Martinez held out of practice with turf toe

[Enhance]

I think it goes without saying a limping Martinez takes away a part of what makes him dangerous/special. But, the only reason you sit Martinez is to preserve his body for B1G play, not because of potential upside from RKIII/TA. Martinez is by far our best quarterback, but you have to look beyond just the physical side of everything. Martinez' ability to adjust the play at the LOS and read defenses in a game setting is second to none because he's done it the most. The balancing act is determining whether or not that knowledge and a gimpy toe outweighs the health/inexperience of the backup.

Face value - I sit Martinez. NU *should* be able to take care of SDSU, and since I believe we have a bye week the following week, that's a solid three weeks to let Martinez rest the foot.

 

[Karawithasmile]

Now if we could list more than 4 games there, I think you'd be on to something...

All terrible defenses.

How did that go against UCLA this year? I don't care what you say, Martinez is not a pocket passer and cannot defeat good teams with his arm alone. I'm a Martinez fan but then guy is not good enough to sit in the pocket and pick apart defenses when the defense does not need to worry about his running ability.

Totally expected.

1 - Hyperbolic claim thrown out

2 - Claim is disproved

3 - Excuses and conditions are applied because people don't like the answer

4 - ???

5 - Profit

Quoting 4 games from 4 years of college football experience is not disproving anything. As I said, I am a martinez fan and I think he fits well with what we do in this offense but he needs to be able to run the ball to effectively to keep good defenses honest. Martinez does not have the pinpoint accuracy or football IQ to completely pick apart a good defense with just his arm.

Off play action and such, he can certainly be dominating through the air but beyond that. No.

The statement was "Martinez isn't good enough to beat a defense with his arm the entire game." Where is there a qualifier on how many games he could win by throwing?

Is this really a continuing debate? Martinez has shown some very brief flashes of brilliance with his arm (facilitated by defenses set up to guard against the running threat he presents). If teams know he is gimpy, they know and we have seen, that he is reduced to a shadow of himself. Martinez deserves props, he makes some amazing plays. But a pocket passer he is not.

 

[Mavric]

The statement was "Martinez isn't good enough to beat a defense with his arm the entire game." Where is there a qualifier on how many games he could win by throwing?

Is this really a continuing debate? Martinez has shown some very brief flashes of brilliance with his arm (facilitated by defenses set up to guard against the running threat he presents). If teams know he is gimpy, they know and we have seen, that he is reduced to a shadow of himself. Martinez deserves props, he makes some amazing plays. But a pocket passer he is not.

No problem. If you don't have an answer to my question, that's fine.

 

[jmfb]

Speed DOES NOT mean you can run yourself out of trouble at QB. Manziel has great straight line speed, lateral speed and pocket awareness. THAT is why the kid is so great at QB.

Martinez has always had great straight ahead speed. However eluding defenders in the pocket means stepping up, side stepping, short rolls and resets- Martinez doesnt do any of that very well at all

Martinez doesnt have good pocket awareness.

When he feels pressure he usually just: tucks it and takes a sack, tries to run to the outside and makes a bad throw/ gets sacked

Sure he's had 1 or 2 big plays, but hes had scores of the others Ive described

When he's healthy he has amazing straight line speed. But not great lateral speed- also note how he runs speed option- not so good. A function of having less than stellar lateral speed and ability to lower hips, change direction quickly etc

He doesnt have the skills or pocket awareness to become a good pocket passer or a traditional option runner

Not hate against Martinez, like the kid, love the guys heart, an honest assessment of how he plays

For me that means start TA for now and make sure to call plays that work to his strengths

 

[Karawithasmile]

The statement was "Martinez isn't good enough to beat a defense with his arm the entire game." Where is there a qualifier on how many games he could win by throwing?

Is this really a continuing debate? Martinez has shown some very brief flashes of brilliance with his arm (facilitated by defenses set up to guard against the running threat he presents). If teams know he is gimpy, they know and we have seen, that he is reduced to a shadow of himself. Martinez deserves props, he makes some amazing plays. But a pocket passer he is not.

No problem. If you don't have an answer to my question, that's fine.

I'm sorry, you're totally right. In his three years starting (we'll remove this year), according to the 4 games you listed, Martinez has won an average of approximately one game per year with decent play through the air. I'm excited to see if the Jags will take him next year.

 

[clone]

Status in doubt for this week's game.

Good week to take off and rest the injury.

 

[Knoxville Husker]

Let's examiner Martinez in our 13 losses since 2010. That's a larger sampling to review what went wrong and his quality of play.

2010: 4 losses, 52 total carries for 29 yards. 91 yards passing per game. This is a good example of what to expect from a gimpy Martinez.

2011: 4 losses, 64 carries for 200 yards, 176 yards passing per game, skewed by 289 yards against a NW defense that gave up 40 points per game. No other games (of the 4) over 200 yards passing, 3 ints against Michigan in blowout loss.

2012: 4 losses, 70 carries for 338 yards, just 3.8 yards per carry though excluding the 76 yard Wisconsin run. 195 yards passing per games, at a cost of 7 ints and 2 horrific blowouts.

