Tim Beck

[Count 'Bility]

You honestly believe that Martinez IS NOT one of the best QB's to ever play at Nebraska? I would like to hear you defend that.... Also, isn't longevity a quality in most great QB's.

Most college QBs don't have the luxury of starting more or less four full seasons because they wait around behind other guys. Hedley's point isn't about the 'longevity' being good or bad, but merely that Taylor is hitting the record books in part due to having a lot more games started than most of the guys whose career numbers he is surpassing.

Can you hold that against a guy? I say no, especially when we consider Frazier, and Crouch to be our two best QB's ever, and they both started 4 years....

Except Crouch wasn't the starting qb in 98 and wasn't the starter until Texas.

And Frazier didn't start until mid season his freshman year, and missed most of his junior year because of blood clots. I also remember TO pulling Frazier often so Frankie London could develop. Frazier was pulled in the second quarter by plan a few games so London could get reps when the game was still in doubt.

Frankie London was never part of the program during Frazier's career. You may be thinking of Scott Frost. London was the solid #2 behind Frost as a true freshman in 97. Berringer and Turman were perennially Frazier's backups.

 

[jmfb]

I support Martinez, different kid

He gets too much blame when we lose

But he is far too careless with the football and doesnt move well laterally in the "pocket". Great straight ahead acceleration, not so great laterally, he doesnt make people miss or break tackles. His option reads are pretty poor. His big plays are finding a crease and putting the pedal to the floor- gets from 0- top end VERY quickly, as fast of faster than anyone Ive seen here

Passing is getting better, no doubt much more accurate this year

He is getting better at throwing the ball away, something he never did in years 1-2

His numbers are inflated due to lots of playing time earlier Quarterbacks never got, due to competition AND blowout scores

I have missed just a handful of home games starting in 1970- been to a lot of out of town games, bowls etc. Seen it first hand

My rankings on QBs as of now:

Frazier

Gill

Tagge

Frost

Crouch

It will depend on next year as to where he ends up

As of now- not in any special order he is in this group:

Humm

Ferragamo

Steve Taylor

Gdowski, Z Taylor, Ganz were probably at bottom end of this grouping IMO but only got limited playing time

 

[ZRod]

I support Martinez, different kid

He gets too much blame when we lose

But he is far too careless with the football and doesnt move well laterally in the "pocket". Great straight ahead acceleration, not so great laterally, he doesnt make people miss or break tackles. His option reads are pretty poor. His big plays are finding a crease and putting the pedal to the floor- gets from 0- top end VERY quickly, as fast of faster than anyone Ive seen here

Passing is getting better, no doubt much more accurate this year

He is getting better at throwing the ball away, something he never did in years 1-2

His numbers are inflated due to lots of playing time earlier Quarterbacks never got, due to competition AND blowout scores

It will depend on next year as to where he ends up

I'm not sure why people still think this, I would have figured that scramble in the CCG would have put this to rest. Yes the latter half of his freshman and all of his sophomore year he was less than mobile in the pocket, but that was more than likely due to injures in both lower limbs. No Martinez isn't going to juke you out of your shoes like Denard or Miller but he is elusive and he has proven this year that he can escape the pocket and break tackles.

And as for your second to last line there, who cares if the other guys were pulled or not. Taylor broke all these records in just 3 years with less talent around him than the teams of the 90's and early 2000's. He earned everyone of those records and it pisses me off when people try to discredit that. You don't just stumble your way into the record books, it takes some talent and a lot of hard work.

 

[HUSKER FREAK]

Rightfully so IMO. We need to keep Beck around as long as we can. Another two to three years would be great before he (undoubtedly) moves on to a higher postion. This, would help get all the pieces together that the coaches have been working so hard to get to. They are doing this the right way and the right way takes time. We will see NU back on top consistently in the near future, but we need a rew more years out of Beck for sure to keep things going the right dirrection.

 

[Landlord]

Cut it down to just what you would like me to answer. Too much to read and comment on. If I wanted to get a novel I would go Barnes &Noble

You can start with these.

Hedley, you don't think Taylor is one of the greatest NU quarterbacks ever? Why not? Where is the cutoff point for greatness? The 5th greatest? The 10th? 20th? Being great isn't definable, nor is "one of the greatest". Opinions are well and good, but keep in mind that you're arguing and getting worked up over something arbitrary that is perceived very differently by different people.

