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Trump: More Popular than Ever


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12 minutes ago, Clifford Franklin said:

 

I don't want to go all ad hominem here, but Dinesh D'Souza was a convicted felon that Trump pardoned for no other reason than D'Souza being popular in conservative circles. It definitely helped propagate the sense of unfair victimhood sensed by many who agree with D'Souza, since Trump explicitly stated D'Souza was treated "very unfairly by our government."

 

Bo Pelini used to talk about leaders pointing the thumb. Conservatives like D'Souza should heed that advice instead of always having some convoluted explanation about how they're the victim of some liberal conspiracy. 

 

I'll try to read the piece later. Some of your points I agree with. To the bolded: I personally just feel like the needle has swung too far towards unchecked capitalism & corporations have undue influence in our lives but especially in our politics. The little guy is consistently getting shafted to better serve corporate America. I'm no raging socialist, I just think we should swing the needle back closer to the middle, which necessarily means shifting in leftward. I just want a form of capitalism that works better for more people.

Totally agree with the bold.

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19 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

 

Saying “racist” lots of times doesn’t make something or someone racist. What has Trump done that you see as racist? 

 

Trump is Racist, January 12

 

Quote

 

We can stop beating around the bush.

No more "that has racial undertones" or "he is enabling white supremacists."

We need to just call Trump what he is, a racist.

 

I'm sorry for the long post. These actions are weaved in and out of other threads in Politics & Religion, but I felt this topic deserves its own.

 

In the 1970s, the Department of Justice sued the Trumps for discrimination based on the Fair Housing Act, while Donald was President of the Trump Organization. Rental agents were instructed not to rent to blacks and to reduce the number of black tenants. Applications were marked with secret codes for minorities. Trump settled and agreed to meet certain standards. The Department of Justice renews the discrimination charges when the Trumps continue to discriminate in spite of the settlement agreement.

 

In 1989, after 5 black and Latino Harlem teenagers Harlem were accused of assaulting and raping a white woman in Central Park, Trump spent $85,000 placing full-page ads in the four daily papers in New York City, calling for the return of the death penalty. “Muggers and murderers should be forced to suffer and, when they kill, they should be executed for their crimes.” 14 years after their sentences were vacated based on DNA evidence and the detailed and accurate confession of a serial rapist named Matias Reyes, Mr. Trump has doubled down. “They admitted they were guilty. The police doing the original investigation say they were guilty. The fact that that case was settled with so much evidence against them is outrageous.”

 

 

In 1991, Trump is quoted: "“ Black guys counting my money! I hate it… Besides that, I tell you something else. I think that’s guy’s lazy. And it’s probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks.” He did not confirm the quote at the time but 7 years later said it "was probably true."

 

In 1992, a Judge found the Trump Plaza Hotel discriminated when it removed an African-American dealer from a table at the request of a wealthy player.

 

In 1993, during a Congressional hearing talking about Native American casino officials, Trumps says, "They don't look like Indians to me" and accuses them of working with organized crime. He adds that political correctness have given Native American status to some people who don’t “look like Indians.” He would renew these attacks recently against Senator Warren.

In 2000, after renewing his attacks on Native Americans, Trump agrees to apologize and pays a $250,000 for secretly buying ads against Native American-owned casinos. The ads included pictures of syringes and cocaine and asked, "Are these the neighbors we want? “

 

2011, birtherism begins. Trump leads the charge attacking our first black President's birth. He also questions Obama's placement at Columbia and Harvard and says he "should get off the basketball court."

 

In June 2013, before the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin trial, Trump tweets:

An FBI report disputes this claim.

 

In February 2015, Trump says Mexico is sending "criminals" over the border. That June, while announcing his candidacy, he now calls Mexicans coming across the border "rapists." The next month, he tweets and later deletes that Bush “has to like the Mexican illegals because of his wife,” a Mexican immigrant.

 

November 2015, after a black protester chanting “Black Lives Matter” at a Trump rally in Alabama rally was pushed and punched, Trump tweets and later deletes false statistics about the percentage of whites killed by blacks.

 

2015 to present, Muslim ban...

