Spring Practice Dumpster Fire

[The King]

Oh, I'll also throw in (going into his junior year) Taylor had 47 FUMBLES. 4. 7. 4-7.

47.

FUMBLES.

How many were lost? How many were from getting blindsided in the pocket because the O-Line couldn't protect the pocket? Did he drop the ball? Sure, but so does TA (and far too often its during the snap).

I still don't get the Martinez haters. The dude set over 30 school records, including: total offense, passing yards, touchdown passes and rushing yards by a QB. Dude played through injuries, dealt with scorn from fans, led the team to 2 conference championship games (games the defense slept through), and essentially put up video game numbers for 3 years. What did he do to earn your unabashed hatred?

It is a fact, Martinez is one of the great Nebraska QBs and it is a shame that the team couldn't help him win a championship.

I have also repeatedly said that the first 3 years of Martinez, he was unquestionably the best QB on our roster and for our team and that we owe him a lot for the things you stated. That doesn't mean I have to agree that he was some Husker legend and a lot of his records are set for the same point I'm about to make: If Jamal Turner started at QB as a true freshman, had the whole offense tailored to him, got a coach "let go" for telling Bo that this offense isn't working with him (and we should probably tailor the offense to the entire team, not one specific player - especially an injured one at that) I'm sure he would have video game like numbers after 4 years also.

Also, I said 3 years ago, that we would never win anything meaningful (and I reiterated it this year and last year, I believe) with him at the helm. Look at that, we haven't. That's what having an inconsistent QB does for you. He loses big games.

I do not hate Martinez. I hate his turnovers. I am glad he was a Husker. I'm still happy we can finally move on.

Let me ask you this: Does team chemistry and leadership factor into the equation at all for you? Obviously it isn't reflected in "broken" records, but there are other things those things do effect. Notice how the D finally came around when Tommy started playing and he was frequently over talking to them? I will not post any more info, but the team trusts and believe in Tommy a lot more than they ever did Taylor. Part of that is because of Tommy's personality, which is unfortunate for Taylor, but oh well.

Finally, I don't recall how many he lost of the top of my head in his first 3 years. I do know that even you maintain the ball, if you lose yardage, cost your team a first down, put your team behind the sticks, blow it on 3rd down - none of those are reflected in "oh, he only lost X fumbles." I don't care how many he lost, I care about how it cost us repeatedly in key situations by screwing up the down&distance. And I don't care about being blindsided - everyone gets blind sided. Maybe he should have better pocket presence and awareness. Of course the OL should block better but I can give hypotheticals if you can too.

Anything else you care to have answered?

 

[The King]

Oh, I'll also throw in (going into his junior year) Taylor had 47 FUMBLES. 4. 7. 4-7.

47.

FUMBLES.

How many were lost? How many were from getting blindsided in the pocket because the O-Line couldn't protect the pocket? Did he drop the ball? Sure, but so does TA (and far too often its during the snap).

I still don't get the Martinez haters. The dude set over 30 school records, including: total offense, passing yards, touchdown passes and rushing yards by a QB. Dude played through injuries, dealt with scorn from fans, led the team to 2 conference championship games (games the defense slept through), and essentially put up video game numbers for 3 years. What did he do to earn your unabashed hatred?

It is a fact, Martinez is one of the great Nebraska QBs and it is a shame that the team couldn't help him win a championship.

I'm fairly positive that those fumble numbers are not correct going into his junior year,but i dont care enough to check.

Its funny that even with Taylor (allegedly according to the king) throwing a worse ball, he still had a much better passing percentage.

It's okay king, you're entitled to being wrong.

Those numbers were correct. This site doesn't even include games stats unless it's two FBS schools and there are 45 in his 1st three years. I checked this a while back and he did have a couple more fumbles that don't show up here.

http://www.teamranki...er-stat/fumbles

#it'sokaytobefairlypositiveandbewrong

I'm not sure what that link is supposed to show, but i didn't see anywhere that mentioned Taylor Martinez and fumbles.

Btw, i think that those 47 fumbles were going into his senior year.

My apologies, it was going INTO his senior year at the conclusion of his junior year. I've been in a bit of rush today.

Still, that's a whole lot of fumbles.

 

[ZRod]

That is excluding any games against non-FBS opponents as well, so to get the true number you have to go through the play-by-play stuff on Huskermax or some other source and add those in. IIRC there were only a couple more. In general, QBs running the triple option are up high on the list.

BTW this is the only site I've ever found that has stats like this. Team fumbles are easy to find, but individual are not as readily available. I did once go through Crouch's 1999 season manually and if I remember correctly he had 12 that year, which was the worst of his career. It's too bad these stats don't go back further because it would be interesting to see numbers from our past QBs as a comparison given the type of offense they ran.

