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Ric Flair

Bill Clinton, Monstrous Crimes, and Liberal #MeToo Hypocrisy

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3 minutes ago, Clifford Franklin said:

I fail to see how you hang that on any Democrats outside of Bill Clinton.

 

His words & actions are his own. 

 

He’s been the most popular Democrat, other than Obama, for decades. He’s lauded, applauded, celebrated, and honored by Democrats. He’s a speaker at Democratic events, rallies, and conventions...often the keynote speaker. He’s made tens of millions of dollars based on his popularity among Democrats.

 

Championing a rapist and serial sexual predator is appalling in a vacuum. Doing so while shrieking about #METOO is unbelievably hypocritical.

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59 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

 

He’s been the most popular Democrat, other than Obama, for decades. He’s lauded, applauded, celebrated, and honored by Democrats. He’s a speaker at Democratic events, rallies, and conventions...often the keynote speaker. He’s made tens of millions of dollars based on his popularity among Democrats.

 

Championing a rapist and serial sexual predator is appalling in a vacuum. Doing so while shrieking about #METOO is unbelievably hypocritical.

 

If that's your opinion, that's fair. He's put on a pedestal by Democrats because he's a former president. That's pretty much the long and short of it. It's impossible to uncouple the allegations against him from him being POTUS & being incredibly popular. So in continuing to give him a platform, the Dems deserve whatever heat they catch from statements like yours.

 

But I'd similarly hope you'd call for the GOP to excommunicate Trump when his term(s) end due to the dozens of accusations against him. 

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Clinton and Trump both have a list of sexual indiscretions yes . The difference being Clinton paid the price for his and Trump lies/denies and isn’t held accountable for anything . 

Clinton is a highly educated, charismatic , likeable guy who did a good job at his Presidental  duties . Trump not so much any of those things .

 I saw nothing in that  opinion piece that “proves” Clinton is a monster either . He paid a dear price for what he did, and appologies were made to appropriate people 20 years ago when it happened . It’s over . 

Lots of wasted energy worrying about that anyway ,  when there are awful things being done by the current administration on a daily basis, with no repercussions . 

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1 hour ago, Clifford Franklin said:

 

If that's your opinion, that's fair. He's put on a pedestal by Democrats because he's a former president. That's pretty much the long and short of it. It's impossible to uncouple the allegations against him from him being POTUS & being incredibly popular. So in continuing to give him a platform, the Dems deserve whatever heat they catch from statements like yours.

 

But I'd similarly hope you'd call for the GOP to excommunicate Trump when his term(s) end due to the dozens of accusations against him. 

 

Fair enough. Trump deserves whatever heat he gets for his sexual misdeeds as well. But he hasn’t been boinking interns on the desk in the Oval Office nor has he been credibly charged with rape. So while Trump is a philandering douchebag and scummy guy generally, I don’t think he’s committed any crimes. 

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28 minutes ago, Big Red 40 said:

Clinton and Trump both have a list of sexual indiscretions yes . The difference being Clinton paid the price for his and Trump lies/denies and isn’t held accountable for anything . 

Clinton is a highly educated, charismatic , likeable guy who did a good job at his Presidental  duties . Trump not so much any of those things .

 I saw nothing in that  opinion piece that “proves” Clinton is a monster either . He paid a dear price for what he did, and appologies were made to appropriate people 20 years ago when it happened . It’s over . 

Lots of wasted energy worrying about that anyway ,  when there are awful things being done by the current administration on a daily basis, with no repercussions . 

 

Clinton never apologized to Lewinsky, bristled at the notion that he probably should have, and cast himself as the victim in the whole sordid mess. I’ve never viewed him as very “likeable,” probably because I’m not a fan of rapists and sexual predators.

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13 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

 

Fair enough. Trump deserves whatever heat he gets for his sexual misdeeds as well. But he hasn’t been boinking interns on the desk in the Oval Office nor has he been credibly charged with rape. So while Trump is a philandering douchebag and scummy guy generally, I don’t think he’s committed any crimes. 

 

Go look up "Michael Cohen can't rape your spouse."

Very similar to the Broaddrick situation.

