Is this racial bias?

[Moiraine]

17 minutes ago, NUance said:

So if the agent wasn't concerned about child safety when trying to confirm that the child belong to Ms. Gottlieb, then what was her reason for inquiring? 

 

Which is worse, occasionally inconveniencing a parent at a ticket counter or occasionally allowing a child to on board an airplane with an adult that the child doesn't belong with?   

 

 

Literally no one is prioritizing not offending someone over the child's safety. It's a question of whether this extra thing was necessary or if it was asked because the employee was an asshole because the child is biracial. They had a birth certificate, a passport, had never been asked the previous 49 times they had flown with the kid, and the woman next to them who didn't have a biracial baby had never been asked even though she had flown with children who had different last names from her. Those 2 examples are not irrefutable proof of anything. It is possible that this particular employee asks everyone who has a kid with a different last name. But the argument isn't about child safety vs. offending someone. It's about whether the question was necessary for child safety or not. If it is necessary, then it should be done for every baby with a different last name, regardless of whether or not it would offend anyone.

[NUance]

Just now, Moiraine said:

 

 

Literally no one is prioritizing not offending someone over the child's safety. It's a question of whether this extra thing was necessary or because the employee was an asshole because the child is biracial. They had a birth certificate, a passport, had never been asked the previous 49 times they had flown with the kid, and the woman next to them who didn't have a biracial baby had never been asked even though she had flown with children who had different last names from her. Those 2 examples are not irrefutable proof of anything. But the argument isn't about child safety vs. offending someone. It's about whether the question was necessary for child safety or not. If it is necessary, then it should be done for every baby with a different last name, regardless of whether or not it would offend anyone.

 

Ms. Gottlieb has a different name on her passport than the child.  

 

And yes, it sounds live several people in this thread are far more concerned with avoiding the possibility of offending someone over concerns about child safety.  Shoot, the whole internet is full of people like that.  

[NM11046]

Moiraine beat me to most of my points.  But I'll add, if this is a problem (children of differing races or looking different from their parents)  is a safety issue, then the airlines or FAA need to come up with rules and guidelines of what proof of identity is needed for every flight with a child.  Every child.  Consistency is the only way that this sort of line of questioning becomes one of saftey and not one of profiling or discrimination.

 

Not one parent or person alive would consider that an inconvenience.  It makes more sense than all of us taking our shoes off for security.  But this particular incident was not handled in a way that can be looked at in any other way than wrong.

[Moiraine]

8 minutes ago, NUance said:

 

Ms. Gottlieb has a different name on her passport than the child.  

 

And yes, it sounds live several people in this thread are far more concerned with avoiding the possibility of offending someone over concerns about child safety.  Shoot, the whole internet is full of people like that.  

 

 

To the bolded - how did you get the impression I wasn't aware of that?

And no, it doesn't sound like that at all. They should either ask everyone who has a kid with a different last name, and therefore risk offending people, or ask no one. The whole argument is whether they are really asking everyone, or specifically this one person because the kid is biracial. If the latter, they should stop. If the former, this isn't a big deal. But then the airline should have a policy of bringing a photo of both parents or some crap.

 

This shouldn't be some subjective thing where the person looks at the baby and if it looks different than the parent they ask them a bunch of extra questions. It should be all or nothing.

[NM11046]

1 minute ago, NUance said:

 

Ms. Gottlieb has a different name on her passport than the child.  

 

And yes, it sounds live several people in this thread are far more concerned with avoiding the possibility of offending someone over concerns about child safety.  Shoot, the whole internet is full of people like that.  

The birth certificate listed her as the mother.  She had an ID that matched her to the name on the birth certificate.  The child's passport matched the birth certificate.

 

This is not about offending anyone, except as it turns out, people who think this was an appropriate thing to do.

[NUance]

2 minutes ago, NM11046 said:

The birth certificate listed her as the mother.  She had an ID that matched her to the name on the birth certificate.  The child's passport matched the birth certificate.

 

This is not about offending anyone, except as it turns out, people who think this was an appropriate thing to do.

 

I think it's appropriate to be more concerned about child safety than about the possibility of offending some person with a brief inquiry.  Apparently you disagree.    

[JJ Husker]

45 minutes ago, ZRod said:

It looks bad, but I really don't think it's as big of a deal as some of you think. Its more about a SW employee not having good people skills. The kid doesn't look like their parent, for obvious reasons. They don't have the same last name either. Those are a few red flags to start asking a some questions and make sure everything is ok. Obviously the employee didn't know how to smoothly talk through it without being offensive. Just ask some simple questions like: how old, when  is the birthday, where you going, why are  you traveling, etc. If they answer things calmly and quickly then things are probably fine. Asking for Facebook is ridiculous, a birth certificate should be enough, unless they have other required documents for all adults flying with children.

 

28 minutes ago, NUance said:

 

So if the agent wasn't concerned about child safety when trying to confirm that the child belong to Ms. Gottlieb, then what was her reason for inquiring? 