 

While giving a foreign policy speech in Poland in July 2017, Trump stresses the need to protect “the West, “civilization” against forces from “the South and East” that threaten western values.

 

The U.S. Department of Justice concluded that Joe Arpaio oversaw the worst pattern of racial profiling in U.S. history, and subsequently filed suit against him for unlawful discriminatory police conduct. Arpaio's office paid more than $146 million in fees, settlements, and court awards. Multiple courts find him guilty of racial profiling. A Federal court issued an injunction barring him from conducting further "immigration round-ups". Despite this, Arpaio's office continued to detain "persons for further investigation without reasonable suspicion that a crime has been or is being committed." In July 2017, he was convicted of criminal contempt of court.

 

In August 2017, a white nationalist attending a rally drove a car into a crowd, killing one protester and injuring many more. Trump condemned “this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence, on many sides.” He did not mention white supremacists or nationalists specifically.

 

December 2017, Trump says Haitians "all have AIDS." In related statements this week, Trump says he wants immigrants from (white) countries like Norway instead of "s#!tholes" like (black) Africa.

 

 

 

I should add to this list for the other racist things he's done since January, but frankly, I don't have that much time.

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3 hours ago, Clifford Franklin said:

 

I don't want to go all ad hominem here, but Dinesh D'Souza was a convicted felon that Trump pardoned for no other reason than D'Souza being popular in conservative circles. It definitely helped propagate the sense of unfair victimhood sensed by many who agree with D'Souza, since Trump explicitly stated D'Souza was treated "very unfairly by our government."

 

Bo Pelini used to talk about leaders pointing the thumb. Conservatives like D'Souza should heed that advice instead of always having some convoluted explanation about how they're the victim of some liberal conspiracy. 

 

I'll try to read the piece later. Some of your points I agree with. To the bolded: I personally just feel like the needle has swung too far towards unchecked capitalism & corporations have undue influence in our lives but especially in our politics. The little guy is consistently getting shafted to better serve corporate America. I'm no raging socialist, I just think we should swing the needle back closer to the middle, which necessarily means shifting in leftward. I just want a form of capitalism that works better for more people.

I agree with this statement and have for quite awhile.  

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Let's just assume that many conservatives would be comfortable calling the victorious postwar America under Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower a period of "Greatness."

 

It was an era of far, far higher taxes on America's wealthy.

 

Big Government was not a dirty word, probably because Big Government worked together with Capitalist America on infrastructure and technology projects that profited both. 

 

The Marshall Plan, the GI Bill and various incentive programs  was Big Government social engineering of the highest order, and created the successful middle class and working class of consumers that typically anchor the American Dream. Capitalist America never complained about this because it was good for business. 

 

The average CEO made 67 times more than his average worker. To make America that Great Again, CEOs could no longer demand compensation 1,000 times more than the average worker. 

 

We championed science and scientists and academia. America was proud of its brains. That included journalists, too.

 

We offered moral leadership to the world. It was often flawed and hypocritical, but better than a long history of superpowers. 

 

We were proud of Social Security and Medicare. We took care of our people.

 

Again, not so great if you were black, female, gay or handicapped, but if that makes MAGA folks uncomfortable we can take it off the table and simply agree that the Trump agenda is charting a course far away from what we used to call Greatness.

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20 hours ago, knapplc said:

The reason they don't answer it is because the concept behind "MAGA" is inherently racist. They either know this explicitly or implicitly, and they know that no matter how much ground they've gained electing this racist POS to the White House, the coast still isn't clear for Regular Joe's to fully embrace it.

 

So Trump does it for them by proxy. 

 

He did it with the Birther nonsense.

He did it with every policy & law of Obama's that he's torn down.

He did it when he failed to help Americans in Puerto Rico.

He did it when he denounced NFL players for kneeling.

He did it when he called countries south of the border "s#!tholes."

He did it when he referred to Hispanic immigrants as "rapists."

He did it when he promised to build a wall between America & the brown people down south.

He did it when he came up with his travel ban.

 

Every time Trump takes one more step further. Every time, his followers become more emboldened, and hopeful that they can, soon, wear their true feelings on their sleeve. 