That's true. I think Taylor's fumble stats are slightly inflated for the simple reason that he ran the ball a lot. It's bound to happen that a running QB is gonna have more fumbles than a pocket QB. With that said, Taylor had horrible ball security and had a lot of head scratching fumbles in his career.

I believe one year he was tied with Oregon's QB for fumbles lost...

 

[The King]

Is the debate about how good Armstrong can be always gonna revert to you butthurt folks defending Taylor? You know they both can be good QB's right? Saying one is a good ball player doesn't equal the other sucks donkey balls. You get that don't you? I think the jump to defense of Taylor crap by some of you is about worn out.

Maybe just maybe, and I could be wrong since I'm a moron that+1ed Landlord largely do to his last paragraph, posters are stick of the continual bashing Taylor gets. This incident was brought to you by the king.

And isn't it ironic that some posters get butthurt over criticism of TA citing the he's a freshman card, yet they were some of the first casting stones Taylor's frosh year.

We obviously need Peyton Manning 2.0

Interesting, because I wasn't the first one to bring up Taylor Martinez; in fact, I just said that WRs disagree that he throws a better ball than TA. I then defended TA against someone who said he wasn't very good and made bad decisions - and then I mentioned if TA is bad decision maker, I'm afraid what that would make Taylor. I also said we would win more games with whoever the next QB is and sighted that TA was 7-1 as a starter and no one who makes a "lot of bad decisions" has that record. Sorry for defending our current Qb who was getting thrown to the way side by some posters.

 

[The King]

I don't care if you don't like Taylor, but this is pure speculation. Until players start coming out and saying they didn't like him, then why bring this up? This was beat to death a couple years ago when the line was blocking poorly. Until players come forward and say Taylor wasn't a leader, or a bad influence in the locker room, or a poor teammate, don't bring it up. It's pointless.

Especially don't bring it up when tons of players have said exactly the opposite.

It actually isn't speculation.

It's pretty well documented that people welcome the leadership TA brings to the team and it is also well documented how much more willing people were to put their necks out for Tommy in the media - and don't you remember the whole Quincy Enunwa situation with who'd he rather have start or w/e and he pretty much threw TM under the bus?

 

[RedDenver]

Should we just start a new spring practice update thread?

 

[Landlord]

I don't care if you don't like Taylor, but this is pure speculation. Until players start coming out and saying they didn't like him, then why bring this up? This was beat to death a couple years ago when the line was blocking poorly. Until players come forward and say Taylor wasn't a leader, or a bad influence in the locker room, or a poor teammate, don't bring it up. It's pointless.

Especially don't bring it up when tons of players have said exactly the opposite.

It actually isn't speculation.

It's pretty well documented that people welcome the leadership TA brings to the team and it is also well documented how much more willing people were to put their necks out for Tommy in the media - and don't you remember the whole Quincy Enunwa situation with who'd he rather have start or w/e and he pretty much threw TM under the bus?

Thanks in advance for the documentation that you are about to bless us with, since it is, as you say, well documented.

Can't wait.

 

[The King]

Is the debate about how good Armstrong can be always gonna revert to you butthurt folks defending Taylor? You know they both can be good QB's right? Saying one is a good ball player doesn't equal the other sucks donkey balls. You get that don't you? I think the jump to defense of Taylor crap by some of you is about worn out.

It was the anti-Taylor guys that brought him up, I don't understand why The King and folks like him needs to Martinez to talk up Armstrong. Especially since he has done nothing to show he was better than even a freshman Martinez.

I get it. You don't like Taylor and for some reason love Armstrong. Can we move on and talk about the team without disparaging one of the most prolific players in Nebraska history?

NOOOO. You obviously dont get it. And I'm defending True on this cuz we happen to agree on Armstrong. I think when it's all said and done he'll be a better qb here than Taylor. No, he probably wont set the records, but overall, when it's all said and done, he'll be remembered as better. BUT dagnabit IT, THAT DOESNT MEAN WE THINK TAYLOR SUCKED OR DISLIKED HIM.

Same way goes with this past season. The notion that we thought Armstrong was better than Taylor. LOL. Yeah. We're dumb enough to think a reddyfresh is better than a 5th year senior with 4 full years experience. LOL. NO. The concept was that Armstrong was better than an obviously hurt Taylor. And he was. No even close. I'd like to see it put to bed, but it wont be. 23 years from now, we'll still be rehashing Taylor Martinez. How great he was, and how bad he was, all at the same time. It's mind-boggling.

DING f'ing DINGGGG DING DING

I do not hate Taylor. I also stated that Tommy won't necessarily be a "better' player. I merely brought up that Taylor had turnover issues just like Tommy appears to have - except for only way more severe and people didn't seem to give a f#*k. I completely forgot the post, but I broke down the fumbles that the top QBs in the nation had and Martinez stood out like a sore thumb. You don't win games by consistently fumbling.