 

Which is worse, occasionally inconveniencing a parent at a ticket counter or occasionally allowing a child to on board an airplane with an adult that the child doesn't belong with?   

 

My concern is, what is their official policy on this and is it Southwest Airlines job to assure children are traveling only with the proper adults? I’ve traveled with kids and don’t ever recall an airline saying boo about it. I don’t believe this was handled according to any policy or by any government dictate. If that happens to be in the airline’s realm of enforcement, then they are doing a piss poor job of it and they need much more consistent procedures.

 

 It sounds good to make up the narrative that anything that might prevent a child abduction should be supported and applauded but it is just that, a fabricated narrative explaining away questionable at best and abhorrent at worst behavior. Maybe it was done out of legitimate concern over mismatched names but I doubt that is any official policy either. Have you noticed the mish mash of names people have nowadays with blended families, divorces, etc.? The large number of families that are comprised of multiple ethnicities? Maybe (probably) it was just a rogue employee with poor people skills and/or a little latent racism. And if you think racism is way down the list of possibilities just look at some of the social media comments contained in the linked article. They’re out there and I’m sure some of them work for airlines.

 

And BTW, my last concern is if anyone should be offended or inconvenienced. That’s pretty much what air travel is about anymore  My concern is that it’s not official policy and, if it is, then it probably needs to be revisited and applied in a much more even manner. Skin tones and non matching names is not the way to do it in my opinion.

[Moiraine]

2 minutes ago, NUance said:

I think it's appropriate to be more concerned about child safety than about the possibility of offending some person with a brief inquiry.  Apparently you disagree.    

 

 

This is not the case for anyone in this entire topic. You are missing the point.

[NUance]

1 minute ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

This isn't completely not the case for anyone in this entire topic. You are missing the point.

 

I'm not sure I can work through the double negatives here.  You're saying: This is the case for anyone in this entire topic, right? 

[Moiraine]

3 minutes ago, NUance said:

 

I'm not sure I can work through the double negatives here.  You're saying: This is the case for anyone in this entire topic, right? 

 

 

I was typing something else and changed it, which you can see in the post I edited before you hit submit. Have you ever made a typo?

 

Do you think all people who look like they're Arabs should be patted down by airport security, and no one else should be patted down? After all, from my recollection it's only been Arabs who have blown up planes or buildings with planes in the U.S. So maybe we should only check Arabs, Muslims, and people wearing turbans.

[commando]

hey...i get stopped all the time on the highway to prove that my kids are indeed mine.  it's all good though because it's for the kids safety.  it goes a bit far when the checkout girl at no frills has me provide birth certificates to prove that the infant formula is for my own kids though.

[NUance]

Okay then, since several of you in this thread think the inquiry had nothing to do with child safety, then why did the Southwest Airlines ticket agent make this inquiry?  Is she just an evil bigoted person who does evil things at work for her own entertainment?  Or is there some other plausible reason she sought to confirm the relationship between mother and child? 

[Moiraine]

12 minutes ago, NUance said:

Okay then, since several of you in this thread think the inquiry had nothing to do with child safety, then why did the Southwest Airlines ticket agent make this inquiry?  Is she just an evil bigoted person who does evil things at work for her own entertainment?  Or is there some other plausible reason she sought to confirm the relationship between mother and child? 

 

 

You seem to not really be reading people's posts, as this has been answered multiple times. It was either racial profiling, or she does this for every kid who has a different last name from the parent. If it's the latter and this is policy, that's fine. If it's the latter and it's not policy, I'm sure Southwest will tell her it's not policy.

Here's a good one to read:

 

[BigRedBuster]

This was probably a stupid way to handle it and it obviously could have been done better.  However, I fail to see how this is discrimination or racial bias.

 

The employee obviously had a reason to believe the kid may not have been hers.  I have no problem with them checking some way. 

[NM11046]

Ok, so this isnt going to be perfect, but I want to step away from the violtile topic of race and children's saftey and drill down to the core issue.   Its not a perfect analogy I know but here goes.

 

So NUance, lets say you are an overweight, white, bald 56 year old man.   You own an orange, jacked up Mazda RX7 (a la Fast and Furious).  You are driving down the highway going 5 miles under the speed limit and get pulled over by a cop who claims it was because he was concerned that you didnt look like you owned the car.  You show him proof of insurance, liscense, registration etc.  No dice, only young drug dealers and street racers own these cars, it can't be yours, show me some pictures of you standing by this car the year you bought it as proof.  FB is fine.  The cop only wants to make sure that you are "safe" in this car, because you're an white, overweight, bald man.   While you are on the side of the road a red Mazda RX7 being driven by a white, 22 year old chiseled  male who is wearing RayBans and has great hair drives by gpoing 80 and the cop waves to him.  

 

Still think its a saftey issue that he is worried about?  Or is it that you don't fit the profile for what he, in his mind thinks should be driving the car?