The definition of the word average is the mean, or middle, when compared with all other entries into a data pool. Since he ranks 37th in the nation out of 116 entries for quarterback rating, he is quite above average as a quarterback. Furthermore Taylor was 4-2 this season in games when trailing by multiple scores, against the 9th, 19th, 20th, 31st and 32nd ranked defenses in terms of points allowed per game. Since our offense was 27th in points scored per game, statistically speaking, he has success more often than he falls apart when facing teams with equal or greater skill.

Cody Green was the 6th rated Dual-Threat quarterback, 19th in the state of Texas a quarterback recruit, and 173rd in the country as a quarterback recruit. Brion Carnes was the 7th rated Dual-Threat quarterback, and 44th in the state of Florida as a quarterback recruit. Jamal Turner was the 7th rated Dual-Threat quarterback, 19th in the state of Texas a quarterback recruit, and 140th in the nation as a quarterback recruit. Tommy Armstrong was the 9th rated Dual-Threat quarterback and 49th in the state of Texas as a quarterback recruit.

Once again, your point is demonstrably false. NU has recruited all quarterback prospects except for one (Taylor Martinez).

It is possible to compare certain elements between two things while dismissing other elements. Here, let me show you. For example, I am a white male. Brett Farve is also a white male. Therefore, in this regard, Brett Favre and I are similar. Another example, Brett Favre sends penis pictures to women. It wouldn't surprise me if you did also. Therefore, you may or may not be similar to Brett Favre in this regard.

That being said, obviously nobody was comparing Taylor to Brett in terms of future professional success, but only in gunslinger mentality as quarterbacks.

 

[CheeseHusker]

All ridiculousness aside, Tim Beck did a great job this year and I'm very happy with the direction Nebraska is going offensively.

Just need to eliminate the turnovers and penalties.

 

[Landlord]

Cut it down to just what you would like me to answer. Too much to read and comment on. If I wanted to get a novel I would go Barnes &Noble

You can start with these.

Hedley, you don't think Taylor is one of the greatest NU quarterbacks ever? Why not? Where is the cutoff point for greatness? The 5th greatest? The 10th? 20th? Being great isn't definable, nor is "one of the greatest". Opinions are well and good, but keep in mind that you're arguing and getting worked up over something arbitrary that is perceived very differently by different people.

The definition of the word average is the mean, or middle, when compared with all other entries into a data pool. Since he ranks 37th in the nation out of 116 entries for quarterback rating, he is quite above average as a quarterback. Furthermore Taylor was 4-2 this season in games when trailing by multiple scores, against the 9th, 19th, 20th, 31st and 32nd ranked defenses in terms of points allowed per game. Since our offense was 27th in points scored per game, statistically speaking, he has success more often than he falls apart when facing teams with equal or greater skill.

Cody Green was the 6th rated Dual-Threat quarterback, 19th in the state of Texas a quarterback recruit, and 173rd in the country as a quarterback recruit. Brion Carnes was the 7th rated Dual-Threat quarterback, and 44th in the state of Florida as a quarterback recruit. Jamal Turner was the 7th rated Dual-Threat quarterback, 19th in the state of Texas a quarterback recruit, and 140th in the nation as a quarterback recruit. Tommy Armstrong was the 9th rated Dual-Threat quarterback and 49th in the state of Texas as a quarterback recruit.

Once again, your point is demonstrably false. NU has recruited all quarterback prospects except for one (Taylor Martinez).

It is possible to compare certain elements between two things while dismissing other elements. Here, let me show you. For example, I am a white male. Brett Farve is also a white male. Therefore, in this regard, Brett Favre and I are similar. Another example, Brett Favre sends penis pictures to women. It wouldn't surprise me if you did also. Therefore, you may or may not be similar to Brett Favre in this regard.

That being said, obviously nobody was comparing Taylor to Brett in terms of future professional success, but only in gunslinger mentality as quarterbacks.

Still waiting Hedley.

 

[jmfb]

I support Martinez, different kid

He gets too much blame when we lose

But he is far too careless with the football and doesnt move well laterally in the "pocket". Great straight ahead acceleration, not so great laterally, he doesnt make people miss or break tackles. His option reads are pretty poor. His big plays are finding a crease and putting the pedal to the floor- gets from 0- top end VERY quickly, as fast of faster than anyone Ive seen here

Passing is getting better, no doubt much more accurate this year

He is getting better at throwing the ball away, something he never did in years 1-2

His numbers are inflated due to lots of playing time earlier Quarterbacks never got, due to competition AND blowout scores

It will depend on next year as to where he ends up

I'm not sure why people still think this, I would have figured that scramble in the CCG would have put this to rest. Yes the latter half of his freshman and all of his sophomore year he was less than mobile in the pocket, but that was more than likely due to injures in both lower limbs. No Martinez isn't going to juke you out of your shoes like Denard or Miller but he is elusive and he has proven this year that he can escape the pocket and break tackles.

