Begin the season as The Blackshirts?

knapp is right on...not only were they predatory, they were individually the best players at their position in college football at the time. at times we had 8 or 9 players on these defenses dominating the nfl draft early rounds. sometimes 3 or 4 in round 1...unfortunately, the whole black shirt thing is just tired. we don't get the kids anymore. I think they are working their asses off, they just aren't the level of the past. I had a buddy who started against NU in late 80's(when the d wasn't that good) NU fumbled the kickoff and they got the ball 1st and goal on the 3. he went out and threw 3 straight passes into the end zone seats. he said he couldn't think as fast as the defense was pursuing. they got a field goal and went on to lose 70-3. the blackshirts used to be the top defensive players in the country...now we are lucky if they are in the top in the big 10...like I said, I don't think its about players being motivated its about only having so much talent to begin with. its just tired. I say .hand them out week one and if you lose it or earn it, you earn it or lose it...keeps everyone motivated all week every week.

 
Well one possible benefit to both Bo and the team if he handed out Blackshirts before the first game would be that he wouldn't have to answer anymore questions from the media during the season such as: "When is the team getting Blackshirts?" "Are the Blackshirts coming out this week?"....yada yada yada.

It would be over and done with Week 1.

 
EZ-E said:
knapplc said:
EZ-E said:
JJHusker1 said:
EZ-E said:
A ton of old school blue-haired responses in this thread that sound a tad Jason Peter-ish
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And your examples of this are? I think it's been a pretty good discussion but I might be one those old school blue hairs to which you are referring. Sometimes it's not "old school blue hair" to suggest that traditions revert back to how they used to be. Those times IMO would be when the new way is not accomplishing anything and may possibly be providing negative motivation. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I think it's time to shake it up by taking the blackshirt tradition back to the way it used to be. Maybe just maybe it will help provide more blackshirtesque results on Saturdays. I don't see how it could hurt.
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In 09 if you remember correctly, Bo tried to give them out after we beat Mizzou. The Defense said no. We need to do it one more game and that game was against Texas Tech. We gave up 31 points (7 of which were when Niles Paul fumbled) and only 259 yards against a Mike Leach offense that had usually owned us. They earned them. It has been that way since '08 and I absolutely have no problem with that.

Remember in '07? They were given out in camp. That defense towards the end of the year appeared to not even care. I remember watching them and screaming the rhetorical question "Are you even trying?" Over and over at the TV after about the Okie State game that year. I don't recall them ever not getting to wear their black practice jerseys. You tell me. What is a bigger "break in tradition?" A team like the 07 team that ( again to my knowledge) never had to give theirs up. Or a team that comes together and works to earn it and agrees upon it?

Again, the players know the deal and they know the standards they are being held to and have agreed upon them. No issue with the way this tradition is being handled.
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For all your concern about the "old school blue hairs," you seem to have entirely missed the tradition of the Blackshirts. Which is not surprising knowing how youthful you are. But these examples pale in comparison to the Blackshirts the "old school blue hairs" know.

I understand that you know a few of the players. That's great. Almost every one of them was born in 1990 or later, and none of them were old enough to really understand this tradition, where it came from and why it means so much to people today. Using these players as examples of how it should be entirely misses the point. They're young men - they have neither the experience nor the memories of the great Blackshirt defenses.

There's a predatory aspect to the real Blackshirts that these guys know nothing of. Certainly they don't evince that aspect of the tradition, aside from a few players here and there over the past, say, ten years or so. There were more "true" Blackshirts on the 1993 defense than in all of the 2000s.

So you'll have to pardon us "old school blue hairs." Those of us who weren't still crapping our diapers when the last few real Blackshirt defenses played. I guess we just don't understand like you.
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Educate me bro. Who was worthy in the 2000s?

Edit.

Furthermore, since I don't know anything about anyone being a true BlackShirt how should it be done. Since you know a ton more than I do.
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recently? Suh and David would be a couple who come to mind...

