Bands that should not have been as big as they are or were

[strigori]

Timing is part of the point. When the Ramones came up, there was nothing like it. The popular music was more complex and maybe a bit overwhelming to newbies, and the Ramones were not. AC/DC had a few big songs, but they were not 'ground breaking' It looked, and sounded, like something anyone could do. And for the record, I don't really care for either. For exactly the same reasons.

Thats the thing, AC/DC never set out to be ground breaking. Almost every AC/DC song is based around the "A" note. If you can play an "A", then you've got the ground work for most AC/DC songs. And there's other things besides the guitar that makes AC/DC great, and that is the drums. Those early AC/DC albums the drummer rarely hits the crash, and thats lesson to drummers on how not to "overplay" the instrument.

As for there being nothing like the Ramones, what about MC5 or Iggy and the Stooges? They were punk before anybody knew what punk was....

The drummers I know just about cringe when AC/DC is brought up. Four on the Floor is what makes up the core of his playing.

MC5 and Iggy didn't have the same kind of commercial break through though. They both have more retroactive acclaim than they did at the time they were releasing music.

 

[walksalone]

MC5 and Iggy didn't have the same kind of commercial break through though. They both have more retroactive acclaim than they did at the time they were releasing music.

If you're basing punk on "commercial break through", then you don't know what punk is...

 

[strigori]

MC5 and Iggy didn't have the same kind of commercial break through though. They both have more retroactive acclaim than they did at the time they were releasing music.

If you're basing punk on "commercial break through", then you don't know what punk is...

I'm talking influence. And if no one heard a band, then their influence really isnt there.

 

[walksalone]

MC5 and Iggy didn't have the same kind of commercial break through though. They both have more retroactive acclaim than they did at the time they were releasing music.

If you're basing punk on "commercial break through", then you don't know what punk is...

I'm talking influence. And if no one heard a band, then their influence really isnt there.

Plenty of people heard Iggy and MC5, and just because a band isn't main stream, doesn't mean their influence isn't far reaching. Trust me, there are many bands that aren't mainstream (Minor Threat, Black Flag, Germs, Dead Boys, Meatmen, Minutemen, Descendents, 7 Seconds, Agnostic Front, Subhumans, D.R.I., C.O.C.) that have played a huge influence on metal, punk, and hardcore music. Why do you think Slayer did a punk cover album? Because Hanneman loved punk and was heavily influenced by it.

Ever heard of Budgie, Killing Joke, Diamondhead? These three bands were huge influences on Metallica.

 

[HUSKER 37]

Timing is part of the point. When the Ramones came up, there was nothing like it. The popular music was more complex and maybe a bit overwhelming to newbies, and the Ramones were not. AC/DC had a few big songs, but they were not 'ground breaking' It looked, and sounded, like something anyone could do. And for the record, I don't really care for either. For exactly the same reasons.

Thats the thing, AC/DC never set out to be ground breaking. Almost every AC/DC song is based around the "A" note. If you can play an "A", then you've got the ground work for most AC/DC songs. And there's other things besides the guitar that makes AC/DC great, and that is the drums. Those early AC/DC albums the drummer rarely hits the crash, and thats lesson to drummers on how not to "overplay" the instrument.

As for there being nothing like the Ramones, what about MC5 or Iggy and the Stooges? They were punk before anybody knew what punk was....

My oldest Brother had that MC5 album that I posted earlier, but I don't really remember ever hearing it before last week,,When I first heard the Ramones, I was 32 miles from my hometown at Dusty's Records in Kearney after buying my first suit for my Sr pictures (Tan, very close lined Italian Corduroy...bought at the Hitchin' Post)....I'd never heard anything remotely like it and had to ask Dusty what in the heck it was..Saw the graffitti style "Rocket to Russia" album cover and couldn't wait to play it for my Brother..WE were always on the lookout for something different..It was simple, but catchy? A few years ago at some sort of dedication for a dead Ramone, U2 guitarist "The Edge" paid a back handed? compliment to their really primitive style influencing him to pick up a guitar because they made it sound so simple.

I never hated AC/DC and regularly sing along "Dirty Deeds Done With Sheep" whenever I hear it on the radio, but the only reason I bought one of their Greatest Hits CDs was because it was $5...I still haven't played it.as all of the songs have already been over played to the point to make it an automatic station switch...