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Clinton  never was covicted of rape or he would be in jail right now . I don’t think him getting a bj from a concenting adult necessarily puts him in the predatory category either . He didn’t get impeached for that anyway,  he got impeached for lying about it , which is pretty normal human behavior to me . I didn’t think it was a big deal then and don’t now , but if we’re gonna say it is, then we need to look into Trumps long list of accusers too . 

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3 hours ago, Big Red 40 said:

Clinton  never was covicted of rape or he would be in jail right now . I don’t think him getting a bj from a concenting adult necessarily puts him in the predatory category either . He didn’t get impeached for that anyway,  he got impeached for lying about it , which is pretty normal human behavior to me . I didn’t think it was a big deal then and don’t now , but if we’re gonna say it is, then we need to look into Trumps long list of accusers too . 

 

Lewinsky was a 22 year old intern. Clinton was in his early 50’s, married, and the leader of the free world. Under those circumstances and given the age and power imbalance, it’s unclear whether she COULD consent. 

 

The rape allegations from Broaddrick seem very credible. Clinton is a complete scumbag.

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30 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Lewinsky was a 22 year old intern. Clinton was in his early 50’s, married, and the leader of the free world. Under those circumstances and given the age and power imbalance, it’s unclear whether she COULD consent. 

 

The rape allegations from Broaddrick seem very credible. Clinton is a complete scumbag.

 

 

I don't like Clinton and he's probably a scumbag.

But, focusing just on Lewinsky here, she was well into adulthood. She wasn't some vulnerable little girl. Women are not vulnerable by default - but that's the message I hear when I see this argument. It's very possible she knew exactly what she wanted and went after it. This is all assuming there was in no way any implied consequences given to her by Clinton if she didn't agree to it. I don't think office relationships between a boss and an inferior automatically fall under the sexual harassment/assault umbrella. They are likely to, but there are cases when both adults in that situation want it.

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I said this when Clinton was banging everyone in site while Governor, Candidate and President.  If a wife can't trust the man to stay committed to what he has promised in front of God, family and friends and to someone who he at least claims to love.....how in the hell can I trust him to tell me the truth?

Well....now we are seeing this played out again times a gazillion.  We have a guy who has cheated on every wife he has ever had....multiple times.....and we also see him lying to us on a daily basis.

 

Morals and values matter.

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Forgive me for 'pontificating' here - this isn't aimed at anyone particular but everyone in general - especially & including myself.  Here is the deal as I see it - I see this in the comments above and in other threads.  "What-about-isms" -- Clinton bad, Trump badder or visa versa.  We can allow our political biases to  blind us the reality that all is bad - not a matter of degrees but bad through and through.  It is called sin. We are afraid to call a spade a spade for want of loss - loss of a political argument, loss of an advantage, etc.  By us arguing over which is 'badder' we give cover to the lessor bad which allows some room for excuses, wiggle room for compromise, and we lesson our own sensitivity to the bad - thus we end up being indirect participants by giving cover.  I don't see either men as fully taking responsibility and humbling themselves in these situations - they have counted the political cost and believe the cost to be too high (reminds me of the 'gain the whole world and lose your soul' comment in the gospels).  Right now most of us are indignant of politicians and religious leaders who give cover to Trump with such statements like "We didn't elect a national pastor".  20 years ago it was the Dems along with their liberal & feminist friends doing the same thing wt Clinton - giving him cover.  Our compromise  due to political expediency and our personal political bias shouts out "hypocrite" when we provide cover to their improper behavior.  One of the reasons I could no longer support the Republican party as it now exists is because I could no longer tolerate the hypocrisy I saw in my own soul when I tried to defend the indefensible. 

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Democrats need to admit that Bill Clinton's serial philandering and textbook sexual harassment wouldn't survive a day in the #metoo climate, and that even feminists like Gloria Steinam did some embarrassing rationalization on his behalf back in the day. Clinton could have made a really poignant apology in the last year. He didn't. He still thinks he's running for something. Bill's arrogance can stand on its own. I'm more than willing to turn my back on him.

