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What reforms to American immigration do you support?


What reforms to American immigration do you support?  

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Reading a thread on Reddit and current events got me thinking - maybe we should have a poll for such a complex and hot-button topic.

Check all solutions you think would be beneficial. Feel free to explain your rationale or not.

I tried to be comprehensive but if I missed something I can definitely add it to the poll.

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I think illegal immigration is a very minor problem, and I voted based on that. We shouldn't spend more money on it than we already are. It's been reducing steadily for years and years now. It's almost a non issue in my opinion. That doesn't mean I think we should let up on what we're doing, but what we were doing before Trump was fine.

Maybe it's a silly comparison, but jaywalking is illegal to. As is driving 5 mph over the limit. I've yet to see anything substantial to back up the claim that illegal immigration has thus far harmed us. I've read a lot of the opposite though, e.g. in areas where we have labor shortages.

Immigration should be extremely far down the list of things people care about.

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15 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

Immigration should be extremely far down the list of things people care about.

 

My guess...if it was white people illegally immigrating, Trump and his band on goons, and supporters wouldn't care.  It is mostly racism and xenophobia which drives our current immigration policy.  Having said that, the United States government has every right (and a civic duty) to protect our borders.  I'm not really worried about people from Mexico a d Latin America illegally immigrating if they're just trying to make their life better and more prosperous.  My concern with a lax immigration policy is terrorists using it to make it to American soil.  Cartels, for the right price, would get involved and help really bad people get into this country.  I freely admit I have no solution to the illegal immigration problem.  All I know is that looking the other way and/or pretending it isn't a problem is not smart.

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4 minutes ago, Making Chimichangas said:

 

My guess...if it was white people illegally immigrating, Trump and his band on goons, and supporters wouldn't care.  It is mostly racism and xenophobia which drives our current immigration policy.  Having said that, the United States government has every right (and a civic duty) to protect our borders.  I'm not really worried about people from Mexico a d Latin America illegally immigrating if they're just trying to make their life better and more prosperous.  My concern with a lax immigration policy is terrorists using it to make it to American soil.  Cartels, for the right price, would get involved and help really bad people get into this country.  I freely admit I have no solution to the illegal immigration problem.  All I know is that looking the other way and/or pretending it isn't a problem is not smart.

 

 

What is the evidence that the policy is/was lax, or that it's a problem? We're not currently doing nothing, we weren't doing nothing pre-Trump, and it's reduced steadily for years.

My philosophy is that something needs to be shown to be a problem before we "fix" it, and we weren't letting immigrants in willy nilly before.

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Just now, Moiraine said:

 

 

What is the evidence that it's a problem? We're not currently doing nothing, we weren't doing nothing pre-Trump, and it's reduced steadily for years.

 

I meant that I disagree with you about illegal immigration being "way down on the list of things to care about."  It's not up there and extremely pressing, but it's not (nor should it be) as low as what you're suggesting.  

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8 minutes ago, Making Chimichangas said:

I meant that I disagree with you about illegal immigration being "way down on the list of things to care about."  It's not up there and extremely pressing, but it's not (nor should it be) as low as what you're suggesting.  

 

 

Gotcha. That's not really what I meant with the statement, though. I realize this is a stupid comparison but - rabies would be very important if it was widespread. It's important that we make sure the rabies vaccinations keep working. It's not important that we quadruple the money we're spending on it and talk about it at every rally and separate all animals from their parents and make it harder for animals without rabies to be near humans. What I'm saying is the status quo on immigration was fine.

 

Yes, it's important that our immigration policy works. It's not so important that we need to build a f*ing wall, make a visa harder to get for my former roommate at UNL (it's going on 2 years since she applied and she is sponsored by her employer - if not for Trump she would already have it), spend a s#!t ton of money on a problem that is already steadily getting better, etc. That's what I meant by the statement.

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3 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

Gotcha. That's not really what I meant with the statement, though. I realize this is a stupid comparison but - rabies would be very important if it was widespread. It's important that we make sure the rabies vaccinations keep working. It's not important that we quadruple the money we're spending on it and talk about it at every rally. What I'm saying is the status quo on immigration was fine.

 

Yes, it's important that our immigration policy works. It's not so important that we need to build a f*ing wall, make a visa harder to get for my former roommate at UNL (it's going on 2 years since she applied and she is sponsored), spend a s#!t ton of money on a problem that is already steadily getting better, etc.

 

I think we basically agree overall we're just stating it differently and a few small details differ.  

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So, to play Devil's advocate...

Steve Bannon asserts that a large part of Donald Trump getting elected was his taking a hardline stance on immigration issues, which he claims many Americans agreed with but weren't hearing from other politicians on either side of the aisle.

Trump obviously made it a central part of his campaign. There's some intersectionality between a hardline anti-immigrant stance and railing on trade agreements that have hurt American workers. Right or wrong, there is a certain chunk of the population that believes that globalism has led to millions of jobs that would've otherwise gone to Americans being outsourced or taken by illegal immigrants, both of which theoretically drive down wages for American workers.

Is this assessment valid? How much has our immigration system hurt the average American worker over the last couple decades?

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For many reasons illegal border crossing attempts have slowed down steadily for years . That’s mostly why I think the wall is a huge waste of money and 20 years too late . To me the bigger problem is the estimated 12 million or more illegals who are already here . 

My solution would be a tamper proof fingerprint ID card for all citizens . Nobody can get a job , place to live , etc without one . Without the card illegals can’t live here and they’ll go home. As long as they can come here , get jobs , housing and fly under the radar,  they will keep coming . No wall or INS , deportation, etc will stop them . 

 

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1 hour ago, Big Red 40 said:

For many reasons illegal border crossing attempts have slowed down steadily for years . That’s mostly why I think the wall is a huge waste of money and 20 years too late . To me the bigger problem is the estimated 12 million or more illegals who are already here . 

My solution would be a tamper proof fingerprint ID card for all citizens . Nobody can get a job , place to live , etc without one . Without the card illegals can’t live here and they’ll go home. As long as they can come here , get jobs , housing and fly under the radar,  they will keep coming . No wall or INS , deportation, etc will stop them . 

 

 

I'd imagine there would be some backlash to registering everyone in anymore government databases than they absolutely have to be.

Sounds a bit like the Mark of the Beast, for those who've ever picked up a Bible :lol:

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Lol yeah I remember some sermons from my youth where they were concerned that UPC codes were going to be the mark of the beast . Everyone would have to have one on their body or they couldn’t get anything . I’m sure paranoia and distrust would fuel backlash about an I’d card too . 

In reality we already have to use drivers licenses , social security numbers etc to get things done and most of our info is already in databases . The ID card would be not much different . (Unless you’re here illegally and can’t get one ) 

I work/interact  with hundreds of Hispanics with varying degrees of legal status , and have for years . As long as they can come here  get jobs , and live a better life they will do it . Until we make it much more difficult to live and work here illegally , the problem will persist . 

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