I will not mention his fumbles, though there have been plenty. I will mention his negative 13 yards rushing against UCLA though. Also over the 13 losses he averages not even 2.5 yards per carry, 2.8 with the 76-yard Wisky run. Howe often does TM do anything positive on a broken play though?

I will be accused of cherry picking the games, but what else are we worried about but the blowout losses? I am just calling it like I see it, and the common them in our losses are his ineffective running, passing, and awful turnovers or drive-killing sacks and/or fumbles. Every once in a while in a loss he does just enough to have people say "TM was not the problem today," since more often than not the defense completely folds too. I know that distracts from the issue of the bad QB play.

So what if TM can pile up stats on bad defenses? I think we all know the above is very far from the level needed to win a conference championship game. Playing a gimpy Martinez, we will be lucky to even get there again. Even when healthy, I find it hard to believe this is still our best QB.

 

[RedPhoenix]

Anyone care to give a lil info on armstrong? I been away from football lately (personal reasons) until this season. I keep hearing good things but idk much about him?

Played a little against Southern Miss. Ran the option with authority. Not afraid to lower shoulder. Didn't throw, but rumor is he has a cannon for an arm. Staff has said he is a natural leader and the "it" factor.

He passes the eyeball test. Appears to have the swagger needed at the position. Will be interesting to see of he oes Sat. Knee was a little slow to rehab. Glad he got action last week to test it out.

Welcome o the board.

This. He is exactly what this offense needs IMO. He brings electricity to this offense because he is quick elusive and a leader. If Beck wants a run-first offense then he is our guy. If he wants a pass first then RKIII is our guy from what i've seen. But I have heard TA also has a cannon. Perfect time for him to get some experience and to see the future of our offense.

All the top QBs can make something out of nothing like the Wyoming guy and Hundley just did to us. Manzell would be the extreme example, that guy is amazing with those quick feet and elusiveness. You don't see him whining about the offensive line, he just refuses to be sacked or beaten on any play. Defenders will beat a block multiple times over the course of a game and the QB can never let one man take him down. TA showed that type of ability on film, and it is the very definition of the leadership you need at QB. It sets the tone for the entire team, vs. curling in a ball and being sacked, or trying futilely to run to the outside and not making it.

I completely agree. TA looks like a natural on the field thus far. If he doesn't start this weekend or get 90% of the snaps, Pelini needs to go.

 

[RedPhoenix]

I think it goes without saying a limping Martinez takes away a part of what makes him dangerous/special. But, the only reason you sit Martinez is to preserve his body for B1G play, not because of potential upside from RKIII/TA. Martinez is by far our best quarterback, but you have to look beyond just the physical side of everything. Martinez' ability to adjust the play at the LOS and read defenses in a game setting is second to none because he's done it the most. The balancing act is determining whether or not that knowledge and a gimpy toe outweighs the health/inexperience of the backup.

Face value - I sit Martinez. NU *should* be able to take care of SDSU, and since I believe we have a bye week the following week, that's a solid three weeks to let Martinez rest the foot.

I think that is one of Martinez' biggest weaknesses. I also don't think he is our best QB. I would put that on Tommy right now.

 

[Knoxville Husker]

All the top QBs can make something out of nothing like the Wyoming guy and Hundley just did to us. Manzell would be the extreme example, that guy is amazing with those quick feet and elusiveness. You don't see him whining about the offensive line, he just refuses to be sacked or beaten on any play. Defenders will beat a block multiple times over the course of a game and the QB can never let one man take him down. TA showed that type of ability on film, and it is the very definition of the leadership you need at QB. It sets the tone for the entire team, vs. curling in a ball and being sacked, or trying futilely to run to the outside and not making it.

I completely agree. TA looks like a natural on the field thus far. If he doesn't start this weekend or get 90% of the snaps, Pelini needs to go.

I like your style man! Why not hold BP fully accountable? And you even let me get away with calling Wyoming's a "top QB."

Also before I am accused of attacking TM, for the record I love all the guts and effort this kid has given for NU. I'm just being a realist and my criticism is based only on his quality (or lack there)of play. There is no rationale reason why I would "have it in." for TM personally, I don't.

 

[RedPhoenix]

Let's examiner Martinez in our 13 losses since 2010. That's a larger sampling to review what went wrong and his quality of play.

2010: 4 losses, 52 total carries for 29 yards. 91 yards passing per game. This is a good example of what to expect from a gimpy Martinez.

2011: 4 losses, 64 carries for 200 yards, 176 yards passing per game, skewed by 289 yards against a NW defense that gave up 40 points per game. No other games (of the 4) over 200 yards passing, 3 ints against Michigan in blowout loss.

2012: 4 losses, 70 carries for 338 yards, just 3.8 yards per carry though excluding the 76 yard Wisconsin run. 195 yards passing per games, at a cost of 7 ints and 2 horrific blowouts.

I will not mention his fumbles, though there have been plenty. I will mention his negative 13 yards rushing against UCLA though. Also over the 13 losses he averages not even 2.5 yards per carry, 2.8 with the 76-yard Wisky run. Howe often does TM do anything positive on a broken play though?

