Write stupid laws, get stupid results - Fremont, NE edition

[knapplc]

You may remember the Fremont Kerfluffle from a few years ago.  It made national news, that a Nebraska town on the border of Mexico ( eyeroll ) would ban illegal immigrants from renting housing.  Because, being so near the border, Fremont is the hotbed of illegal immigration. Or it's a town filled with a bunch of xenophobes. But probably it's because they're on the Mexican border. Yeah. That's it.

 

Welp. Turns out the law they passed, and all the money they spent paying Kris Kobach to defend it, was worthless.  And Kobach has just gotten richer and richer from all the litigation.

 

Quote

 

Kris Kobach’s Lucrative Trail of Courtroom Defeats

 

The towns — some with budgets in the single-digit-millions — ran up hefty legal costs after hiring him to defend similar ordinances. Farmers Branch, Texas, wound up owing $7 million in legal bills. Hazleton, Penn., took on debt to pay $1.4 million and eventually had to file for a state bailout. In Fremont, Neb., the city raised property taxes to pay for Kobach’s services. None of the towns are currently enforcing the laws he helped craft.

 

... each year [2017 & 2018] he was paid a $10,000 retainer by Fremont.

 

On the surface, Kobach’s results appear better in Fremont, Neb. The city council there had rejected a similar ordinance in 2008 over fear of litigation. But the idea of an anti-immigration law was revived in 2010 and 57 percent of the town voted it in as a ballot measure.

 

The town banned landlords from renting to anyone in the country illegally and required renters to provide specific information to the police and obtain $5 occupancy licenses. The ordinance also forced city businesses to use a federal database to check the immigration status of all employees.

 

The town hired Kobach to defend the new law, which he’d had a hand in writing. “He was the author … Who better?” said Mayor Scott Getzschman, who had opposed the ordinance as a member of the city council.

 

Fremont won the right to ban undocumented immigrants from rental housing, although the provisions requiring employers to verify the status of employees were removed from the law.

 

But shortly after the city’s victory in 2014, officials realized the law was toothless: The rental application wording written by Kobach and approved by the court did not require the necessary information to determine citizenship status. The law remains unenforceable.

 

Fremont continues to retain Kobach in case new litigation arises. He has been paid more than $100,000 so far and, per his contract, will continue to be paid a $10,000 annual retainer. Getzschman says the town will reconsider its agreement if Kobach is elected governor in the fall.

 

 

 

 

 

[TGHusker]

Sounds like a lucrative deal.... for Kobach.   Pay me to help you write a stupid law/regulation, pay me  a retainer in case (actually when) you are sued for said stupid law and when you are sued, I'll really rake you over the coals when I defend the law  in court. 

[NUance]

Any idea what part of the ordinance is being challenged?  Here's Fremont's ordinance:  LINK

 

[RedDenver]

1 minute ago, NUance said:

Any idea what part of the ordinance is being challenged?  Here's Fremont's ordinance:  LINK

 

Doesn't sound like any part is being challenged currently, but it also sounds like it was a waste of time and continues to be a waste of money because it's unenforceable.

[Ulty]

Kobach wrote bigoted laws for Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrook, and by gum it put them on the map!

 

 

[funhusker]

And Scribner is going to follow suit.  

 

https://www.omaha.com/news/nebraska/nebraska-town-moves-close-to-adopting-fremont-style-housing-law/article_24714796-24fb-5733-a783-f542a26c47d9.html

 

 

[NUance]

Without commenting on whether the Fremont law is stupid or not, it stands to reason that a city 1,000 miles from Mexico could have an illegal immigrant problem.  Not too many illegal immigrants rent apartments in, say, San Diego.  Quite a few head north to where the jobs are.  New York City has 1.5 million illegal immigrants.  Fremont could have around the same percentage as NYC.  *Could.  (I don't know what the percentage is in Fremont.)

