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South Africa government taking land owned by White farmers


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Just now, Nebfanatic said:

If native americans were in power and said we want our land back then you wouldn't have the right anymore so thats the difference. White rule remains here.

 

No, sensible rule remains here. What you just suggested would be ridiculous. For all the terrible things the American government had done in the past, the current government has done more to reconcile those wrongs than most governments you'll find. 

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3 minutes ago, funhusker said:

The fact that the land grab happened relatively recently, I tend to think it is okay and just.  There are people alive today who themselves or sons/daughters had their land taken in a very unfair way (to put it mildly).

 

But I also have a hard time relating this to Native Americans and the land I currently own.  Yes I bought my property from a man, who bought it from another, and another, and somewhere back in the chain I'm guessing it was purchased or homesteaded immediately after the U.S. took it from Native Americans.  But what tribe should get my house? The Ponca, the Pawnee, the the Omaha, the Lokota...some other tribe that one of those tribes stole it from?  Humans have been conquering lands either with violence or treaty for at least 10000 years if not many more, how far back to we have to go until we get to the "actual" owner.  Like Nebfanatic said, this land doesn't belong to any of us.  But as long as I have that piece of paper that shows my government says it's mine.  It's mine.

 

 

This is along the same line of the point I was trying to make earlier. That's just the way the world worked, and white people certainly didn't have the market cornered.

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1 hour ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

No, sensible rule remains here. What you just suggested would be ridiculous. For all the terrible things the American government had done in the past, the current government has done more to reconcile those wrongs than most governments you'll find. 

That wasn't my point though. The only thing that gives your land 'ownership' legitimacy is the US government. If another group were to take control of this country your ownership wouldnt mean jack

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2 hours ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

I'm ready for a MOD to shut it down. I should of known better than to bring the white man's plight to Huskerboard.

 

People can obviously see that there's an "agenda" or a very particular perspective at work when you post something like this and aren't consistent in highlighting plights of minorities. So, yes, you should have known better, I agree.

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

Personally, I can admit that what my ancestors did was disgusting, but also understand that I had no part in it, and that I have just as much right as any Native American to live/own land here. 

 

If your grandpa steals my grandpa's car, and then passes it down to your dad who passes it down to you, you do not have just as much right to that car as I do. I have more of a right to it.

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5 minutes ago, Landlord said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

If your grandpa steals my grandpa's car, and then passes it down to your dad who passes it down to you, you do not have just as much right to that car as I do. I have more of a right to it.

 

Terrible example.

 

There's plenty of land for all of us, whereas not everybody can drive one car at the same time. 

 

I was born here just like they were, so the "car" is just as much mine as theirs.

 

Such a hypocritical Theory, considering the liberal stance on immigration, and how they have every right to be here.

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1 hour ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

 

This is along the same line of the point I was trying to make earlier. That's just the way the world worked, and white people certainly didn't have the market cornered.

 

No one is making that claim--literally no one.

 

And so wait...you're outaged this is happening, but also oh well "That's just the way the world is"?  Huh???

 

And just because things have been done a particular way for a long time DOES NOT mean it should continue.

 

White people, especially rich white people, are 100% fine with degrading, exploiting, and stealing from poor whites, non-whites, and anyone else below their station.  But when someone steals from them, it is somehow a crime.

 

It's like I said in a different thread: A poor person steals from a rich person and it is a crime.  A rich person steals from a poor person and it is called "business."

 

And you never answered me: where is your outrage at what happened in the link I provided?  Where is your outrage?  Where?

 

 

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It's only been 27 years, so I find it hard to believe these people are being punished for someone else's sins. Some of them are the same exact people, and many of them were fine with apartheid and how it benefited them.

Native Americans keep being brought up. I don't know that it's a good example. Let's imagine the Native American population on the current reservations was 260 million, and the population in the rest of the United States was 65 million. I think that's an issue that would need to be rectified, and I think the government would need to step in. Blacks are still in deep poverty there and it's hard to get out when you've been segregated for that long and had little/no right to own land.

 

atlas_SJQ1Hvhd-.png

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6 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

Terrible example.

 

There's plenty of land for all of us, whereas not everybody can drive one car at the same time. 

 

I was born here just like they were, so the "car" is just as much mine as theirs.

 

Such a hypocritical Theory, considering the liberal stance on immigration, and how they have every right to be here.

 

 

How is it hypocritical? Immigrants who aren't stealing... aren't stealing.

And there is not plenty of land for everyone in South Africa.

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3 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

Terrible example.

 

There's plenty of land for all of us, whereas not everybody can drive one car at the same time. 

 

I was born here just like they were, so the "car" is just as much mine as theirs.

 

Such a hypocritical Theory, considering the liberal stance on immigration, and how they have every right to be here.

Then why divide it up into mine and yours? It either is property or it isn't. There are millions of cars out there your grandpa could have went and purchased but he decided to steal instead because its more cost effective. If property is property then the analogy is no different. If its land for us all to use, then no one owns it in the first place. You can't have it both ways

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1 hour ago, Moiraine said:

It's only been 27 years, so I find it hard to believe these people are being punished for someone else's sins. Some of them are the same exact people, and many of them were fine with apartheid and how it benefited them.

Native Americans keep being brought up. I don't know that it's a good example. Let's imagine the Native American population on the current reservations was 260 million, and the population in the rest of the United States was 65 million. I think that's an issue that would need to be rectified, and I think the government would need to step in. Blacks are still in deep poverty there and it's hard to get out when you've been segregated for that long and had little/no right to own land.

 

atlas_SJQ1Hvhd-.png

 

This is a pretty good post.

 

When this turned towards Native Americans, I initially thought about how much of a raw deal they've gotten here. They had their land taken from them and despite being able to have casinos tax-free to make some money, 22% of them still live on reservations. They have less education, make less money and are less healthy than other Americans. Their infants have a substantially higher death rate. Many of them still live in abject poverty & don't have access to the same resources many of the rest of us do.

 

To top it off, they haven't gotten their land back.

 

I view the South Africa thing similar to reparations that many descendants of slave families seek in America. It's not something many families have gotten & a pretty controversial subject. But South Africa has a government that's decided to pursue this. Apartheid is far more recent than American slavery. Is this fair? Not necessarily. Was Apartheid itself fair? Nope. The parties just switched sides.

 

For an interesting corollary to the U.S., Jeff Sessions wants to expand Civil Asset Forfeiture & Congress dragged their feet stopping him when they had the chance. Broadly unpopular, super unfair, happened anyway.  

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There are certain things in history that simply can't be undone.  Are we going to just have everyone who isn't native American not own any land in the US and probably have to move out of the country so all the native Americans can have their land back?  Obviously not.  There is no way for that to actually take place.

 

What white people did to the native Americans is deplorable and should never have happened.  BUT...let's not pretend that before that, native American tribes  were living here in peace and harmony.  They were brutal to each other taking land and territories from each other.

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