 
EZ-E said:
You tell me I need the education and I'm giving you guys the opportunity to give it to me. I don't believe we are even "arguing" we are discussing."
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I've done all the opinion giving (educating) I can do on this subject. Couple that with Knapp's and some of the other comments and I think we've made a pretty solid case. As has been mentioned by many, we no longer dictate what opposing offenses can do and generally are not feared by our opponents like we used to be. Much of that falls on the debacle of the early 2000's and it's not entirely fair to lay that at Bo's feet. But us old blue hairs lived through a time that was much different and we know it can be better. We've seen it live and in person. The only educating necessary is to look at the defenses of the 80's and 90's and compare that to the 2000's and 2010's. It becomes quite clear which is likely the better way. I like Bo and think he has things headed in the right direction. However on this issue, I think he and some of the younger generation need to trust the judgement of some of us crusty old blue hairs. And BTW, I thought that moniker was reserved for the old farts that sit on their hands and tell those around them to sit down and be quiet. That ain't me.

 
As far as handing out more than eleven blackshirts, I have no problem with giving them to all package position starters even if it is 20ish shirts. As long as that shirt is tied to a specific first string package position it would be quite easy to make the players understand what shirt is being competed for and how to attain and keep it.

 
I was in favor of Bo doing it the way he does the first few years. But after watching steady and consistent regression on the defensive side of the football since that night in College Station, I would like to see it go back to the way it was for the reasons I've discussed. So yes, I guess I for one have flip flopped like a politician.

Knapp gets my nomination for post of the year. He nailed it. Put into words what everyone was thinking.

 
JJHusker1 said:
EZ-E said:
You tell me I need the education and I'm giving you guys the opportunity to give it to me. I don't believe we are even "arguing" we are discussing."
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I've done all the opinion giving (educating) I can do on this subject. Couple that with Knapp's and some of the other comments and I think we've made a pretty solid case. As has been mentioned by many, we no longer dictate what opposing offenses can do and generally are not feared by our opponents like we used to be. Much of that falls on the debacle of the early 2000's and it's not entirely fair to lay that at Bo's feet. But us old blue hairs lived through a time that was much different and we know it can be better. We've seen it live and in person. The only educating necessary is to look at the defenses of the 80's and 90's and compare that to the 2000's and 2010's. It becomes quite clear which is likely the better way. I like Bo and think he has things headed in the right direction. However on this issue, I think he and some of the younger generation need to trust the judgement of some of us crusty old blue hairs. And BTW, I thought that moniker was reserved for the old farts that sit on their hands and tell those around them to sit down and be quiet. That ain't me.
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This comment comes on both sides of the ball and it somewhat frustrates me (could be that this is the root of my frustration with Jason Peter) : "We need to dictate what the other team does."

We will never, and no team will ever, be in a position like we were in the 90s. Alabama isn't even today. The days where we could hand the other team our entire offensive and defensive game plan before the game and still win comfortably are over.

Alabama offensively "takes what the defense gives them."

Alabama defensively and every other team in the nation because of the shift to the high powered fast paced offenses has to "adjust to what the other team is doing."

 
I'm sorry, but if you can't include Matt O'Hanlon (just me not even thinking hard) I don't know what to say.

 
Every starter (13-14 players each year for different packages) deserves Blackshirts becuase that's what they are. They are rewarded to the defensive starters each year. It's cut and dried. Nothing more. Nothing less. Matt O'Hanlon was a Blackshirt. Corey Mckeon was a Blackshirt.

 
So...taking this whole thread in....does the 2009 defense qualify as a Blackshirt defense?! If not, and its not up to standards, why even have the Blackshirt tradition exist anymore?....

 
EZ-E, yes the game has changed somewhat in that regard but it is not light years different either. Yes teams may not be able to dominate and dictate like ot used to be but a defensive unit can still be feared and an offense can still take what is available. There are many teams today that have defenses that other teams really don't want to line up against. Bama has one of those, we do not. It can be better and I am hopeful and reservedly confident it will be better.

 
Chaddyboxer said:
So...taking this whole thread in....does the 2009 defense qualify as a Blackshirt defense?! If not, and its not up to standards, why even have the Blackshirt tradition exist anymore?....
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This is at the heart of the problem. Bo's way says it does or doesn't exist. And even when he determines it does exist there is ample evidence proving it does not. But, if starters are awarded blackshirts by week one, it always exists. It's just that it still might not be very good some years. That's always been the case.

 
If the point in the season when they are handed out doesn't make any difference in how the team plays, they why do you care if they are handed out at all? If our defense is going to be below average, do we just hand them out because its been done that way for 50 years? Or do you give them a tangible goal to work toward, even if they don't get all the way there?

Bo's way of continuing the tradition says you have to earn it. But most of the argument against it is basically that they are entitled to it. That seems exactly backwards of the Blackshirts spirit to me.

 
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