 

[HUSKER 37]

Isn't it safe to say that no musician (or any famous pop culture person) deserves to be idolized and as big as they actually are?

That's a question that delves into societal mores and individual and group psychosis areas. A short answer would be "yes," but the iceberg you're referencing is immense underneath the waterline.

Gawl darnit, Mr. Lamarr, you use your tongue perttier than a twenty dollar whore. ....

 

[walksalone]

My oldest Brother had that MC5 album that I posted earlier, but I don't really remember ever hearing it before last week,,When I first heard the Ramones, I was 32 miles from my hometown at Dusty's Records in Kearney after buying my first suit for my Sr pictures (Tan, very close lined Italian Corduroy...bought at the Hitchin' Post)....I'd never heard anything remotely like it and had to ask Dusty what in the heck it was..Saw the graffitti style "Rocket to Russia" album cover and couldn't wait to play it for my Brother..WE were always on the lookout for something different..It was simple, but catchy? A few years ago at some sort of dedication for a dead Ramone, U2 guitarist "The Edge" paid a back handed? compliment to their really primitive style influencing him to pick up a guitar because they made it sound so simple

I heard the Ramones, Iggy, and MC5 all when I was about 5 years old. I thought the Ramones were cool, but was amazed by MC5 & Iggy. Not until years later, after listening to both again, why I liked MC5 & Iggy more, was because their music had a frenetic quality and were pushing boundaries.

The Ramones were "Pop Punk" before anybody knew what it meant...

 

[HUSKER 37]

My oldest Brother had that MC5 album that I posted earlier, but I don't really remember ever hearing it before last week,,When I first heard the Ramones, I was 32 miles from my hometown at Dusty's Records in Kearney after buying my first suit for my Sr pictures (Tan, very close lined Italian Corduroy...bought at the Hitchin' Post)....I'd never heard anything remotely like it and had to ask Dusty what in the heck it was..Saw the graffitti style "Rocket to Russia" album cover and couldn't wait to play it for my Brother..WE were always on the lookout for something different..It was simple, but catchy? A few years ago at some sort of dedication for a dead Ramone, U2 guitarist "The Edge" paid a back handed? compliment to their really primitive style influencing him to pick up a guitar because they made it sound so simple

I heard the Ramones, Iggy, and MC5 all when I was about 5 years old. I thought the Ramones were cool, but was amazed by MC5 & Iggy. Not until years later, after listening to both again, why I liked MC5 & Iggy more, was because their music had a frenetic quality and were pushing boundaries.

The Ramones were "Pop Punk" before anybody knew what it meant...

Good point...I still find it puzzling why you prefer Foo Fighters to Nirvana..To me, the Foo have more catchy or "Pop" tunes, with a very limited shelf life, but Nirvana still intriques me sometimes and I want to listen to their deeper cuts still to this day.

 

[HUSKER 37]

Hard to believe nobody has mentioned KISS yet..

Musically so so, more known for putting on a live show...

Kiss is the second band that should be in the Rock and Roll HOF besides Rush. Now that Rush is in Kiss needs to be in. Kiss changed the way concerts were produced and they way bands and rock and roll were marketed. In their hayday no band put on a better show than Kiss. Musically they are just as good as about 90% of any other hard rock band.

Kiss was the biggest band in the world for about 5 years straight.

I know they weren't the first, but I usually blame KISS for the trend of Style over Substance..THey basically learned to play their instruments while touring with Rush.. Even when they were big and I was in Highschool, I had 4 cousins and another guy that started trying to emulate their shows and lip syncing the songs as a parody? just so there'd be something to do in our town..Soon they realized they sounded much better than the real band by using their own voices and plugging in their instruments ..

