What Did We Learn? Michigan

[Hedley Lamarr]

2 minutes ago, Nebhawk said:

Once again just because we are Nebraska, doesn't mean we were getting anything close to top notch talent on this  roster in the last few years, 10+ years.  That thought process I have heard over and over each season after we get our rears kicked.  Then I would read on here and in the papers that our coaches weren't getting enough out of their players.  Some of that was true, but I think you are seeing that lack of talent and depth is why we were unable to compete with Ohio St and others in the last few years, not all coaching.  So that thought process has now taken effect before Frost even Coached a game here, when I was hearing predictions of 9-10 wins this season.  

 

Bottom line is we haven't had elite talent on this hallowed grounds since Dr. Tom retired.  We haven't been feared on anyones schedule since then either.  Patience.  

There are some thing we can blame on talent etc and I do think we are not as talented as we think we are. You do have to wonder how teams that recruit exponentially worse than us over the years continue to have better on field results. Obviously it is culture and development that allows this to happen. I would argue we have recruited more raw talent than many of the teams in the B1G to at minimum be competitive in most games. The issue is when you have players that do not progress during several years. Where did we improve with Riley in regards to development? We didnt. We already know he ruined any glimmer of culture we had prior to his arrival, we also know that the culture he came into was not perfect either. The combination of Bo's last couple years where he began to show signs of slipping with results and then Riley driving it down to Beaver expectations is why we find ourselves here. It will get better but it will also take time, 

[Nebhawk]

Have we recruited Big 10 caliber talent?  Even if we think we have recruited better talent overall than some teams in the past, it hasn't been up to Big 10 standards.  I don't care about equalling the talent at Minnesota or Iowa, we want to equal Wisconsin and the other upper echelon teams in the Big 10.  

[Nebhawk]

4 minutes ago, Hedley Lamarr said:

There are some thing we can blame on talent etc and I do think we are not as talented as we think we are. You do have to wonder how teams that recruit exponentially worse than us over the years continue to have better on field results. Obviously it is culture and development that allows this to happen. I would argue we have recruited more raw talent than many of the teams in the B1G to at minimum be competitive in most games. The issue is when you have players that do not progress during several years. Where did we improve with Riley in regards to development? We didnt. We already know he ruined any glimmer of culture we had prior to his arrival, we also know that the culture he came into was not perfect either. The combination of Bo's last couple years where he began to show signs of slipping with results and then Riley driving it down to Beaver expectations is why we find ourselves here. It will get better but it will also take time, 

Did you see any of our players that could outrun, out gain or out perform those we played against in the Big House?  Anyone?  Its a talent issue first.  It has always been that.  If the other team is faster and more physical, they more times than not will win.  Does anyone on here think that Saban's Bama teams win just soley based on his coaching?  He has a roster that on average is 2 deep at almost each postion with NFL draft picks.  Did he win championships at Michigan St, with lesser talent on that roster?    It takes both talent and coaching, but talent comes first.

[Hedley Lamarr]

3 minutes ago, Nebhawk said:

Did you see any of our players that could outrun, out gain or out perform those we played against in the Big House?  Anyone?  Its a talent issue first.  It has always been that.  If the other team is faster and more physical, they more times than not will win.  Does anyone on here think that Saban's Bama teams win just soley based on his coaching?  He has a roster that on average is 2 deep at almost each postion with NFL draft picks.  Did he win championships at Michigan St, with lesser talent on that roster?    It takes both talent and coaching, but talent comes first.

What was it against Colorado and Troy? What about Wisconsin, Iowa, Northwestern etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.....Sabans Bama team went 7-6 his first year....guess what happened in just 1 year of his recruiting? 12-2, you think that happened strictly because of his first full cycle of recruiting or do you think he was able to establish his culture during the first year and also develop the talent on the roster. Alabama had recruiting classes that ranked similar to ours the last 5 years when Saban came. We are talented enough to not lose as badly as we did yesterday. We werent talented enough to win though. 

[Hedley Lamarr]

14 minutes ago, Nebhawk said:

Have we recruited Big 10 caliber talent?  Even if we think we have recruited better talent overall than some teams in the past, it hasn't been up to Big 10 standards.  I don't care about equalling the talent at Minnesota or Iowa, we want to equal Wisconsin and the other upper echelon teams in the Big 10.  

Yes we have recruited B1G talent considering we consistently rank in the top half of the conference in recruiting rankings every single year.....unless you want to say that the recruiting services are only wrong about the talent of the kids we recruit and not others....

[Making Chimichangas]

39 minutes ago, Nebhawk said:

Cupboard is bare folks!  We lack talent and depth.  This program was allowed to sink to new levels under Riley and his staff, even worse than they sank under Callahan.  Callahan at least recruit some talent, NFL talent.  Pelini at least got to coach some NFL players when he started.

 

Frost inherited a team that went 4-8 last season.  No matter what he recruited in here in the last 8 months, those players are not ready.

 

I learned that Michigan is head and shoulders more talented, experienced, and coached at this current time.  Harbaugh is in his 4th season.  Key is being patient enough for Frost to get this thing turned in that direction.  Once again, Harbaugh didn't inherit and bad roster.  He had some NFL talent upon arrival.  Nebraska has had 3 coaches in the last 5 seasons, 3 different systems, 3 different ways of recruiting.

 

Basically we are in a complete rebuild, retool, and reload for the future.  2001 was the last year we really were relevant, and even then we didn't have enough to compete with Miami.  This slide didn't happen overnight folks, its taken 17 years to reach rock bottom.  Bad decision after bad decision on hiring and firing has led to this and now if we don't stay the course, I think this thing is finished.

