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Breakout: Ron Brown and religion

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12 hours ago, lo country said:

Again, other than expressing his Christian views, I haven't seen anything derogatory as it relates to his treatment of those with differing views.  

As he selflessly proclaims, he does not treat people with differing opinions any differently i.e. if a player is gay he will still mentor that player as if he/she was any other. But, mentoring a potentially gay player on one hand, and then fighting to prevent gay people from equal protection under the law in another hand, sends some mixed signals.

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11 hours ago, 84HuskerLaw said:

Again, this is not a sports related debate but all the Ron Brown bashers are advocating discrimination against Christians is good because apparently NU ought not hire a Christian.   Discrimination against a protected class is not a good thing but it is one's right to like or dislike anybody for any reason.   However, the University may not choose to discriminate against Ron Brown's religion and his free exercise thereof without consequences.   Ron Brown has the exact same responsibility.   Those who seem to hate Christians need to get a life and do unto others as they would have done to them.   

 

You have spectacularly missed the point. 

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15 hours ago, 84HuskerLaw said:

all the Ron Brown bashers are advocating discrimination against Christians is good because apparently NU ought not hire a Christian.  

Wow, way to epically get everything in that wrong.

 

15 hours ago, ebohnart said:

I find it interesting that those who preach tolerance of everyone and acceptance of every person no matter what your views, are

often times the least tolerant and least accepting of those who don’t agree with them... 

There's no evidence in this thread of intolerance towards Ron Brown that I've seen. What I think is that it's a misunderstanding about free speech.

 

Here's the thing about free speech. It means you get to say whatever you want, but it does NOT mean you get protection from other people's free speech. Ron Brown can and should be judged on the things he says and does, especially in a public forum over our laws. There's no protection for Brown having to hear dissenting (or agreeing for that matter) viewpoints about his actions and words. Everyone one of us can and should be allowed to speak out about Brown's actions and words, and we in turn can be judged and spoken about by others.

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15 hours ago, southernoregonhusker said:

I couldn't care less.  The man is a bigot.  The man advocated for the legal firing of gays from jobs and the legal discrimiination against gay renters.  He further threatened eternal damnation to the council members.  There's no defending that.  People try to defend it with their "faith," but that faith was used to defend slavery.  I wonder what Ron Brown thinks about that.

 

I did snicker when I read "higher" in your post though.  

Dang just got off work when I typed that (thats my excuse anyway). But anyway besides that point I see where you are coming from however I do think the man deserves another shot and he should have every right to voice his opinion on the matter so long as he isn't putting memorial stadium as his address again etc. I understand he "represents the university" but that doesn't mean he should be silenced of his opinions because of it. If it isn't effecting his work and his players/colleagues aren't notifying other administration of discomfort towards him being there then there shouldn't be a problem with it. 

 

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15 minutes ago, FearAmeer said:

Dang just got off work when I typed that (thats my excuse anyway). But anyway besides that point I see where you are coming from however I do think the man deserves another shot and he should have every right to voice his opinion on the matter so long as he isn't putting memorial stadium as his address again etc. I understand he "represents the university" but that doesn't mean he should be silenced of his opinions because of it. If it isn't effecting his work and his players/colleagues aren't notifying other administration of discomfort towards him being there then there shouldn't be a problem with it. 

 

If you were an 18 year old gay man, maybe closeted maybe not would you feel like you could go to your AD or your head coach to let them know your  level discomfort with the man they've hired to mentor you?  

 

edit: or if you are a senior in high school, a good FB player and a person that has an openly gay sibling or friend - do you put Nebraska on your list or do you look elsewhere for school?  Somewhere that supports you and is not outwardly advocating against the ones you love?

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1 hour ago, NM11046 said:

If you were an 18 year old gay man, maybe closeted maybe not would you feel like you could go to your AD or your head coach to let them know your  level discomfort with the man they've hired to mentor you?  

 

edit: or if you are a senior in high school, a good FB player and a person that has an openly gay sibling or friend - do you put Nebraska on your list or do you look elsewhere for school?  Somewhere that supports you and is not outwardly advocating against the ones you love?

Honestly putting myself in that position and all biases aside, sexuality does not come into the picture when playing football. It is not of my concern what everyone around me thinks of gays and really shouldn't matter. If he isn't bringing it up to them or saying things about them behind their backs, it really should not be this big of a deal. No I would not take a school off of my list because of one dude who expressed his opinion that will see me once a month for mentoring. 

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17 hours ago, southernoregonhusker said:

I couldn't care less.  The man is a bigot. 

 

 

You couldn't care less that he has had a dramatic and positive impact on hundreds, maybe thousands, of young men? That's silly. You should care about that plenty, because that's something really important, and you should also let that have a proper proportionate amount of weight in your overall assessment of the man. 

 

 

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So landlord says he has had dramatic impact and positive impact on hundreds maybe thousands of young men .... FearAmeer says he may see a young man once a month for a meeting.  

 

?

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23 minutes ago, NM11046 said:

So landlord says he has had dramatic impact and positive impact on hundreds maybe thousands of young men .... FearAmeer says he may see a young man once a month for a meeting.  

 

?

Coaching vs his new position.

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So has anyone addressed how hypocritical it is for an African-American to come out against a disenfranchised minority seeking equal civil rights? 

 

Other than the Lynchburg, VA comment on page one...I’m thinking no, but I’m on mobile and may have missed a post or two. And IMO, this hypocrisy is honestly a bigger affront to man than all of the posts using the Bible as a smokescreen for bigotry and hatred. 

