The Dude
Heisman Trophy Winner
I believe that position is called "offensive coordinator".
Dedicated QB Coach
- Thread starter EmeraldIngot
- Start date
Chaddyboxer
Banned
I say we axe Barney, transfer TE's to Ron Brown and get a QB coach. Disclaimer: I don't believe NEB highly needs a QB coach, yet it could be beneficial considering your QB and offensive line are the two most important position groups on offense IMO.
True2tRA
Banned
Landlord
Banned
Which quarterbacks are you talking about, exactly?
Don't think there is enough data of full careers for you to say they, implying several, get to a point and don't improve, chief.
southernoregonhusker
Starter
We need a QB coach. Bo is a defensive coach. We need somebody who can explain issues to Armstrong in real time. Throwing a pick and then sitting on the bench without some instruction is not good. Bo's not the guy to do it either. He's not nuanced enough. Beck could be that guy but he's not on the field during games.
NUpolo8
Banned
Zac Lee
Joe Ganz
Taylor Martinez
Cody Green
Brion Carnes
Patrick Witt
Danny Bateman
Heisman Trophy Winner
Just to entertain Hunter's point, there are a handful of QBs we could examine, albeit with different career lengths. The problem is, none of them "failing to progress" really falls on the staff.
Ganz was a very good QB, certainly the best passer we've seen during Bo's career here, though he was a poor fit for Beck's spread. Dude had surprising elusiveness but not the wheels you need to run the zone read.
Ditto for ZLee. Decent to good passer, slow as dirt.
TMart was probably the best example Hunter has. Great runner, but his mechanics sucked hard until he sought outside tutoring from Calhoun. In that sense, Beck didn't do him or us any favors. However, Martinez's career progression was also marred by injuries, so it's tough to use him as an example.
TA is still growing and learning at the QB spot. He's akin to TMart in that he's a stronger runner than passer. As a thrower, his mechanics could get cleaned up which would probably make him more consistent on the short to intermediate stuff.he is also obviously prone to a handful of poor decisions per game it seems, usually on the form of not making his progressions and trying to force something he shouldn't.
As for some of the other QBs we've seen, Jamal, Carnes, and Cody Green obviously never materialized. But that's just because they weren't very good QBs. Turner never took QB snaps for us, Green transferred out but did start two years for Tulsa (didn't light the world on fire down there or anything), and Carnes is finishing up his career at UNI as a punt returner.
Jury is still out on Stanton.
And finally, Sam Keller sucked big donkey balls. Captain checkdown and a statue in the pocket. Admittedly, he didn't play for Bo, but I still thought this bore mentioning.
All this really tells me is that Beck seemingly doesn't have the time to work with our QBs improving mechanics and making progressions and the like. He can install an offense and run the show fine for the most part, but we're sorely lacking on some nuances that I believe could be the difference and put us over the proverbial hump.
I also believe a second opinion on the offensive attack and tactics as a whole could be beneficial in-game to provide Beck with feedback when he appears to be trying to get too cute unsuccessfully or just doesn't see a weakness or two that we could exploit.
It would make a world of difference adjusting the gameplan on the field.
Barney has to go. We're curtailing the development of the entire offense by not having a QB coach or passing game coordinator, if you will. Or, if we're hellbent on having a two OL coach staff where Barney coaches the tackles, get rid of Els and tell Pap to coach the damn LBs. Or have Bo do it.
The sad thing is, I'm sure we could field two better OL coaches than Garrison and Barnstache (I actually like JG but the MSU non-subbing was garbage).
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Landlord
Banned
Sorry I thought we were talking about quarterbacks under the current staff.
Seems kind of if not entirely silly to include quarterbacks that spent most if not all of their time under different coaches.
Landlord
Banned
A few things..
1. Ganz, Lee, Keller, Green, Carnes, and etc. were all quarterbacks under different offensive coordinators and qb coaches.
2. Zac Lee ran a 4.6 - just a sliver slower than Armstrong, actually.
3. Taylor showed great progress and growth throughout his career. Especially between his sophomore and junior seasons, he grew a lot as a quarterback, and seemed to be taking another slight step up in quality in the first three games of his senior year (9:1 TD/interception ratio as evidence). Part of that was due to outside coaching, which is common among NCAA D1 quarterbacks across the nation, but that coaching was entirely focused on mechanics. Taylor grew in areas outside of mechanics - he learned to read defenses better, and grew more comfortable and proficient within the offense in his time here. Junior Martinez was trusted to win games with his arm and he delivered, when freshman and sophomore Martinez wouldn't have been able to or trusted to, and that comes down to more than just Calhoun's summer workouts.
4. Tommy has also shown good development and growth thus far in his short and early career. Since Taylor and Tommy have both shown notable improvement at the position, and are the only quarterbacks that have been under Beck and had meaningful minutes, besides Ron Kellogg, who let it be noted performed quite well as a career walk-on backup, I overall disagree with the premise.
