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Special Counsel Indicts 12 Russian Intelligence Officers for hacking into Clinton Campaign to influence the 2016 election


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The most damning and appalling things have already happened, with absolutely no consequence for Trump or the GOP. 

 

So I'm going to hold off rubbing my hands with glee.

 

I don't see any swift resolution on the legal side, and if there is not a significant surge against Republicans in the mid-terms, then this is who America is for the foreseeable future.

 

There's an increasingly good side bet that we could collapse into a Third World oligarchy,  unhindered by our traditional checks & balances. Never thought I'd type that, but can't deny the possibility. 

 

Once you're all in on Fake News, Deep State and Witch Hunt, you aren't obliged to answer to evidence. 

 

I don't know. Maybe the apologists and people on the fringes will get a conscious. Maybe someone can create a narrative that allows them to admit Trump should go, without admitting their culpability.  But it doesn't happen with Sean Hannity and Fox and Friends still on the air.  

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6 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

Not a Trump follower, nor a fan of Hillary... but have a legitimate issue with some of this: No where have I seen that the Russians made up, falsified, or planted, any of the material from the DNC or Hillary's staff, they just hacked in and released it. Was all of the released material genuine? 

Why the uproar over whether there was collusion, and barely a whimper about stopping it from happening again? We seem to be more worried about who is to blame (the Russians) than making sure it doesn't affect future elections...

 

...back to my lurking, and thanks in advance.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with this. The Russian interference was hardly unprecedented, and whatever collusion happened would likely fall in the bigger, murkier waters of Dirty Politics.

 

But there was a time when Russia hacking the U.S. election for its own political purposed would have united Americans of all persuasions. Now, only one party is calling it a distraction and a witch hunt,  blaming not the  Russians, but our own FBI and the ever-convenient bogeyman, The Deep State . 

 

I think there have been some pretty public efforts by Dems and some Republicans to raise the foreign interference issue in anticipation of future elections, and Facebook and Google were forced to take action on the Russian bot front.

 

The bigger issue really isn't Russian interference at all. It's the President of the United States declaring war on his own intelligence agencies to protect his ego and his legitimacy. That's some dangerous s#!t. 

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39 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

Not a Trump follower, nor a fan of Hillary... but have a legitimate issue with some of this: No where have I seen that the Russians made up, falsified, or planted, any of the material from the DNC or Hillary's staff, they just hacked in and released it. Was all of the released material genuine? 

Why the uproar over whether there was collusion, and barely a whimper about stopping it from happening again? We seem to be more worried about who is to blame (the Russians) than making sure it doesn't affect future elections...

 

...back to my lurking, and thanks in advance.

 

Why do you presume the Russians are solely to blame? Maybe wait for a bit before making a pronouncement like that. The investigation is still ongoing, and moving at breakneck speed. We'll find out more soon enough, likely, and it's more than a little bit possible that Americans were directly involved.  Stay tuned.

 

Was the material genuine?  That's for the DNC to confirm or deny. Likely they'll do neither, unless it becomes a matter of national security or part of a trial. Disclosing the truth or falsehood of internal, private documentation isn't something you're likely to see from any entity with qualified legal counsel. 

 

Why the uproar over whether there was collusion?  That's a question that shouldn't need to be asked or answered. 

 

Why is there barely a whimper about stopping it from happening again?  That's a question for congressional Republicans to answer. Why are they more interested in investigating Peter Strzok than Russian election interference?

 

 

Edited by knapplc
Added the word "solely" to the question about blame.
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Just now, knapplc said:

 

Why do you presume the Russians are to blame?

 

 

 

I think all 17 U.S. intelligence agencies have weighed in on the basics, and convincingly linked it to the Kremlin.  

 

There may be some surprises in the details, but the presumption is pretty solid. 

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17 minutes ago, knapplc said:

These people should shut up and stay off Twitter.

 

This time yesterday, no Russian intelligence officers were indicted.  Today they are.  Maybe be patient and wait for your turn to be indicted, Rudy.

 

 

 

Of course this is the smart narrative to take.

 

The smart narrative for stupid loyalists.

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6 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

I think all 17 U.S. intelligence agencies have weighed in on the basics, and convincingly linked it to the Kremlin.  

 

There may be some surprises in the details, but the presumption is pretty solid. 

 

I think you quoted me just about the time I realized I should have said "solely to blame."  I edited the post.