[knapplc]

3 minutes ago, NUance said:

Without commenting on whether the Fremont law is stupid or not, it stands to reason that a city 1,000 miles from Mexico could have an illegal immigrant problem.  Not too many illegal immigrants rent apartments in, say, San Diego.  Quite a few head north to where the jobs are.  New York City has 1.5 million illegal immigrants.  Fremont could have around the same percentage as NYC.  *Could.  (I don't know what the percentage is in Fremont.)

 

I broke down the demographics in this thread. From anecdotal (personal) experience, many/most of the Hispanics who work at Hormel, Fremont's largest single employer, live in the Omaha area, not in Fremont.

 

And yes, the joke about Fremont being on the border is just that, a joke. But to speak to some of the locals, you'd think the town was overrun.  It's not - it's 85% White.

 

 

 

 

15 minutes ago, funhusker said:

And Scribner is going to follow suit.  

 

https://www.omaha.com/news/nebraska/nebraska-town-moves-close-to-adopting-fremont-style-housing-law/article_24714796-24fb-5733-a783-f542a26c47d9.html

 

 

 

 

RE: Scribner - "The population of Scribner, NE is 93.4% White, 3.7% Two+, and 2.18% Hispanic. 1.81% of the people in Scribner, NE speak a non-English language, and 100% are U.S. citizens."

Scribner is a town of less than 1,000 people. There are twenty Hispanics in Scribner.  Twenty.

 

[NUance]

Is it bad for Fremont to not want illegal aliens renting in their city?  What if illegal aliens not paying taxes results in tax increases in Fremont?  Are the tax payers of Fremont just supposed to suck it up, and pay without questioning it?  

 

(I realize the fact I've raised these questions will be unpopular with some on this board.  But so be it.)

[knapplc]

3 minutes ago, NUance said:

Is it bad for Fremont to not want illegal aliens renting in their city?  What if illegal aliens not paying taxes results in tax increases in Fremont?  Are the tax payers of Fremont just supposed to suck it up, and pay without questioning it? 

 

 

How would illegal aliens not pay taxes? 

[RedDenver]

4 minutes ago, NUance said:

Is it bad for Fremont to not want illegal aliens renting in their city?  What if illegal aliens not paying taxes results in tax increases in Fremont?  Are the tax payers of Fremont just supposed to suck it up, and pay without questioning it?  

 

(I realize the fact I've raised these questions will be unpopular with some on this board.  But so be it.)

Except they do pay taxes:

https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/how-do-undocumented-immigrants-pay-federal-taxes-an-explainer/

https://www.vox.com/2018/4/13/17229018/undocumented-immigrants-pay-taxes

[Ulty]

18 minutes ago, NUance said:

Is it bad for Fremont to not want illegal aliens renting in their city? 

 

Depends on the motivations behind their desires/fears.

 

What if

illegal aliens not paying taxes prolonged litigation and an unenforceable law results in tax increases in Fremont?  Are the tax payers of Fremont just supposed to suck it up, and pay without questioning it?  

[NUance]

22 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Except they do pay taxes:

https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/how-do-undocumented-immigrants-pay-federal-taxes-an-explainer/

https://www.vox.com/2018/4/13/17229018/undocumented-immigrants-pay-taxes

 

The problem with this topic is that there is a large amount of misinformation out there.  From both sides.  

 

Yes, some illegal aliens do pay taxes.  You generally have at least some taxes withheld if you hold a job.  And some illegal aliens even file tax returns aside from what is withheld from their paychecks.  I found this at Vox:  

Quote

 

The best estimates come from research by the Institute of Taxation and Economic Policy, a Washington, DC, think tank, which suggests that about half of undocumented workers in the United States file income tax returns. The most recent IRS data, from 2015, shows that the agency received 4.4 million income tax returns from workers who don’t have Social Security numbers, which includes a large number of undocumented immigrants. That year, they paid $23.6 billion in income taxes.  LINK

 

That works out to be $5,363 in personal taxes per tax return vs. about $10,500 per return overall--or about $2,950 per illegal immigrant worker ($23.6 billion divided by 8 million illegal immigrant workers).   It sounds reasonable.  BUT the numbers Vox trots out (4.4 million tax returns paying $23.6 billion) include a lot of tax returns from people other than illegal aliens.  In other words, it's a bit misleading.  (I looked at Vox because I thought it would not be misleading.  Heh.) 