And as for your second to last line there, who cares if the other guys were pulled or not. Taylor broke all these records in just 3 years with less talent around him than the teams of the 90's and early 2000's. He earned everyone of those records and it pisses me off when people try to discredit that. You don't just stumble your way into the record books, it takes some talent and a lot of hard work.

I think this because it's true

He has little wiggle- great straight line speed

BUT pocket movement, awareness is DIFFERENT than being able to scramble

He has poor pocket awareness, doesnt move his feet to step up in the pocket and throw or move laterally 2 steps to make someone miss and deliver the ball

He is getting better at throwing the ball away- but still is poor at it

Too many turnovers- turnovers that destroy drives and lose games for us

His numbers are also inflated due to poor defense on our part- they score quickly- we have lots of possessions

Our no huddle offense- gives us more snaps

I know someone inside the program- Ganz did an analysis of his option reads- he is right only about 1/2 the time

His lateral speed is so weak- NU doesnt bother running the traditional option any more- it was a disaster with him at QB

Im a supporter, but the guy isnt an elite QB- not nationally or even in the top 5 here

Im hoping he cuts down on the turnovers, learns to toss the ball away and develops some pocket footwork from his guru

 

[Duke Silver]

He is doing a lot of things right

 

[ZRod]

I think this because it's true

He has little wiggle- great straight line speed

Agreed, but he is pretty elusive even with out the wiggle

BUT pocket movement, awareness is DIFFERENT than being able to scramble

He has poor pocket awareness, doesnt move his feet to step up in the pocket and throw or move laterally 2 steps to make someone miss and deliver the ball

Agreed

He is getting better at throwing the ball away- but still is poor at it

Agreed

Too many turnovers- turnovers that destroy drives and lose games for us

Only slightly agree here, he's never been the sole reason that we lost a game

His numbers are also inflated due to poor defense on our part- they score quickly- we have lots of possessions

This is just dumb

Our no huddle offense- gives us more snaps

Dumb as well

I know someone inside the program- Ganz did an analysis of his option reads- he is right only about 1/2 the time

Never heard this before, I'm curious where you got this information from. He does miss a read sometimes but sometimes there is no right choice, or what looked like a read to us was a designed keep/give.

His lateral speed is so weak- NU doesnt bother running the traditional option any more- it was a disaster with him at QB

What? We ran it in the bowl game for a 7 to 8 yard gain! It's never been a big part of our offense, it's just something for the other team to look at and a nice change of pace type play.

Im a supporter, but the guy isnt an elite QB- not nationally or even in the top 5 here

He may not be elite, but he is one of the most productive QBs in the nation.

Im hoping he cuts down on the turnovers, learns to toss the ball away and develops some pocket footwork from his guru

Agreed, although I think his pocket footwork is pretty good (still could imporv though).

 

[Hedley Lamarr]

Cut it down to just what you would like me to answer. Too much to read and comment on. If I wanted to get a novel I would go Barnes &Noble

You can start with these.

Hedley, you don't think Taylor is one of the greatest NU quarterbacks ever? Why not? Where is the cutoff point for greatness? The 5th greatest? The 10th? 20th? Being great isn't definable, nor is "one of the greatest". Opinions are well and good, but keep in mind that you're arguing and getting worked up over something arbitrary that is perceived very differently by different people.

Answer: I was asked to name 5 that were better.

The definition of the word average is the mean, or middle, when compared with all other entries into a data pool. Since he ranks 37th in the nation out of 116 entries for quarterback rating, he is quite above average as a quarterback. Furthermore Taylor was 4-2 this season in games when trailing by multiple scores, against the 9th, 19th, 20th, 31st and 32nd ranked defenses in terms of points allowed per game. Since our offense was 27th in points scored per game, statistically speaking, he has success more often than he falls apart when facing teams with equal or greater skill.

What is his record against top 25? QBR is great and all but he leads the nation in TOs every year he has played. Glad we are now considered equal or less than Mich St and NW. We were down big to teams we shouldn't have been.

Cody Green was the 6th rated Dual-Threat quarterback, 19th in the state of Texas a quarterback recruit, and 173rd in the country as a quarterback recruit. Brion Carnes was the 7th rated Dual-Threat quarterback, and 44th in the state of Florida as a quarterback recruit. Jamal Turner was the 7th rated Dual-Threat quarterback, 19th in the state of Texas a quarterback recruit, and 140th in the nation as a quarterback recruit. Tommy Armstrong was the 9th rated Dual-Threat quarterback and 49th in the state of Texas as a quarterback recruit.