 

That being said, Democrats seem to agree that Clinton is too toxic to be used for this year's midterm campaigning. Al Franken was forced to resign. Supposedly liberal media icons like Harvey Weinstein, Charlie Rose, Garrison Keilor, Matt Lauerer Ryan Lizza, the news director of NPR, John Lassetter, etc, etc, all lost their jobs and considerable influence almost immediately upon the revelations going public. 

 

If you'll recall when the Weinstein revelations first broke, the conservative blogosphere wondered if the liberal hypocrites would dish out the same treatment to their beloved fundraisers, mouthpieces and Hollywood allies that Roger Ailes and Bill O'Reilly got. Well it turns out they did, and then some. So #metoo is actually notable for its lack of hypocrisy. 

 

But it also reminds me that the whole Monica Lewsinsky scandal came out of a two year search for impeachable offenses that started with Whitewater -- a 20 year old rumor that the Clinton's had profited from a politically influenced land deal in Arkansas.  Doesn't that seem quaintly low stakes compared to the far better-vetted Russia investigation we're told is a non-story and a witch hunt?

 

 

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3 hours ago, Fru said:

 

We're done here right?

 

Yeah, pretty much. 

 

2 hours ago, NM11046 said:

I'm assuming by the shear number of inflammatory topics you've started today that you had a rough weekend.  I hope your day gets better.

 

giphy-downsized-large.gif

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4 hours ago, NM11046 said:

:thumbs

  • You have no idea what he is or isn't doing in the oval.
  • The list of crimes he's committed is a lengthy one.  If we stick to just sexual assault/abuse/rape, there are 22+ women.

I'm assuming by the shear number of inflammatory topics you've started today that you had a rough weekend.  I hope your day gets better.

 

Yawn. 

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1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

 

Yawn. 

 

Well it does work both ways, you know. 

 

If Bill Clinton is a monster (and you're not getting much argument here) can I trust you'll join us in our outrage over Donald Trump?

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2 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Well it does work both ways, you know. 

 

If Bill Clinton is a monster (and you're not getting much argument here) can I trust you'll join us in our outrage over Donald Trump?

 

There is substantially less credible evidence against Trump than Clinton. And it’s hilarious how The only reason Democrats condemn Clinton now, decades after lauding him as a prince among men, is that they have to in order to mot be horribly obvious hypocrites when they condemn Trump.

 

That being said, hell yes I condemn Trump. If he sexually assaulted, sexually harassed, or even raped women, then he’s a piece of crap...just like Clinton.

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1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

 

There is substantially less credible evidence against Trump than Clinton. And it’s hilarious how The only reason Democrats condemn Clinton now, decades after lauding him as a prince among men, is that they have to in order to mot be horribly obvious hypocrites when they condemn Trump.

 

That being said, hell yes I condemn Trump. If he sexually assaulted, sexually harassed, or even raped women, then he’s a piece of crap...just like Clinton.


There's a whole crop of female Democrats (and hell, male ones as well) who weren't in office during the Clinton years who would disagree with you on the top bit.
 

But I can certainly understand where you're coming from with your disdain. I similarly feel angsty towards Boomers who feel like Trump is some kind of second coming that can save our country as it drastically tailspins out of control. 

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15 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

 

And it’s hilarious how The only reason Democrats condemn Clinton now, decades after lauding him as a prince among men, is that they have to in order to mot be horribly obvious hypocrites when they condemn Trump.

 

 

Fair point.

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16 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

 

There is substantially less credible evidence against Trump than Clinton. And it’s hilarious how The only reason Democrats condemn Clinton now, decades after lauding him as a prince among men, is that they have to in order to mot be horribly obvious hypocrites when they condemn Trump.

 

That being said, hell yes I condemn Trump. If he sexually assaulted, sexually harassed, or even raped women, then he’s a piece of crap...just like Clinton.

 

I'm not a Democrat, but I condemn him now because I was only 9-11 years old when President Clinton was having an affair with Monica Lewinsky, etc. It is not hypocrisy. Many have never "lauded him as a prince among men." Trump deserves condemnation. 

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16 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

And it’s hilarious how The only reason Democrats condemn Clinton now, decades after lauding him as a prince among men, is that they have to in order to mot be horribly obvious hypocrites when they condemn Trump.

 

So...I'm fine condemning both.

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