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2 hours ago, knapplc said:

 

Come on. He does things on a daily basis that would have been an outrage during any other presidency. His tweets alone would have been a massive scandal.

 

We're the country who freaked out when a president wore a tan suit.  We're the country who freaked out when some politicians failed to wear a lapel flag. We're the country who had a conniption when a president landed on an aircraft carrier.

 

Trump is no more a victim of artificial outrage than any other president. Think about where that narrative comes from.

 

 

 

People rail against and insult and dismiss Trump based off of things as trivial and unimportant as the tan suit/lapel flag all the time. I agree Trump is no more of a victim of artificial outrage than any other President. But all other Presidents have been targets (I won't say victims, that doesn't have the right connotation) of a certain extent of artificial outrage. Trump is too.

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3 minutes ago, Landlord said:

 

 

 

People rail against and insult and dismiss Trump based off of things as trivial and unimportant as the tan suit/lapel flag all the time. I agree Trump is no more of a victim of artificial outrage than any other President. But all other Presidents have been targets (I won't say victims, that doesn't have the right connotation) of a certain extent of artificial outrage. Trump is too.

 

This is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Even if, arguendo, Trump gets grief for trivial things, he's earned more grief than he actually gets.

 

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34 minutes ago, knapplc said:

This is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Even if, arguendo, Trump gets grief for trivial things, he's earned more grief than he actually gets.

 

 

It's not rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic to the people who disagree with you/us, imo. People who come to different conclusions than you will jump at any sign of hypocrisy or inconsistency as a good and legitimate reason to believe that your opinions and perspective obviously can't be trusted, which hurts any efforts to actually change minds. Which is what I actually try to do (maybe not so much all the time on messageboards, but in general). 

 

The amount of grief/outrage/criticism/condemnation that somehow deserves is pretty irrelevant in the context of this conversation - what's way more important is that it's all appropriately allocated to areas and topics that actually deserve it. For example, demonstrating Trump's history of racist behavior and statements is well and good. Calling Trump a bona fide Klan member, white supremacist, or a Nazi will just make sure that nobody listens to you. Exposing Trump's administration's harmful actions dismantling LGBTQ health initiatives is crucial and important - saying that Trump wants to rid America of all gay and trans people is unfounded sensationalism.

 

You and I know very well examples of people on this board who can't maintain an accurate level of legitimate criticism and how their arguments fall on deaf ears. 

 

 

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I agree with the premise he lives under no more of a microscope than any other president. By virtue of being president, what you do is news. If anything, the major news channels have a tendency to use every little thing about presidents in general as filler if there is no other major news. I've got my own beefs with TV news and way they could better serve the country as a whole, but none of it is unique to Trump.

 

But there are a few aspects of this moment in time that are different. For one, Trump is guy who obtained his fame by playing a rich guy on TV, and he's got a long, documented history of wanting to be the center of attention whenever possible. In that sense, he brings some of it on himself. He wants day to day life to be the Trump show because he loves the attention.

 

Also, I think his base, moreso than that of past presidents, misunderstood the microscope ALL presidents live under. They feel uniquely aggrieved in thinking Trump unfairly receives critical news coverage, when in reality that's just how we cover presidents in general.

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12 minutes ago, Landlord said:

 

 

It's not rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic to the people who disagree with you/us, imo. People who come to different conclusions than you will jump at any sign of hypocrisy or inconsistency as a good and legitimate reason to believe that your opinions and perspective obviously can't be trusted, which hurts any efforts to actually change minds. Which is what I actually try to do (maybe not so much all the time on messageboards, but in general). 

 

The amount of grief/outrage/criticism/condemnation that somehow deserves is pretty irrelevant in the context of this conversation - what's way more important is that it's all appropriately allocated to areas and topics that actually deserve it. For example, demonstrating Trump's history of racist behavior and statements is well and good. Calling Trump a bona fide Klan member, white supremacist, or a Nazi will just make sure that nobody listens to you. Exposing Trump's administration's harmful actions dismantling LGBTQ health initiatives is crucial and important - saying that Trump wants to rid America of all gay and trans people is unfounded sensationalism.