Green was recruited by most others as an athlete and TE. Carnes mentally can't grasp the offense at the QB position. Turner was a pure athlete that played WR in the UA all American game. Martinez was also an athlete that no others offered as a QB.

Once again, your point is demonstrably false. NU has recruited all quarterback prospects except for one (Taylor Martinez).

It is possible to compare certain elements between two things while dismissing other elements. Here, let me show you. For example, I am a white male. Brett Farve is also a white male. Therefore, in this regard, Brett Favre and I are similar. Another example, Brett Favre sends penis pictures to women. It wouldn't surprise me if you did also. Therefore, you may or may not be similar to Brett Favre in this regard.

That being said, obviously nobody was comparing Taylor to Brett in terms of future professional success, but only in gunslinger mentality as quarterbacks.

Yes you can compare the two but I would not call Martinez a gunslinger. He takes several risks when throwing the football. I guess I have a ten year old nephew who reminds me of Favre too.

 

[flatwaterfan]

Just to clarify something, lateral speed would be shuffling sideways.

I think Tmart's problems with the option is that he bubbles out and doesnt run straight down the line. Bubbling out means you are covering more ground and getting to the edge slower giving defenses time to flow. The other thing is that the QB needs cut inside if the pitch is not open. Don't let it get strung out. It seems like Taylor was always trying to run wide around the end. It takes practice and time to run the option and I don't think he gets a lot of reps with it.

Taylor was elected to the B1G first/second teams, so he must be doing something right. He will be a SR next year, how good will he be if he makes the SR jump that a lot of players make? Pretty darn good.

 

[Landlord]

Cut it down to just what you would like me to answer. Too much to read and comment on. If I wanted to get a novel I would go Barnes &Noble

You can start with these.

Hedley, you don't think Taylor is one of the greatest NU quarterbacks ever? Why not? Where is the cutoff point for greatness? The 5th greatest? The 10th? 20th? Being great isn't definable, nor is "one of the greatest". Opinions are well and good, but keep in mind that you're arguing and getting worked up over something arbitrary that is perceived very differently by different people.

Answer: I was asked to name 5 that were better.

The definition of the word average is the mean, or middle, when compared with all other entries into a data pool. Since he ranks 37th in the nation out of 116 entries for quarterback rating, he is quite above average as a quarterback. Furthermore Taylor was 4-2 this season in games when trailing by multiple scores, against the 9th, 19th, 20th, 31st and 32nd ranked defenses in terms of points allowed per game. Since our offense was 27th in points scored per game, statistically speaking, he has success more often than he falls apart when facing teams with equal or greater skill.

What is his record against top 25? QBR is great and all but he leads the nation in TOs every year he has played. Glad we are now considered equal or less than Mich St and NW. We were down big to teams we shouldn't have been.

Cody Green was the 6th rated Dual-Threat quarterback, 19th in the state of Texas a quarterback recruit, and 173rd in the country as a quarterback recruit. Brion Carnes was the 7th rated Dual-Threat quarterback, and 44th in the state of Florida as a quarterback recruit. Jamal Turner was the 7th rated Dual-Threat quarterback, 19th in the state of Texas a quarterback recruit, and 140th in the nation as a quarterback recruit. Tommy Armstrong was the 9th rated Dual-Threat quarterback and 49th in the state of Texas as a quarterback recruit.

Green was recruited by most others as an athlete and TE. Carnes mentally can't grasp the offense at the QB position. Turner was a pure athlete that played WR in the UA all American game. Martinez was also an athlete that no others offered as a QB.

Once again, your point is demonstrably false. NU has recruited all quarterback prospects except for one (Taylor Martinez).

It is possible to compare certain elements between two things while dismissing other elements. Here, let me show you. For example, I am a white male. Brett Farve is also a white male. Therefore, in this regard, Brett Favre and I are similar. Another example, Brett Favre sends penis pictures to women. It wouldn't surprise me if you did also. Therefore, you may or may not be similar to Brett Favre in this regard.

That being said, obviously nobody was comparing Taylor to Brett in terms of future professional success, but only in gunslinger mentality as quarterbacks.

Yes you can compare the two but I would not call Martinez a gunslinger. He takes several risks when throwing the football. I guess I have a ten year old nephew who reminds me of Favre too.

Nice response, dude.

 

[Nebula]

I haven't read this thread yet. Anyone feel like summing it up for me?

If it's anti-Beck my f'ing brain will explode.

 

[kchusker_chris]

now one of the highest paid assistants in college football...now if we could just invest some money in the defense