 

[walksalone]

My oldest Brother had that MC5 album that I posted earlier, but I don't really remember ever hearing it before last week,,When I first heard the Ramones, I was 32 miles from my hometown at Dusty's Records in Kearney after buying my first suit for my Sr pictures (Tan, very close lined Italian Corduroy...bought at the Hitchin' Post)....I'd never heard anything remotely like it and had to ask Dusty what in the heck it was..Saw the graffitti style "Rocket to Russia" album cover and couldn't wait to play it for my Brother..WE were always on the lookout for something different..It was simple, but catchy? A few years ago at some sort of dedication for a dead Ramone, U2 guitarist "The Edge" paid a back handed? compliment to their really primitive style influencing him to pick up a guitar because they made it sound so simple

I heard the Ramones, Iggy, and MC5 all when I was about 5 years old. I thought the Ramones were cool, but was amazed by MC5 & Iggy. Not until years later, after listening to both again, why I liked MC5 & Iggy more, was because their music had a frenetic quality and were pushing boundaries.

The Ramones were "Pop Punk" before anybody knew what it meant...

Good point...I still find it puzzling why you prefer Foo Fighters to Nirvana..To me, the Foo have more catchy or "Pop" tunes, with a very limited shelf life, but Nirvana still intriques me sometimes and I want to listen to their deeper cuts still to this day.

I really only like the very first foo fighters album, when they were still raw...

 

[teachercd]

KISS doesn't get the "credit" from critics because critics tend to not like what they are singing about. Lets face it, KISS songs are fun, they are about girls, partying, and so on. Just because they are not signing about being depressed and changing the world critiques were hard on them.

It is not like they could not play, I am sure that they could play just as well as any of the bands that are known for playing super difficult music, BUT, what they did was use a formula.

Awhile back I read an article about Will Smith, him and his agent sat down and looked/reviewed every summer blockbuster for that last 10 years (I think this was right before he made Independence Day) and they "cracked" the formula, they knew there had to be action, they knew it had to be bigger than life, they knew there had to be special effects, they knew the release date needed to fall in a certain area of summer and they knew what kind of characters people paid to see and what raiting the movie needed to be, usually PG 13. I am not a huge Will Smith fan but lets face it, his summer movies make tons of freaking money, the guy sticks with the formula, for the most part.

Well, KISS cracked the code too.

1. Play tunes that are fun

2. Play tunes that other people can sing with and/or play (imitation is SO important)

3. Have a gimmick (Makeup)

4. Give the fans a HUGE show, don't act like YOU are doing them the favor but KNOW they are doing you the favor by showing up

5. MERCHANDISING

6. Go to towns where other bands won't go play and become that towns "Cool thing" to do/see

7. Treat your fans as the most important thing in the world instead of being mad when they want a picture or autograph

For KISS it really was not about being the best musicians in the world (Ala Rush) it was about having fun, making money and being huge.

 

[VA Husker Fan]

Radiohead has a following, but I don't think they are that big. I guess if you know some people who like them and talk about them all the time you'd get sick of them, but I bet most people are rarely exposed to them. If they had done more music like "In Rainbows" they'd be a lot bigger. That's easily in my top 5 CDs of all time. I listened to OK Computer for awhile but rarely that or anything else anymore.

DMB is the one that puzzles me. They have talent but all them seem to do is show how many different sounds their instruments and voices can make, whether those sounds are good or not.

 

[HUSKER 37]

KISS doesn't get the "credit" from critics because critics tend to not like what they are singing about. Lets face it, KISS songs are fun, they are about girls, partying, and so on. Just because they are not signing about being depressed and changing the world critiques were hard on them.

It is not like they could not play, I am sure that they could play just as well as any of the bands that are known for playing super difficult music, BUT, what they did was use a formula.

Awhile back I read an article about Will Smith, him and his agent sat down and looked/reviewed every summer blockbuster for that last 10 years (I think this was right before he made Independence Day) and they "cracked" the formula, they knew there had to be action, they knew it had to be bigger than life, they knew there had to be special effects, they knew the release date needed to fall in a certain area of summer and they knew what kind of characters people paid to see and what raiting the movie needed to be, usually PG 13. I am not a huge Will Smith fan but lets face it, his summer movies make tons of freaking money, the guy sticks with the formula, for the most part.

Well, KISS cracked the code too.