 

You and I know very well examples of people on this board who can't maintain an accurate level of legitimate criticism and how their arguments fall on deaf ears. 

 

 

 

Of course the only relevant opinions are those derived from facts, and of course nobody should be spreading misinformation (ie: "Trump is a bona fide member of the Klan"). I'm with you there.

 

I don't think misinformation about Trump is rampant here. It is "out there," but not here. Here, thankfully, the voices I listen to most are concerned with providing legit sources for the things they post here. That's what makes a person respectable when all you have are black-and-white words on a screen. 

 

Inevitably there will be people who pass along misinformation, or who make claims that simply aren't true. Such things cannot be stopped from happening.

 

Anyone who refuses to condemn Trump because of the minuscule amount of misinformation on these boards would never have condemned him anyway.  And if you still need your mind changed, or feel the need to play devil's advocate, at this stage of the game, then you're too far gone to care about on this topic.

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Nobody's ever too far gone! You yourself over the last 10 years have watched me dive deeper and deeper into exclusive religious fundamentalism, and come out the other side inclusive and liberated. Because of sound arguments, good storytelling, and intellectual integrity on the part of people I disagreed with, a lot of that even right here on huskerboard. 5 years ago me would look at today me with horror and sadness :lol: 

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I think Trump makes a big mistake with all the tweeting . Instead of working with his advisors to put out a well thought out message,  he fires out far too many Ill advised, unfiltered , unchecked, 3am tweets that can’t be taken back . Then he has to spend too much time trying to defend and deny things he probably shouldn’t have said in the first place . I think other presidents were better at using the media to their advantage , controlling what , and how much info reaches the general public . Trump goes directly to the public with everything so in that respect he does bring a lot of things on himself . 

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5 hours ago, Big Red 40 said:

I think Trump makes a big mistake with all the tweeting . Instead of working with his advisors to put out a well thought out message,  he fires out far too many Ill advised, unfiltered , unchecked, 3am tweets that can’t be taken back . Then he has to spend too much time trying to defend and deny things he probably shouldn’t have said in the first place . I think other presidents were better at using the media to their advantage , controlling what , and how much info reaches the general public . Trump goes directly to the public with everything so in that respect he does bring a lot of things on himself . 

This is 100% true.  But I laughed really hard when I read it.  

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On 8/7/2018 at 1:23 PM, NUance said:

Okay, I guess I sort of got this thread off on a tangent about asbestos, and the differing risks depending upon its form and use.  

 

The real point of this thread is that once again Donald Trump undertakes a policy that benefits Russia.  Carry on. 

You forgot this: :backtotopic

 

I do find it alarming that a long standing EPA policy was so easily reversed and how quickly the Russian company gives thanks.  Another one of those follow the bouncing ball moments.

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21 hours ago, Landlord said:

Nobody's ever too far gone! You yourself over the last 10 years have watched me dive deeper and deeper into exclusive religious fundamentalism, and come out the other side inclusive and liberated. Because of sound arguments, good storytelling, and intellectual integrity on the part of people I disagreed with, a lot of that even right here on huskerboard. 5 years ago me would look at today me with horror and sadness :lol: 

Define inclusive and liberated:D  (ok I'm derailing the thread).  We are all on a journey.  I relate to what you are saying - 5 years ago I was a Glenn Beck & Rush listening, Fox watching fan ... not so much anymore.  Now if I happen to hear them, I have a much more discerning ear. 

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On 8/14/2018 at 1:30 PM, Landlord said:

Nobody's ever too far gone! You yourself over the last 10 years have watched me dive deeper and deeper into exclusive religious fundamentalism, and come out the other side inclusive and liberated. Because of sound arguments, good storytelling, and intellectual integrity on the part of people I disagreed with, a lot of that even right here on huskerboard. 5 years ago me would look at today me with horror and sadness :lol: 

Now if we can just get you to change your avatar.

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