 

Yes we have Freedom of Speech, but not freedom from repercussions. Ron Brown was well within his rights to stand up and showcase his hypocrisy. But unless there’s some sort of genuine act of contrition on Ron Brown’s part, his past actions are in direct opposition with the University’s core values, and it’s just bad optics for the University to associate with him. 

 

(Then again, Ronnie Green has failed on upholding those values before, and I suspect he may not be as even-handed as was professed when he was hired...but that’s another discussion for another time...)

 

 

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Just wondering if anyone has considered whether there is a typo in Ron Brown’s job title? Perhaps instead of “Director of Player Development” it should read “Director of Prayer Development”? Just a thought. ;D

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11 hours ago, Landlord said:

 

 

You couldn't care less that he has had a dramatic and positive impact on hundreds, maybe thousands, of young men? That's silly. You should care about that plenty, because that's something really important, and you should also let that have a proper proportionate amount of weight in your overall assessment of the man. 

 

 

Playing devil's advocate here, although that might seem weird based on my other posts here, but maybe I mostly agree with what you're saying here. Just not sure.

 

But hypothetically, what if Ron Brown is amazing for 98% of the football players but the 2% of gay players are scared he will find out they're gay and they feel they can't open up to him at all? And any gay players from the past might still be in the closet so it's not like we would hear from them now. We've heard from one who seems to have mixed feelings.

 

To use another example, there are racists who are perfectly nice to everyone except X. Does the fact they were wonderful to all the non X people make it okay for them to fight for X to be able to be discriminated against? And maybe they would be nice to the X's faces but there is still a very hostile environment because they all know the person fought for them to be discriminated against.

 

Maybe Brown would be wonderful to any gay players who came out, but I think his being there will make it less likely any will feel comfortable to do that. So they're going to be living in fear of being found out instead. To the dude who said the players' sexuality is irrelevant (paraphrasing) that's easy to say when you're straight and there are no ramifications of walking around campus being seen with your girlfriend.

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2 hours ago, NM11046 said:

So landlord says he has had dramatic impact and positive impact on hundreds maybe thousands of young men .... FearAmeer says he may see a young man once a month for a meeting. 

 

?

 

In his current position, he'll certainly see players more than 'once a month for a meeting'. IIRC, he's running point on coordinating academic efforts for players, as well as outreach in the community (e.g. coordinating volunteer efforts and related optics).  

 

Maybe Ron could put most or all of this teeth gnashing to bed by having the team's first volunteer effort be to help out a local LGBTQIA-related charitable effort? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

 

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Would we be having this same debate if a coach had publicly stated that it was okay for a certain race or ethnicity to be discriminated against? If someone is openly racist, would we still have a dilemma talking about all of the good things that person has done for other people, or do we generally accept that open bigotry is unacceptable and we need to move on from the guy (where he would then be free to run for elected office, I suppose)?

 

In essence, is the acceptance of Ron Brown a question of how much bigotry, or what kind of bigotry, are we willing to tolerate?

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39 minutes ago, Ulty said:

Would we be having this same debate if a coach had publicly stated that it was okay for a certain race or ethnicity to be discriminated against? If someone is openly racist, would we still have a dilemma talking about all of the good things that person has done for other people, or do we generally accept that open bigotry is unacceptable and we need to move on from the guy (where he would then be free to run for elected office, I suppose)?

 

In essence, is the acceptance of Ron Brown a question of how much bigotry, or what kind of bigotry, are we willing to tolerate?

 

 

Brown would not have been hired if this was about race. Period.

 

Cue the argument that race isn't a choice and being gay is.

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41 minutes ago, Ulty said:

Would we be having this same debate if a coach had publicly stated that it was okay for a certain race or ethnicity to be discriminated against? If someone is openly racist, would we still have a dilemma talking about all of the good things that person has done for other people, or do we generally accept that open bigotry is unacceptable and we need to move on from the guy (where he would then be free to run for elected office, I suppose)?

 

In essence, is the acceptance of Ron Brown a question of how much bigotry, or what kind of bigotry, are we willing to tolerate?

Somewhat. But no human is perfect so we're going to have to accept some level of fault or imperfection in any hire.

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They can so easily defuse this situation. Looks like they may have the right idea.

 

 

Annnnnnnnnd BOOM. Another definitive statement. This is what people are looking for.

 

 

 

And I stand by my statement that this will be a nonissue in a few weeks. Take care of it correctly right away and everyone's on the same page. 

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6 hours ago, Moiraine said:

To use another example, there are racists who are perfectly nice to everyone except X. Does the fact they were wonderful to all the non X people make it okay for them to fight for X to be able to be discriminated against?

 

 

Definitely not. Ron's actions in 2012 were not at all okay, imo, but it's not fair for anyone to be assessed and defined in entirety by only the worst thing they've ever done. EVEN if they haven't publicly repented of it.

 

I think it's totally reasonable to think he shouldn't be in his position, or to speak out against his position/perspective on LGBTQ+ people and/or issues, but I think it's totally unreasonable to go, in a made up analogous and hyperbolic hypothetical, "I don't care if someone dedicated their life to saving thousands of sex trafficked victims, they once said the N-word and thus they are a trash person not deserving of respect."

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5 hours ago, Ulty said:

Would we be having this same debate if a coach had publicly stated that it was okay for a certain race or ethnicity to be discriminated against? If someone is openly racist, would we still have a dilemma talking about all of the good things that person has done for other people, or do we generally accept that open bigotry is unacceptable and we need to move on from the guy (where he would then be free to run for elected office, I suppose)?

 

In essence, is the acceptance of Ron Brown a question of how much bigotry, or what kind of bigotry, are we willing to tolerate?

Yes we would.  Or at least some of us would.

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