Would we really be better off under President Clinton?

[TGHusker]

54 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

I agree.

 

And I also really appreciate the honest back and forth. @TGHusker, your post above gives me hope we aren't too divided yet to come back together.

Believe me if crap comes out about Trump via the Mueller investigation that shows Trump for who he is behind the curtain (not that he hides it much now), I think a lot of people

will 'repent' of their vote and get back to some sense of reality and moderation.  If ever there was a candidate, Dem or Repub, who could appeal to the vast center right to center left crowd, now is the time to run.  I think they will win.

[BigRedBuster]

13 minutes ago, knapplc said:

Some votes are a vote against something. In 2016, you either voted against Hillary or you voted against Trump.  Every vote for anyone other than Hillary was a vote for Trump.

I refuse to look at my vote like that anymore.  I voted like that for a long time as a Republican.  When I became an independent, I decided I can't do that anymore.  Put someone up who is worth my vote, and I will vote for them.

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, BigRedBuster said:

I refuse to look at my vote like that anymore.  I voted like that for a long time as a Republican.  When I became an independent, I decided I can't do that anymore.  Put someone up who is worth my vote, and I will vote for them.

 

Then you're going to get the same thing you have now. This obstinate view of the world is self-serving and has gotten us Trump in the White House.  You can cloak yourself in righteous indignation that neither party put forth a preferable candidate - and you're correct, they didn't - but the reality is that you have to think of someone other than yourself and your principles sometimes.  When people take principled stands like this, we end up with Trump, because that stand is relying on someone else to make the choice that's more right for us. 

 

Don't rely on someone else to do the right thing. Do it yourself. That's part of the responsibility of being a citizen in a free society.

[BigRedBuster]

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

 

Then you're going to get the same thing you have now. This obstinate view of the world is self-serving and has gotten us Trump in the White House.  You can cloak yourself in righteous indignation that neither party put forth a preferable candidate - and you're correct, they didn't - but the reality is that you have to think of someone other than yourself and your principles sometimes.  When people take principled stands like this, we end up with Trump, because that stand is relying on someone else to make the choice that's more right for us. 

 

Don't rely on someone else to do the right thing. Do it yourself. That's part of the responsibility of being a citizen in a free society.

 

You absolutely have proven you have no clue on my attitude towards this.  This has nothing to do with me and I have this attitude BECAUSE I'm thinking of others.  

Back when i used to vote like you claim I should, I voted for Bush.  I supported him.  What did we end up with?  Three wards, thousands dead and trillions of dollars gone.

 

I won't do that again just because I think Bush was less worse than the Democrat he was running against.  Now, there were a number of people running for President that I would have probably voted for.  Heck...I probably would have voted for Bernie if he had been the Democratic nomination.

So, stop with the attitude that my vote was self serving.  It was no less self serving than anyone else's.  We vote how we feel we need to vote to move the country in the right direction.  I feel like all of us in this conversation are well informed voters.  Just because I voted the way I did doesn't mean I'm self serving and others aren't.

[knapplc]

Trump is in the White House.  Tell me again how you're making good decisions on votes.

[BigRedBuster]

3 minutes ago, knapplc said:

Trump is in the White House.  Tell me again how you're making good decisions on votes.

So, this is where it's come to?  We're at the point of even accusing people that didn't vote for Trump that they are the cause of all of this?

 

I'll step away from the conversation now.

 

I'll see you in another thread and hopefully have a nice conversation.

[knapplc]

Of course! I said that several posts ago.  We knew what Trump was. Every vote not for Hillary was a vote saying that a person was OK with Trump in the White House.

 

That's the point I've been making all afternoon. 

 

You didn't have to be happy to vote for Hillary, or even like it. I hated it.  But that was the responsible vote for America, and I made it.  Given the choice again, I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

 

And I'd be here bitching about President Clinton II right now.  But it'd be better than where we are now.

[RedDenver]

25 minutes ago, knapplc said:

Every vote not for Hillary was a vote saying that a person was OK with Trump in the White House.

You keep claiming this, and it's just as incorrect now as it was the first time you put it in this thread.

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, RedDenver said:

You keep claiming this, and it's just as incorrect now as it was the first time you put it in this thread.

 

And yet Donald Trump is in the White House.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[RedDenver]

4 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

And yet Donald Trump is in the White House.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If that's the only evidence needed then:

Every vote not for Jill Stein was a vote saying that a person was OK with Trump in the White House.

 

Illogical arguments are fun.

[knapplc]

Except that Jill Stein, logically, was never going to get into the White House.  C'mon.  There's hypotheticals and there's reality. 

[Big Red 40]

I don’t really see the point of voting for a candidate who has zero chance of winning though . I understand being idealistic , voting your conscience  etc. but nothing  a candidate says, or wants to do, matters unless they win the election . Trump or Clinton were really the only choices . 

[Fru]

2 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

If that's the only evidence needed then:

Every vote not for Jill Stein was a vote saying that a person was OK with Trump in the White House.

 

Illogical arguments are fun.

 

Jill Stein had no chance of winning. Hillary did. 

 

[RedDenver]

Just now, knapplc said:

Except that Jill Stein, logically, was never going to get into the White House.  C'mon.  There's hypotheticals and there's reality. 

And yet Donald Trump is in the White House.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[RedDenver]

3 minutes ago, Big Red 40 said:

I don’t really see the point of voting for a candidate who has zero chance of winning though . I understand being idealistic , voting your conscience  etc. but nothing  a candidate says, or wants to do, matters unless they win the election . 

 

2 minutes ago, Fru said:

 

Jill Stein had no chance of winning. Hillary did. 

 

I live in Colorado. If I had voted for Hillary how would anything in the election have changed? Heck, if every man, woman, child, dog, cat, and hamster in Colorado had voted for Hillary, how would anything in the election have changed?