I will be accused of cherry picking the games, but what else are we worried about but the blowout losses? I am just calling it like I see it, and the common them in our losses are his ineffective running, passing, and awful turnovers or drive-killing sacks and/or fumbles. Every once in a while in a loss he does just enough to have people say "TM was not the problem today," since more often than not the defense completely folds too. I know that distracts from the issue of the bad QB play.

So what if TM can pile up stats on bad defenses? I think we all know the above is very far from the level needed to win a conference championship game. Playing a gimpy Martinez, we will be lucky to even get there again. Even when healthy, I find it hard to believe this is still our best QB.

Great breakdown. Thanks.

 

[Knoxville Husker]

I think it goes without saying a limping Martinez takes away a part of what makes him dangerous/special. But, the only reason you sit Martinez is to preserve his body for B1G play, not because of potential upside from RKIII/TA. Martinez is by far our best quarterback, but you have to look beyond just the physical side of everything. Martinez' ability to adjust the play at the LOS and read defenses in a game setting is second to none because he's done it the most. The balancing act is determining whether or not that knowledge and a gimpy toe outweighs the health/inexperience of the backup.

Face value - I sit Martinez. NU *should* be able to take care of SDSU, and since I believe we have a bye week the following week, that's a solid three weeks to let Martinez rest the foot.

I think that is one of Martinez' biggest weaknesses. I also don't think he is our best QB. I would put that on Tommy right now.

I bolded the even weirder part of the quote . This blind faith that TM is the only QB we can get remotely get ready to play kills me. For four years now, really?

Time for these coaches to go then, for failing to have but only one game ready QB for 4 full years! That's unacceptable!

 

[clone]

Sit Martinez til we actually need him and if he still can't run no point in him being out there, useless.

Ridiculous.

Martinez isn't a pocket passer. His legs are his best weapons. If he can't run the defense will just sit back and not rush since he wouldn't be a threat with his legs. Martinez isn't good enough to beat a defense with his arm the entire game.

Oklahoma St. 2010

Southern Miss 2012

Northwestern 2012

Minnesota 2012

All terrible defenses.

How did that go against UCLA this year? I don't care what you say, Martinez is not a pocket passer and cannot defeat good teams with his arm alone. I'm a Martinez fan but then guy is not good enough to sit in the pocket and pick apart defenses when the defense does not need to worry about his running ability.

Maybe not. But no nebraska QB has been better-

Nebraska Career Passing Yards Record Holder (6,591 yards)- and he's not done re-writing the record book.

He isn't chopped liver.

Martinez is also in position to record 9,000 career passing yards and 3,000 rushing yards, needing 2,409 passing yards and 142 rushing yards to reach those figures. If he would accomplish that feat he would join Colin Kaepernick as the only players in FBS history to reach the 9,000/3,000 career mark. Martinez is already just the 12th player in FBS history to pass for 6,000 yards and rush for 2,500 yards in a career.

 

[RedPhoenix]

All the top QBs can make something out of nothing like the Wyoming guy and Hundley just did to us. Manzell would be the extreme example, that guy is amazing with those quick feet and elusiveness. You don't see him whining about the offensive line, he just refuses to be sacked or beaten on any play. Defenders will beat a block multiple times over the course of a game and the QB can never let one man take him down. TA showed that type of ability on film, and it is the very definition of the leadership you need at QB. It sets the tone for the entire team, vs. curling in a ball and being sacked, or trying futilely to run to the outside and not making it.

I completely agree. TA looks like a natural on the field thus far. If he doesn't start this weekend or get 90% of the snaps, Pelini needs to go.

I like your style man! Why not hold BP fully accountable? And you even let me get away with calling Wyoming's a "top QB."

Also before I am accused of attacking TM, for the record I love all the guts and effort this kid has given for NU. I'm just being a realist and my criticism is based only on his quality (or lack there)of play. There is no rationale reason why I would "have it in." for TM personally, I don't.

I'd trade Martinez for Smith in a heartbeat. I too appreciate the passion of TM. I have not been a fan of his decision making on the field first and foremost, and I have wanted him replaced for 2 years now. It's nothing personal with me either, I just don't like him as a QB. Now, Mr. Armstrong on the other hand.... like Terrell Newby, looks like a natural. He just has that "it" factor. I don't know how to explain it other than that.

 

[RedPhoenix]

Maybe not. But no nebraska QB has been better-

Nebraska Career Passing Yards Record Holder (6,591 yards)- and he's not done re-writing the record book.

He isn't chopped liver.

Martinez is also in position to record 9,000 career passing yards and 3,000 rushing yards, needing 2,409 passing yards and 142 rushing yards to reach those figures. If he would accomplish that feat he would join Colin Kaepernick as the only players in FBS history to reach the 9,000/3,000 career mark. Martinez is already just the 12th player in FBS history to pass for 6,000 yards and rush for 2,500 yards in a career.

Those stats don't tell the whole story do they? Martinez may have the numbers, but I would say he is no better than the 11th best QB we've had at BEST.