 

It's why they're so angry all the time. Racism is based in hate. They hate anyone not like them, and that includes most certainly any White person who doesn't see the world through their albino glasses.  You see the hateful undertones in everything they do.  Every time they talk about non-Whites there's a tinge to their statements. Every time they talk to non-racist Whites, they label them. Most of the time they stick with the blanket "liberals" but sometimes it's "progressives" or whatever else they can think of to separate those who don't think like they do with their version of Americans. 

 

The real answer to those questions is the 1950s. Before the Civil Rights movement, before integration, before we lost the Vietnam War and the gays were still being kicked back into their closets. 

 

Think about who (predominantly) are wearing those MAGA hats. Baby Boomers whose most cherished memories were when they lived the carefree lives of their childhood, not paying bills, not responsible for anything, tacitly knowing they were going to inherit the world's best country. We had bragging rights all over the world after WWII. 

 

Think about one of the early fake battlegrounds of this culture war - the much decried "War on Christmas."  Christmas is the most revered time of all for these people - their little White baby Jesus all perfect & holy, not brown & thick-haired like a Levant Jew of the actual era, but someone who looks like them. All of the Christmases we've had since then have been trying to recapture the glory of their childhood. Think about the songs Christians sing to this day at Christmas - most of them haven't changed since that era.  That's why the "War on Christmas" was such a hugely successful early dog whistle. 

 

MAGA true believers want that era of America to return. They want the colored people in their place, they want no hint of any other religion tarnishing "their" country, they want TV to show homogeneous White families who can safely, casually, cast aspersions on the lesser people (it wasn't an accident that Roseanne had such a huge early return to TV).  They miss the Archie Bunkers and John Waynes of the entertainment world. They hate the liberal elites of Hollywood. 

 

That is what MAGA means. 

 

They're just too afraid to say it.  For now.

 

Sorry but this is too extreme for me. I don't like Trump and I have no problem with anyone who wants to call him racist. I think he's provided more than enough evidence to earn that moniker. But I refuse to make the leap of lumping all of his supporters in the same boat. It is one thing to say they enable him towards that end but it is rather self righteous and fraught with self serving generalizations to say that all his supporters either explicitly or implicitly know this and they are all longing for a return to some pre civil rights era of white supremacy.  Even as it is obviously true that many of his followers are racists and do realize this about him, there are others who don't consider the bigger picture and don't go beyond considering that they have personally lost ground in this country and feel they have been marginalized. Many working class people are struggling and their lot has diminished over the years. All they know or consider is that things are worse for them and they see some hope in some of the things that Trump promotes. Failing to see or acknowledge the bigger picture through the lens of their personal situation does not necessarily make them also racists. It many cases it just means that they long for improvement for their personal situation. 

 

Anyway, this is the kind of generalizing and stereotyping that I would hope people who claim to be tolerant, accepting, non-racist would avoid. It may be the case for many or even most of his supporters but I don't see how it can be stated that they "all" feel this way and other than the all too common demonizing of the enemy I fail to see how this helps sway or heal. I suspect that many people do not feel they are in fact racist and hanging that tag on them will only cause them to become defensive or withdraw from the discussion. I would prefer they are given the chance to prove the point one way or the other themselves and not just be labeled that way because of another person's actions or words.

 

 

And I would still like these questions answered by anyone who feels like Trump is making America great again-

1- What has he done that is great?

2- Where is the data that shows he's more popular than ever? (or is this just standard Trump MO, say stuff is great and popular while ignoring reality and facts)

 

Seems to me that exploring these, especially question #1, will be a lot more effective at addressing the issue and providing the real motives of their support. If a person refuses to answer specifically what it is they feel he has done that is so great and can't explain why they feel that way, it surely opens the door wide for accusations. 

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Here is a crazy on the other side who the cops need to catch.  The political climate has gotten to toxic for our own good. 

 

https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2018/06/20/manhunt-for-pennsylvania-man-accused-of-threatening-to-kill-president-trump/

Quote

 

Christy reportedly posted a social media post threatening to “put a bullet in the head of President Trump.”

