Battle of the Hall-of-Famers: Mike Rozier vs. Ron Dayne

StPaulHusker said:
Ron Dayne SHOULD highlight this years class
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Frazier was a better QB than Dayne was a RB. Frazier doesn't get top billing because he didn't win the Heisman and because he was an Option Quarterback.

Ron Dayne was a fine college running back, no question. But Tommie Frazier may have been the best college quarterback ever.

EDIT - to clarify something: It kinda seems like I'm trashing Ron Dayne in this thread. I'm not - he's a great college running back and deserves accolades. But in the context of this conversation, as Dayne stands among other giants, he doesn't stand as tall. He's still a giant amongst the rest of college football.

 
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knapplc said:
StPaulHusker said:
Ron Dayne SHOULD highlight this years class
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Frazier was a better QB than Dayne was a RB. Frazier doesn't get top billing because he didn't win the Heisman and because he was an Option Quarterback.

Ron Dayne was a fine college running back, no question. But Tommie Frazier may have been the best college quarterback ever.
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I agree with you 100%. But had Frazier won the Heisman, it wouldn't have taken 19 years to get him in the HOF and he would have headlined a class much earlier.

 
knapplc said:
AllNRed said:
For some reason the pic won't appear on my work computer, so feel free to explain to me why a man finishing with 4,780 yards and 49 TDs (Mike Rozier) is a better career than a man who finished with 7,125 yards and 71 TDs (Ron Dayne). Yea, Mike had more yards per carry but he still finished with over 1500 yards less than Dayne. That's a better career, obviously no knock on Rozier, but my point is Dayne was a great back and has accomplished as much if not more than one of our all time greats, so it's not insulting to say he "headlines" this years class.
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That's not a better career, those are higher stats. Huge difference there.

Rozier played during the Scoring Explosion years and had to share the ball with Turner Gill and Irving Fryar. Gill and Fryar ate up some of Rozier's stats - Gill was a Heisman finalist in his own right - not to mention the fact that Rozier sat in most of the second halfs of the games he played in. Dayne played four years for Wisconsin while Rozier played three for Nebraska. Give Rozier another year and another 200 carries and he easily eclipses Dayne's stats.
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Dayne was nearly 2400 yards ahead of Rozier. And that other year you give Rozier would have to be his freshman year, which he missed while going to JC, not a missed senior year (like Phillips). Rozier's freshman year would've been more like his 1000 yard sophomore season. Yeah, Rozier had to share the ball, but that kept teams from keying on him too much, and also kept him fresher. There's no definitive answer.

And with all that, I pick Rozier over Dayne. Not by a lot.

 
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knapplc said:
The only thing - the ONLY thing - Ron Dayne has over Mike Rozier is the fact that he ran for more yards and scored more total touchdowns. Because that is the ONLY THING that Dayne has an advantage in, it is entirely germane to show that the ONLY REASON Dayne has that statistical advantage is that he was given the ball more. That naturally begs the question, why was he given the ball more? Answer: They didn't have anyone else.

Whether you like the stats I provided or not is irrelevant. The fact is, Rozier did more every time he touched the ball than Dayne.

If you ONLY define "better" by having more yards total in a career, then Taylor Martinez had a better career than Tommie Frazier. Are you sure you want to make that argument?
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Taylor Martinez would have a better career if he accomplished everything that Tommie Frazier did, which we all know he has not. The comparison of those two is not the same as Rozier/Dayne.

Both Rozier & Dayne won a Heisman

Both Rozier & Dayne won a Maxwell

Both Rozier & Dayne won a Walter Camp

Both Rozier & Dayne were Player of the Year

Both Rozier & Dayne were Consensus All Americans (Rozier Twice)

Dayne also has a Chic Harley Award, Doak Walker Award, Jim Brown Award, MVP of two major bowl games (Rose Bowl).......with the addition of 1500+ yards and 21 more TDs..........

I really don't understand why you are misinterpreting what I am saying or if you are purposely doing so...........Rozier was a GREAT RB, one of the best in history. But based on his accomplishments on the field during his college career compared to Dayne's, Dayne gets the nod for having a better CAREER.

Example since we are just throwing out names...........Ahman Green I believe is the all time leading rusher for the Green Bay Packers.....great athlete, had a great career.......Vincent Jackson...better known as Bo, arguably one of the best athletes to every play in the NFL, doesn't own a single record due to career being cut short from injury and early retirement. I would say Ahman had a better career than Bo without suggesting that Ahman is a better RB than Bo.

Another example Colt McCoy at one time was the winningest college QB (I think the record was broken by Boise St's QB). I would argue that his career was great and much better than Russell Wilson's, but which QB would you say is better.

I hope you see my point. I'm not knocking anything about Rozier, but he does not have the best college career of any RB in history, and Ron Dayne, though not a "better RB" has one of those careers that are better, based on accomplishments, not "what ifs".

 
Again, how are you defining "better career?" Total yards? Wins? Championships? Dayne never played for a national championship. Rozier also won the Chic Harley award (1983) and was a consensus All-American two times to Dayne's one. Rozier had a better yards per carry average as well.

What definition of "career" are you using?

 
StPaulHusker said:
Rozier is without a doubt the superior RB between the 2. Apply the stats appropriately and it's not even close. Ron Dayne SHOULD highlight this years class but to say he was better than Rozier is crazy.
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Not sure who is saying that......for some odd reason, that's how my original post is being interpreted.

 
knapplc said:
Again, how are you defining "better career?" Total yards? Wins? Championships? Dayne never played for a national championship. Rozier also won the Chic Harley award (1983) and was a consensus All-American two times to Dayne's one. Rozier had a better yards per carry average as well.

What definition of "career" are you using?
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Playing for a national championship and winning it is two different things. So let's just point out that Rozier played in the Orange Bowl, which is where the Big 8 Champ normally appeared, in back to back years. He's 1-1 in those games. Dayne appeared in the Rose Bowl, which is where the Big 10 Champ normally appeared, in back to back years. He's 2-0. Not sure why you are throwing the national championship appearance as a rebuttal being that we lost that game and this is well before the bowl selection system that was in place in 1999 was in place when deciding who is in the national title game.

Rozier had a Chic Harley Award....I apologize, I missed that as was pointed out by another poster. Again, you are going back to the "more ypc" argument. That's great, but Dayne finished with a full season's worth, a great season at that, of yards & TDs more.

What if - Rozier had another year, he could have surpassed Dayne easily in yards and TDs.........of course this COULD BE TRUE.

What if - Rozier came back another year and got a season ending injury which hurt his worth for playing at the next level, never giving him a chance to play to the full ability of his talent after NU......of course this COULD BE TRUE.

Taking out the what ifs...........who has more yards. who has more touchdowns, they both have the same awards, and both played in consecutive "Big Boy Bowls".........only one thing tips the scale towards Dayne when it comes to his career. My goodness. Why is that hard to accept.........Do I have to believe that Rozier's CAREER is better than every back that finished with more yards simply because they were used more or had less talent around them or played an extra year.......

 
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