 

[zoogs]

Actually, I don't remember any of that. Seriously, when has the team ever not been behind Taylor?

I know this whole conversation started with something this or that guy said, but what's the point? Time to stop ragging on Taylor already, no? Not that it's anyone's fault in particular, but how conversations still revolve around him is a little mystifying.

 

[Mavric]

I don't care if you don't like Taylor, but this is pure speculation. Until players start coming out and saying they didn't like him, then why bring this up? This was beat to death a couple years ago when the line was blocking poorly. Until players come forward and say Taylor wasn't a leader, or a bad influence in the locker room, or a poor teammate, don't bring it up. It's pointless.

Especially don't bring it up when tons of players have said exactly the opposite.

It actually isn't speculation.

It's pretty well documented that people welcome the leadership TA brings to the team and it is also well documented how much more willing people were to put their necks out for Tommy in the media - and don't you remember the whole Quincy Enunwa situation with who'd he rather have start or w/e and he pretty much threw TM under the bus?

I actually recall very well how Enunwa was complaining about Martinez throwing a catchable ball ... Right before he proceeded to drop several catchable balls from TA the rest of the season.

 

[The King]

I don't care if you don't like Taylor, but this is pure speculation. Until players start coming out and saying they didn't like him, then why bring this up? This was beat to death a couple years ago when the line was blocking poorly. Until players come forward and say Taylor wasn't a leader, or a bad influence in the locker room, or a poor teammate, don't bring it up. It's pointless.

Especially don't bring it up when tons of players have said exactly the opposite.

It actually isn't speculation.

It's pretty well documented that people welcome the leadership TA brings to the team and it is also well documented how much more willing people were to put their necks out for Tommy in the media - and don't you remember the whole Quincy Enunwa situation with who'd he rather have start or w/e and he pretty much threw TM under the bus?

Thanks in advance for the documentation that you are about to bless us with, since it is, as you say, well documented.

Can't wait.

There are numerous things I've posted on here and PM'd to people that was not public knowledge at the time and did become public knowledge. Furthermore, I know there are articles out there that talk about Tommy's leadership ability.

Enunwa regarding a question about Martinez and dropped balls: "You guys are going to make me say something I shouldn't say so I'm not going to answer that."

 

[zoogs]

Surely we can agree that leadership is one of Tommy's strongest traits without going down this whole speculative, read-between-the-lines, and a little mean-spirited angle about how Taylor wasn't a good leader and guys didn't want to play for him?

 

[The King]

I don't care if you don't like Taylor, but this is pure speculation. Until players start coming out and saying they didn't like him, then why bring this up? This was beat to death a couple years ago when the line was blocking poorly. Until players come forward and say Taylor wasn't a leader, or a bad influence in the locker room, or a poor teammate, don't bring it up. It's pointless.

Especially don't bring it up when tons of players have said exactly the opposite.

It actually isn't speculation.

It's pretty well documented that people welcome the leadership TA brings to the team and it is also well documented how much more willing people were to put their necks out for Tommy in the media - and don't you remember the whole Quincy Enunwa situation with who'd he rather have start or w/e and he pretty much threw TM under the bus?

I actually recall very well how Enunwa was complaining about Martinez throwing a catchable ball ... Right before he proceeded to drop several catchable balls from TA the rest of the season.

I never said TA is better and I never blamed Taylor for being horrific on offense. This all started because someone called out Armstrong for his turnovers yet idolized T-Mart who has one of the worst cases of fumbilitis I've ever seen. Based on this, I just thought TM was limited in what he could do for us based on the offense we ran with him. It limited us to his skill set which was not tailored to getting the ball to our playmakers in space, which is what we need to do. Thats why I'd wager we win more without him, than with him. Eliminating 1.5 fumbles a game or whatever is pretty important.

 

[The King]

Surely we can agree that leadership is one of Tommy's strongest traits without going down this whole speculative, read-between-the-lines, and a little mean-spirited angle about how Taylor wasn't a good leader and guys didn't want to play for him?

Precisely why I asked the question in a previous post:

Do you think chemistry and leadership factor into how a team does? It's not secret that Tommy is a better leader and more vocal than Taylor ever was or will be. That's not a knock on Taylor, it's just a great trait to have in a QB. I happen to think they do factor in.

EDIT - It has nothing to do with not wanting to play for T-Mart, it's about who they would RATHER play with.

 

[Mavric]

All that is fine but has nothing to do with my post. Enunwa dropped a pass or two against Minny then basically blamed Martinez. Then he continued to drop passes without Martinez throwing them. I think his blame was misplaced. Thus I don't put much weight in your argument referencing it.