The post has since been deleted.

Christy also posted about Northampton County District Attorney John Morganelli.

WNEP also reports that this isn’t the first time Christy has been in trouble for making threats.

He and his father were sentenced to probation in 2012 for making hundreds of threatening phone calls to former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin and her attorney.

 

 

and another crazy:

 

http://dailycaller.com/2018/06/20/melania-calls-secret-service-after-actor-peter-fonda-threatens-to-kidnap-barron-trump/

 

(ADHD moment: On a side note - the other day I just watched "Midway" staring Henry Fonda - Peter's dad - Peter is looking like the old guy - but I digress.)

 

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6 hours ago, TonyStalloni said:

As a country we started as a group of immigrants with little more than a dream and a work ethic.  Through toil. sweat and lost lives, every generation laid the foundation for progress and hope for a better life.  This was the pattern until we hit the Great Depression and WW2.  

 

 

This narrative 'we' being referenced doesn't sound like it accurately includes blacks, native Americans, Chinese, Japanese, and so on during that history. 

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22 minutes ago, knapplc said:

These protestations ring hollow and biased when the OP has repeatedly created inflammatory threads with nary a peep in protest. 

 

 

 

I won't deny that "some" have failed to exonerate themselves from these types of accusations. You're right in that regard. I just have a problem when someone states that "all" have the same motivation for their support of Trump. That just isn't true.

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1 hour ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

Let's just assume that many conservatives would be comfortable calling the victorious postwar America under Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower a period of "Greatness."

 

It was an era of far, far higher taxes on America's wealthy.

 

Big Government was not a dirty word, probably because Big Government worked together with Capitalist America on infrastructure and technology projects that profited both. 

 

The Marshall Plan, the GI Bill and various incentive programs  was Big Government social engineering of the highest order, and created the successful middle class and working class of consumers that typically anchor the American Dream. Capitalist America never complained about this because it was good for business. 

 

The average CEO made 67 times more than his average worker. To make America that Great Again, CEOs could no longer demand compensation 1,000 times more than the average worker. 

 

We championed science and scientists and academia. America was proud of its brains. That included journalists, too.

 

We offered moral leadership to the world. It was often flawed and hypocritical, but better than a long history of superpowers. 

 

We were proud of Social Security and Medicare. We took care of our people.

 

Again, not so great if you were black, female, gay or handicapped, but if that makes MAGA folks uncomfortable we can take it off the table and simply agree that the Trump agenda is charting a course far away from what we used to call Greatness.

 

Extremely well said.

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1 hour ago, Comfortably Numb said:

 

Sorry but this is too extreme for me. I don't like Trump and I have no problem with anyone who wants to call him racist. I think he's provided more than enough evidence to earn that moniker. But I refuse to make the leap of lumping all of his supporters in the same boat. It is one thing to say they enable him towards that end but it is rather self righteous and fraught with self serving generalizations to say that all his supporters either explicitly or implicitly know this and they are all longing for a return to some pre civil rights era of white supremacy.  Even as it is obviously true that many of his followers are racists and do realize this about him, there are others who don't consider the bigger picture and don't go beyond considering that they have personally lost ground in this country and feel they have been marginalized. Many working class people are struggling and their lot has diminished over the years. All they know or consider is that things are worse for them and they see some hope in some of the things that Trump promotes. Failing to see or acknowledge the bigger picture through the lens of their personal situation does not necessarily make them also racists. It many cases it just means that they long for improvement for their personal situation. 

 

Anyway, this is the kind of generalizing and stereotyping that I would hope people who claim to be tolerant, accepting, non-racist would avoid. It may be the case for many or even most of his supporters but I don't see how it can be stated that they "all" feel this way and other than the all too common demonizing of the enemy I fail to see how this helps sway or heal. I suspect that many people do not feel they are in fact racist and hanging that tag on them will only cause them to become defensive or withdraw from the discussion. I would prefer they are given the chance to prove the point one way or the other themselves and not just be labeled that way because of another person's actions or words.

 

 

And I would still like these questions answered by anyone who feels like Trump is making America great again-

1- What has he done that is great?