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2 minutes ago, commando said:

so...does trump go ahead and meet with putin now?    i assume he will and he will downplay this if he mentions it at all.   heck.....it wouldn't shock me if he pardons all the russians while he is there.

 

He absolutely should not, but then again, he never should have anyway. There's zero reason to meet with Putin, let alone meet with Putin just after that NATO summit, let alone meet with him alone with no witnesses.

 

 

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34 minutes ago, knapplc said:

These people should shut up and stay off Twitter.

 

This time yesterday, no Russian intelligence officers were indicted.  Today they are.  Maybe be patient and wait for your turn to be indicted, Rudy.

 

 

 

While his attitude and tactics are very frustrating, he is Trump's lawyer.  It's his job to argue that he's innocent and that starts with public perception.

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52 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

The most damning and appalling things have already happened, with absolutely no consequence for Trump or the GOP. 

 

So I'm going to hold off rubbing my hands with glee.

 

I don't see any swift resolution on the legal side, and if there is not a significant surge against Republicans in the mid-terms, then this is who America is for the foreseeable future.

 

There's an increasingly good side bet that we could collapse into a Third World oligarchy,  unhindered by our traditional checks & balances. Never thought I'd type that, but can't deny the possibility. 

 

Once you're all in on Fake News, Deep State and Witch Hunt, you aren't obliged to answer to evidence. 

 

I don't know. Maybe the apologists and people on the fringes will get a conscious. Maybe someone can create a narrative that allows them to admit Trump should go, without admitting their culpability.  But it doesn't happen with Sean Hannity and Fox and Friends still on the air.  

 

More likely I think the bolded are inseparably intertwined. Some day the apologists & truthers will wake up and realize they're in the same boat as the rest of us. They're chuckling and laughing about owning the libs today, but when all is said and done, they'll realize Trump sold us down the river to the oligarchs like the rest of us. They'll have the same boot on their throat, having forfeited yet more power to the wealthy who for all intents and purposes already run everything.

 

Those people are short-sighted and misguided.

 

Congressional Republicans? They're just playing the short game. They're convinced any action, any spin, any investigation and any propaganda that benefits the GOP as a party is worth the price. They're willing to spin and lie and mislead people to maintain or increase their own power. But they've been playing with fire playing to the worst fringes of their base for some time now. There's still hope this whole debacle inevitably blows up in their face. Ultimately, they're increasingly left catering to an ever-shrinking tent of hardcore Trumpers, cultural conservatives and single-issue voters. That coalition isn't going to hold up forever.

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3 hours ago, knapplc said:

Wow.  Great look for the MAGA heads. Keep supporting this guy.

 

 

 

 

 

Also note - Trump hasn't said one word about beefing up security of America's elections, meaning this is not only possibly going to happen again, but likely to happen again, this year.

 

 

 

You don't fix what's ultimately going to help you. 

 

The terribly toxic byproduct of driving us further divided as a nation is inconsequential. He's just going to leave it be because he perceives benefit for himself.

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4 hours ago, knapplc said:

One might conclude, hearing these allegations, that this was an act of war.

It is an act of war.  Not all war is on the battle field. Some strategically is played out by weakening the target country from within.  This was an attack on our political system clearly and its affect, by electing Trump - apparently their puppet on a string, divide us internally, weaken our standing in the world, and increase the prestige of Russia and Putin - all of which have been accomplished.

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1 hour ago, commando said:

so...does trump go ahead and meet with putin now?    i assume he will and he will downplay this if he mentions it at all.   heck.....it wouldn't shock me if he pardons all the russians while he is there.

He's got to meet with kgb contact putin so they can get their stories straight and to recognize crimea as part of the russian empire.

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2 hours ago, knapplc said:

Remember when then-candidate Trump was joking about stuff like this, and those of us with sane hearts and heads were saying things like, YOU SHOULD NOT VOTE FOR THIS GUY and the response from our MAGA friends was "But her emails!"

 

This dope was tweeting about it as it all happened.

 

 

Putin likes me.  Of course, not only childish, but also cowardly as though it is an honor to be liked by a thug like Putin. Of course, Trump is a wantabe thug so he bows down to Putin and desires his approval.    

 

I thinking the noose has gotten a bit tighter.  And if Cohen spills the beans - lookout this could cascade fairly quickly. 

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