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admo
Heisman Trophy Winner
I won't be as polite as Lando. Those Qbs were nice and had some really good moments. None of them showed they could
Hedley Lamarr
All-American
So our coaches lack the ability to recruit the type of QB needed to turn us into a contender? Either way you slice it it falls on the staff
Danny Bateman
Heisman Trophy Winner
1. If we're going to debate QB development as a whole under Bo, those QBs are still relevant. We'd be remiss to leave out the Wats era. But if we want to simply discuss QB development under Beck, then you can toss them out. But it certainly didn't seem Wats was on his way to developing a stud QB during his time here either. And then he goes to Louisville and has Bridgewater. Go figure... Our luck. Not so sure Wats didn't just inherit an NFL QB on that one.
2. Did ZLee ever strike anyone here as a threat on the ground? Every run I remember him making seemed like it was a 3 yard keep, at best. Sure enough, he ran the ball his junior year 103 times for 171 yards. That's a 1.7 yard average. That's about right, after you factor in sacks. It's the classic straight line vs. gamespeed problem. ZLee had no speed in pads.
3/4. I'll concede that TMart and TA have gotten more adept at running the offense since Beck got here. He is to thank for that. However, I believe there's a chicken and egg argument here. Did Taylor become more proficient making reads/running offense his last two years because of Becks and more experience in system, or because Calhoun ironed his godawful mechanics out and that unleashed his potential as a passer? I contend it is much easier to throw a much more consistent ball with good mechanics. Beyond that, who knows if Calhoun worked solely on mechanics? He could've had Taylor run through progressions as well... Wouldn't surprise me.
Obviously he was a better QB his last two years. This debate just hinges on how you think he got there. I think Beck was able to lean on Taylor to lead with his arm BECAUSE OF Calhoun's work.
Likewise, TA has gotten better, but I'm not sure we owe that to any particular magic Beck worked as much as a Frosh starter getting settled into running our offense his first year of starting. I don't believe we owe Beck a friggin medal for doing his job... But overall TA is still too young to reach any kind of conclusion as to his career track and progression, so I'm hopeful.
Kellogg's resume is far to short to make any kind of conclusion as to the effect the offensive staff had on his development. He was a gamer though, scrappy, and I liked the kid.
Overall, the inconsistent play we've seen from our QBs for sometime now, coupled with TMart's noticeable leaps in play coinciding with him seeking extensive outside help, lead me to think we'd be in the best shape as an offense with a QB coach. TA still can't throw a damn swing pass effectively. That needs fixed.
Beck, IMO, is simply asking TA to play in a system that is not suited for the strengths of TA's passing game. TA throws a nice long ball, but sucks at the routes in the flats or screens IMO. Yet Beck continues to call these. Year 2 as a starter and TA still locks on a receiver. Simplifying shouldn't mean "dumbing" down, it should be creating a package that works for your QB more often than not. So far, in the passing game, Beck continues to call passes that more often than not will be incompletions.
Here is some free QB coaching from my recliner.
Me: TA is Westy is going to do a fly route and he is on your right, all I need you to do is snap the ball and immediately look to your left. You have put so much "locking" on receivers on film that there is a great chance, the LB's, CB's and safeties will all run to cover KB on your left. At a minimum, they will think, coach was right, snap, lock and throw. BUT you fool them here, you look to your right and hit a wide open Westy.
TA: You mean I don't need to laser in from the snap????????
Easy stuff, yet TA has not improved in this capacity at all.
That's on Beck 100%. He is about as good of a QB coach as Barney is a TE coach............
Here is some free QB coaching from my recliner.
Me: TA is Westy is going to do a fly route and he is on your right, all I need you to do is snap the ball and immediately look to your left. You have put so much "locking" on receivers on film that there is a great chance, the LB's, CB's and safeties will all run to cover KB on your left. At a minimum, they will think, coach was right, snap, lock and throw. BUT you fool them here, you look to your right and hit a wide open Westy.
TA: You mean I don't need to laser in from the snap????????
Easy stuff, yet TA has not improved in this capacity at all.
That's on Beck 100%. He is about as good of a QB coach as Barney is a TE coach............
Danny Bateman
Heisman Trophy Winner
Agree with almost all of that Lo. Clearly TA could improve in leaps and bounds just by looking off coverage.
The problem is, eventually, to be a truly domindominant team, we're going to need him to improve on that short to intermediate stuff. We won't be able to beat the best of the best if he's a one trick pony, regardless of how good he is at his trick.
If a team takes away the run and he can't hit shorter stuff, we're hosed.
The problem is, eventually, to be a truly domindominant team, we're going to need him to improve on that short to intermediate stuff. We won't be able to beat the best of the best if he's a one trick pony, regardless of how good he is at his trick.
If a team takes away the run and he can't hit shorter stuff, we're hosed.
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