 

I don't wanna say if Frost doesn't fix this mess that Nebraska is "finished" because that just seems to negative in tone.

 

But otherwise, I completely agree with the rest of what you said.

[junior4949]

1 hour ago, Nebhawk said:

Once again just because we are Nebraska, doesn't mean we were getting anything close to top notch talent on this  roster in the last few years, 10+ years.  That thought process I have heard over and over each season after we get our rears kicked.  Then I would read on here and in the papers that our coaches weren't getting enough out of their players.  Some of that was true, but I think you are seeing that lack of talent and depth is why we were unable to compete with Ohio St and others in the last few years, not all coaching.  So that thought process has now taken effect before Frost even Coached a game here, when I was hearing predictions of 9-10 wins this season.  

 

Bottom line is we haven't had elite talent on this hallowed grounds since Dr. Tom retired.  We haven't been feared on anyones schedule since then either.  Patience.  

 

The bolded is wrong.  Suh was elite talent.  He should have won the Hypseman.  He's one of the highest ever paid defensive players in the NFL.  You can't tell me that teams weren't scared to face that 09' defense.   

[In the Deed the Glory]

12 hours ago, MountainMan said:

That doesn’t exist in state. It just doesn’t. 

This is such a load of horse s#!t.

 

Tell that to Noah Fant or Harrison Phillips.

 

You mean to tell me those two wouldn't have pulled others up if we'd have gotten them?

 

Guys like Cam Jurgens and Nick Henrich will start this again.  Frost won't miss on these guys.  I can't believe he got both Burke kids, I can tell you that was an UN-FRICKING-BELIEVABLE recruiting job.  Nebraska was so far behind it was laughable to bring them up before Frost and Ruud came on board.

 

[In the Deed the Glory]

1 hour ago, Nebhawk said:

Once again just because we are Nebraska, doesn't mean we were getting anything close to top notch talent on this  roster in the last few years, 10+ years.  That thought process I have heard over and over each season after we get our rears kicked.  Then I would read on here and in the papers that our coaches weren't getting enough out of their players.  Some of that was true, but I think you are seeing that lack of talent and depth is why we were unable to compete with Ohio St and others in the last few years, not all coaching.  So that thought process has now taken effect before Frost even Coached a game here, when I was hearing predictions of 9-10 wins this season.  

 

Bottom line is we haven't had elite talent on this hallowed grounds since Dr. Tom retired.  We haven't been feared on anyones schedule since then either.  Patience.  

 

Eric Crouch won the Heisman Trophy for Christ sake.  Ndamunkong Suh?  LaVonte David?  Ameer Abdullah?  Ask Colt McCoy if he feared Nebraska before that Big XII title game.  I bet in 2010 after Kansas State and Missouri people feared us on the schedule.

 

Stop exaggerating to make your point.  We will probably never reproduce the 1990s again.

[r06ue1]

Repost here, accidentally replied under wrong post earlier.  

 

Found this on an article earlier.  

 

"Frost went undefeated at UCF last season, and the reason why his success has yet to translate to Nebraska is simple – he has a roster of inferior talent recruited for a completely different system. "

 

Another good example of how long it can take to change a losers mentality is Texas, they are only now beginning to turn it around, beating TCU for the first time after losing four straight.  We need to have patience, let Frost get HIS players here and see what the results are.  

 

[Landlord]

11 hours ago, gossamorharpy said:

Wisconsin has consistently proved this is not true. And before anyone says they haven’t won a title- kudos. But I’d bet my life savings everyone on this board would take Wisconsin’s run over the past decade 

 

 

Yeah, and then after that decade we'd get sick and tired of not winning championships and we'd be even angrier.

[Jeepy]

14 minutes ago, Landlord said:

 

 

Yeah, and then after that decade we'd get sick and tired of not winning championships and we'd be even angrier.

 

Likely true, but I keep thinking of how our expectations have morphed downward since the late 90s.  Remember?  From Solich to Callahan to Pelini to Riley our anger went from national championship anxiety to conference contender anxiety to just making it to any bowl game anxiety to just a winning season PLEASE to now:  Can we win a game?  Two games?

 

What the hell?

[Husker03]

40 minutes ago, Jeepy said:

 

Likely true, but I keep thinking of how our expectations have morphed downward since the late 90s.  Remember?  From Solich to Callahan to Pelini to Riley our anger went from national championship anxiety to conference contender anxiety to just making it to any bowl game anxiety to just a winning season PLEASE to now:  Can we win a game?  Two games?

 

What the hell?

They’ll morph right back up as we ascend again.  It’s not a reflection of a defeated fan base in a negative way, it’s just we have to deal with the reality as it is right now. We can expect to be in the title game this year all we want but it doesn’t make a clown stomp at the big house hurt any less. 

[Nebhawk]

2 hours ago, junior4949 said:

 

The bolded is wrong.  Suh was elite talent.  He should have won the Hypseman.  He's one of the highest ever paid defensive players in the NFL.  You can't tell me that teams weren't scared to face that 09' defense.   

1 player in the last 21 years is all most can come up with as being elite from our program.  Suh was great, he was also a Callahan recruit.  

[Nebhawk]

1 hour ago, In the Deed the Glory said:

 

Eric Crouch won the Heisman Trophy for Christ sake.  Ndamunkong Suh?  LaVonte David?  Ameer Abdullah?  Ask Colt McCoy if he feared Nebraska before that Big XII title game.  I bet in 2010 after Kansas State and Missouri people feared us on the schedule.

 

Stop exaggerating to make your point.  We will probably never reproduce the 1990s again.

I am glad I put up 10+ years, not 18+ years!  Everytime people try to prove we have ample talent, they actually prove how far  off our rosters have been for the last few years.