2- Where is the data that shows he's more popular than ever? (or is this just standard Trump MO, say stuff is great and popular while ignoring reality and facts)

 

Seems to me that exploring these, especially question #1, will be a lot more effective at addressing the issue and providing the real motives of their support. If a person refuses to answer specifically what it is they feel he has done that is so great and can't explain why they feel that way, it surely opens the door wide for accusations. 

 

To the bolded:

 

1. In theory I agree, but them remaining silent and saying nothing does not help them either.  It is generally thought that silence = complicity.

 

2. Hating alt-righters is nowhere near the same as alt-righters hating non-whites, non-christians, etc.  This false equivocation of being "intolerant" needs to stop.

 

And, it makes it REALLY, REALLY difficult to not call all Republicans racist when they pass laws like they did in Oklahoma and Kansas* preventing LBGT people from adopting kids.  The problem is, Republican lawmakers craft, advance, pass, and sign into law racist, bigoted, homophobic legislation like this because the over-whelming majority of Republican voters are in favor of this.  So if racist, bigoted, homophobic laws get put into place by 80% plus of Republican voters, and those who oppose it, but refuse to speak out against it, what other conclusion could a logical person infer--other than they're ALL racist--or at the least have racist sympathies or tendencies? 

 

* Cited with links elsewhere on HB.

 

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1 hour ago, Making Chimichangas said:

 

To the bolded:

 

1. In theory I agree, but them remaining silent and saying nothing does not help them either.  It is generally thought that silence = complicity.

 

2. Hating alt-righters is nowhere near the same as alt-righters hating non-whites, non-christians, etc.  This false equivocation of being "intolerant" needs to stop.

 

And, it makes it REALLY, REALLY difficult to not call all Republicans racist when they pass laws like they did in Oklahoma and Kansas* preventing LBGT people from adopting kids.  The problem is, Republican lawmakers craft, advance, pass, and sign into law racist, bigoted, homophobic legislation like this because the over-whelming majority of Republican voters are in favor of this.  So if racist, bigoted, homophobic laws get put into place by 80% plus of Republican voters, and those who oppose it, but refuse to speak out against it, what other conclusion could a logical person infer--other than they're ALL racist--or at the least have racist sympathies or tendencies? 

 

* Cited with links elsewhere on HB.

 

 

So, you agree "in theory" but choose to go in another direction anyway?

 

Sometimes....sometimes silence can mean nothing more than a person has not properly considered or evaluated a situation. Sometimes it can be evidence of just not being too sharp or of not being being exposed to reliable information or facts. There are a lot of "sometimes" that can come in to play before I would ever blanketly accuse others of being racist (or lazy blacks, or criminal Hispanics, or whatever). You can call it a false equivalency if you wish but it's all the same in my book.

 

For the most part, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck...it's a duck. I just refuse to call it a duck until I see enough evidence that it is in fact a duck. But you guys do you. It's JMO.

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13 minutes ago, Comfortably Numb said:

 

So, you agree "in theory" but choose to go in another direction anyway?

 

Sometimes....sometimes silence can mean nothing more than a person has not properly considered or evaluated a situation. Sometimes it can be evidence of just not being too sharp or of not being being exposed to reliable information or facts. There are a lot of "sometimes" that can come in to play before I would ever blanketly accuse others of being racist (or lazy blacks, or criminal Hispanics, or whatever). You can call it a false equivalency if you wish but it's all the same in my book.

 

For the most part, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck...it's a duck. I just refuse to call it a duck until I see enough evidence that it is in fact a duck. But you guys do you. It's JMO.

But just because you haven't taken the time to make sure it isn't a duck, doesn't mean it isn't a duck.

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7 minutes ago, deedsker said:

But just because you haven't taken the time to make sure it isn't a duck, doesn't mean it isn't a duck.

 

Yeeeaaaah....?

 

Not sure what your point here is. To be clear (and sticking with the analogy) I'm not saying that Trump isn't a duck. I'm saying that some of his supporters are not ducks, most assuredly not all of them are. Just as surely some of them are.

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