 

A CNN article quoting a PEW Research study says:  

Quote

 

Out of the nearly 11.1 million undocumented immigrants estimated to be living in the U.S., Pew Research projected that there were about 8 million in the workforce in 2014.

Nearly half, or 3.4 million, of those workers paid Social Security taxes, according to 2014 estimates from the Social Security administration. And while the agency doesn't have a figure for how much this group paid in taxes that year, it said that unauthorized immigrant workers and their employers contributed $13 billion in payroll taxes in 2010, its most current estimate.  LINK

 

 

If we look at this source we get $1,625 per illegal immigrant worker ($13 billion divided by 8 million).  

 

I'm guessing the true number is somewhere between the two figures above.  Perhaps in the neighborhood of $2,000 per illegal immigrant worker.  For federal taxes.  I wonder if the rate of tax collection for state taxes is the same?  I dunno.  

 

 

Note:  The Vox number are from 2015.  The CNN/Pew numbers are 2014.   A tiny fraction of the difference can be attributed to the different years.  

[funhusker]

1 hour ago, NUance said:

Is it bad for Fremont to not want illegal aliens renting in their city?  What if illegal aliens not paying taxes results in tax increases in Fremont?  Are the tax payers of Fremont just supposed to suck it up, and pay without questioning it?  

 

(I realize the fact I've raised these questions will be unpopular with some on this board.  But so be it.)

???  It probably won’t be a popular take because it doesn’t make much sense.

 

No renters (legal or not) pays property taxes directly. But the property owners do. Steady renters will create revenue and make the property worth more generatin more tax revenue. On the flipside, empty apartments can lead to blight and tax loss.

 

[knapplc]

To be clear, Fremont already increased their property taxes to cover legal fees associated with this law. 

 

And from that second link, there's this:
 

 

Quote

 

Fremont also is setting aside a portion of its levy - 3.75 cents this year - for defense of its illegal immigration ordinance.

 

Dodge County Supervisor Paul Marsh cautioned there are other factors affecting levies that differ by locality.

 

"As an example," Marsh said, "Norfolk is in Madison, and Madison County is in a commissioner type county government that doesn't have townships, and that makes a difference.

 

"When you look at comparisons of communities, Norfolk and Kearney have had a better ability to create a fairly decent tax base on sales taxes because they serve a regional area. Grand Island would be another one perhaps," Marsh said. "That's one of the things that kind of hurts Fremont a little, the migration of sales tax dollars to the east. So it varies from one community to another.

 

"The bottom line is whether you're still getting the same services for a competitive tax price," he said.

 

 

 

Demographic breakdown of Fremont, Norfolk, Kearney and Grand Island:

• The population of Fremont, NE is 82.2% White, 14.7% Hispanic, and 1.32% Two+. 13.7% of the people in Fremont, NE speak a non-English language, and 93.7% are U.S. citizens.
• The population of Grand Island, NE is 64.8% White, 29.6% Hispanic, and 2.46% Black. 24.9% of the people in Grand Island, NE speak a non-English language, and 88.1% are U.S. citizens.
• The population of Kearney, NE is 87.3% White, 7.84% Hispanic, and 1.86% Asian. 7.15% of the people in Kearney, NE speak a non-English language, and 97% are U.S. citizens.
• The population of Norfolk, NE is 80.4% White, 13.5% Hispanic, and 1.71% Native. 12.1% of the people in Norfolk, NE speak a non-English language, and 95.4% are U.S. citizens.

Doesn't seem to be a correlation between larger Hispanic populations in those meat-packing towns and lower services.