's strengths and was more creative on offense with his other play makers, Lord could have been great as a pure option QB.  But

Solich did JL left, JL right so much that it lost its effectiveness.  Lord is tops however for heart and attitude.  A healthy T-Mart however had more upside and I think would have been a better QB overall.

 

 

The bolded part is more on Lord than it was Solich.  I can't ever remember a time when Lord audibled that he didn't audible to the option, and he always kept the ball.  Lord was an exceptional athlete, but he was more or less an average QB.  Cotton was brought onto the staff in 03' as OC.  He was brought in to implement the spread.  We saw very little of Cotton's spread offense in 03' because Lord simply couldn't master it.  Lord was a liability in the passing game.  He threw 18 TD passes in his career while also throwing 22 INTs.   

[Toe]

2 hours ago, dvdcrr said:

It would have been awesome to see what Dr. Tom and Turner Gill could have done with T mart.  Can you say Heisman?

 

2 hours ago, junior4949 said:

Cotton was brought onto the staff in 03' as OC.  He was brought in to implement the spread.  We saw very little of Cotton's spread offense in 03' because Lord simply couldn't master it.

 

You always wonder what an alt-2004 with Solich would've looked like. Probably safe to say Joe Dailey would've been a better fit for that offense than he was in Callahan's, but would he have even been up to par? He didn't exactly set the world on fire after he transferred, though he had a knack for signing with coaches who were on their way out...

[NUinID]

2 hours ago, caveman99 said:

I find the revisionist history of T-Magic's career really sad. Fact is that TM was a much better QB than Lord and it isn't even close. Lord was one of my favorites, but he was playing out of position IMO, should have been a Safety. Below are both of their career stats. TM was a career 59.8% passer, and was above 60% his final two years. Jamal was a 48% career passer and in the two seasons Jamal started, and had more than 16 attempts, he couldn't even be a 50% passer. Yes they both played in different offenses, but to assert that Jamal would have completed just as many passes as TM in TM's offensive system is stretching the truth. 

 

The two primary reasons I think that people stick to, and IMO plays a large role in why people discount TM's career, are his sophomore season and the 2012 B1G Title Game. However when TM got hurt in the Missery game in 2010, he was never the same that year and picked up some really bad habits to overcompensate for what he couldn't do. Just look at what he did against Okie State earlier in the year versus what he couldn't do against A&M. Heck the coaches went to a Wildcat with Rex just to win the last games of the year as TM couldn't play and/or be effective. IMO he took those bad habits into 2011 and you get those videos of ugly shotput style throws. To his credit, he went to Steve Calhoun in the offseason to fix his bad habits and came back with a vengence in 2012, completing 62% of his passes and winning OPOY for the B1G. His ability to bring the team back from behind was incredible. However the second thing that helps blind people to just how great TM was that year was the B1G Title game. I don't put that on TM at all. Heck we all had a bad feeling when Baker S. got hurt before the game due to the razor thin depth on the DL already at that point. Heck Cam Meredith was playing DT, which he had no business playing, because they had no one else to fill in. To put that game on TM or to let it wipe out what was a magical season is a shame. 

 

I also think getting hurt in 2013 and not being able to wipe the bad taste out of the fans' mouths from the end of 2012, especially since the injury was self-inflicted, just helps to solidify the negative perceptions many have of TM. People seem to only remember his struggles in 2011 or his pre-Missery injury play in 2010 and wonder what if, but it seems 2012 gets erased completely. Yes there are a lot of what ifs with TM, but frankly he was one of the very best players in the last 15 years and I just don't feel people give him the respect he earned.

 

TAYLOR MARTINEZ

						Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
*2010	Nebraska	Big 12	FR	QB	13	116	196	59.2	1631	8.3	7.7	10	7	138.8
*2011	Nebraska	Big Ten	SO	QB	13	162	288	56.3	2089	7.3	6.9	13	8	126.5
*2012	Nebraska	Big Ten	JR	QB	14	228	368	62	2871	7.8	7.6	23	12	141.6
*2013	Nebraska	Big Ten	SR	QB	4	69	110	62.7	667	6.1	7.1	10	2	140
Career	Nebraska					575	962	59.8	7258	7.5	7.4	56	29	136.3
						Rushing				Scrimmage
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Plays	Yds	Avg	TD
*2010	Nebraska	Big 12	FR	QB	13	162	965	6	12	163	966	5.9	12
*2011	Nebraska	Big Ten	SO	QB	13	188	874	4.6	9	188	874	4.6	9
*2012	Nebraska	Big Ten	JR	QB	14	195	1019	5.2	10	195	1019	5.2	10
*2013	Nebraska	Big Ten	SR	QB	4	40	117	2.9	0	40	117	2.9	0
Career	Nebraska					585	2975	5.1	31	586	2976

 

JAMAL LORD

 

						Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
2000	Nebraska	Big 12	FR	QB	6	9	16	56.3	116	7.3	4.4	0	1	104.7
2001	Nebraska	Big 12	SO	QB	6	5	8	62.5	65	8.1	2.5	0	1	105.8
*2002	Nebraska	Big 12	JR	QB	14	95	204	46.6	1362	6.7	5.2	12	12	110.3
*2003	Nebraska	Big 12	SR	QB	13	85	176	48.3	1305	7.4	6.1	6	8	112.7
Career	Nebraska					194	404	48	2848	7	5.5	18
						Rushing				Scrimmage
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Plays	Yds	Avg	TD
2000	Nebraska	Big 12	FR	QB	6	28	130	4.6	4	28	130	4.6	4
2001	Nebraska	Big 12	SO	QB	6	22	83	3.8	2	22	83	3.8	2
*2002	Nebraska	Big 12	JR	QB	14	251	1412	5.6	8	251	1412	5.6	8
*2003	Nebraska	Big 12	SR	QB	13	215	948	4.4	10	215	948	4.4	10
Career	Nebraska					516	2573	5	24	516	2573	5

 

Very good write up.  I was basically going to write the same thing about Martinez but there is no need now.  TM should have been shut down the day after he hurt his ankle against Missouri and not practiced again until  the spring of 2011.  His ankle/turf toe problems really caused him to change his throwing mechanics.   Martinez was an odd duck.  He wasn't very good with the media and I don't think he was much of a leader.