1. Play tunes that are fun

2. Play tunes that other people can sing with and/or play (imitation is SO important)

3. Have a gimmick (Makeup)

4. Give the fans a HUGE show, don't act like YOU are doing them the favor but KNOW they are doing you the favor by showing up

5. MERCHANDISING

6. Go to towns where other bands won't go play and become that towns "Cool thing" to do/see

7. Treat your fans as the most important thing in the world instead of being mad when they want a picture or autograph

For KISS it really was not about being the best musicians in the world (Ala Rush) it was about having fun, making money and being huge.

This has made me wonder if we'd be "blessed" by the Justins of the music world without KISS,,

(Beiber and Timberlake)

And my Son adds..One Direction..Whoever that is..

Just because a majority of people have had their tastes in music dumbed down to the point to where mediocrity outsells everything else makes it OK I guess.

edit:

As I was mindlessly singing along to "Detroit, Rock City" in my car Friday

 

[HuskerThor]

I wouldn't have a problem if it were called the Music Hall of Fame or some such thing but it is the Rock & Roll HOF.

Here is a short list of some that have already been inducted:

Public Enemy, Laura Nyro, Beastie Boys, Neil Diamond, Run DMC, Grandmaster Flash, Herb Alpert, Miles Davis, Isaac Hayes

Here is a partial list of some who have not been inducted yet:

Kiss, The Cars, Bon Jovi, Def Leppard, Joan Jett, B-52's, Cheap Trick, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Iron Maiden, Moody Blues, Jethro Tull, Deep Purple, Joe Cocker, The Monkees, Journey, Chicago, Hall & Oates, The Cure

Now I won't say the ones that are in aren't deserving of something or that I necessarily like all of those listed that aren't in but, this is the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I happen to like Neil Diamond and can appreciate the music of Herb Alpert and Miles Davis but no way guys like that belong in there before these others.

More than a few of these just astound me; SRV, Kiss, Joe Cocker.... c'mon.

It seems they stayed pretty true to R&R from 1986 to about 2002 but since then there have been some real head scratchers and very notable slights IMO.

Iron Maiden should be at the top of that list..
Metalica=Iron Maiden wannabes.

 

[teachercd]

KISS doesn't get the "credit" from critics because critics tend to not like what they are singing about. Lets face it, KISS songs are fun, they are about girls, partying, and so on. Just because they are not signing about being depressed and changing the world critiques were hard on them.

It is not like they could not play, I am sure that they could play just as well as any of the bands that are known for playing super difficult music, BUT, what they did was use a formula.

Awhile back I read an article about Will Smith, him and his agent sat down and looked/reviewed every summer blockbuster for that last 10 years (I think this was right before he made Independence Day) and they "cracked" the formula, they knew there had to be action, they knew it had to be bigger than life, they knew there had to be special effects, they knew the release date needed to fall in a certain area of summer and they knew what kind of characters people paid to see and what raiting the movie needed to be, usually PG 13. I am not a huge Will Smith fan but lets face it, his summer movies make tons of freaking money, the guy sticks with the formula, for the most part.

Well, KISS cracked the code too.

1. Play tunes that are fun

2. Play tunes that other people can sing with and/or play (imitation is SO important)

3. Have a gimmick (Makeup)

4. Give the fans a HUGE show, don't act like YOU are doing them the favor but KNOW they are doing you the favor by showing up

5. MERCHANDISING

6. Go to towns where other bands won't go play and become that towns "Cool thing" to do/see

7. Treat your fans as the most important thing in the world instead of being mad when they want a picture or autograph

For KISS it really was not about being the best musicians in the world (Ala Rush) it was about having fun, making money and being huge.

This has made me wonder if we'd be "blessed" by the Justins of the music world without KISS,,

(Beiber and Timberlake)

And my Son adds..One Direction..Whoever that is..

Just because a majority of people have had their tastes in music dumbed down to the point to where mediocrity outsells everything else makes it OK I guess.

edit:

As I was mindlessly singing along to "Detroit, Rock City" in my car Friday

Ha!! you know, you are right. Those boy bands, just like the girl "bands" in the 80s (Debbie Gibson, and the red head girl and a few others) followed a formula. Nothing wrong with that!

Gene Simmons had a great quote about other bands, those bands that claim they are "embarrassed" by all the money they make. Simmons said "I want to help you guys out, for all the money you are embarrassed about, make a check out to Gene Simmons for that amount"