Bo and Beck
- Thread starter I am I
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Stumpy1
All-American
As far as your Bo remark...I disagree
The part about Beck has also crossed my mind. I have put my tin foil hat on a couple times and have come up with similar thoughts. If that is what he is doing, I think it's smart but also dumb at the same time. He is risking a loss in order to work on things for the big game coming up in 2 weeks and I don't agree with that. He is also putting new things on film for Wisky to worry about and I do like that.
Good post above. So teams see Cross and think inside. Who cares. Better than trying him outside on a toss sweep. Same with Newby. Team cluing in on "certain" plays/players allows the multiplicity. Cross? Fake the dive and hit the TE across the middle (if we used a TE). Or PA, or designed QB run.....No different than teams completely ignoring our TE's or using 4-5 wide and D's knowing wherever TA initially looks there goes the ball......
Beck doesn't/hasn't called plays to the strength of anyone consistently unless you count him calling the craptastic plays in his head.......
I really used to believe this, but realize that Beck is not that smart. He just continually calls whatever comes into his head regardless if it sets up a play, puts stuff on film or messes up our rhythm or isn't even within a guys wheelhouse. He doesn't even flow form one series to the next. He plays checkers while good OC's call chess......
Maybe one day he will be great OC. But he needs a QB who can throw.....
True2tRA
Banned
Could you tell me in more "dumb guy" terms what ou mean as far as telegraphing our intent, especially what you mean as in calling plays that neutralize our strengths, because I believe we do a lot of this.
As far as New England, New England's offense is so spectacularly confusing. So many moving parts, the same looks, but different things happening each different time you see it.
Of course, McDaniels and Belichek have a reputation. Tom Brady is pretty phenomenal. You guys are the kings of pick routes, and offensive pass interference, much like Denver, only better at it. Best thing about New England, they use their TE's and they run short routes, curls, outs, and crossing routes. They throw short dump passes all over the place. It's masterful to watch, especially against my Broncos the other night.
Nebraska does none of these things. Matter of fact, I believe our WR's are still streaking upfield waiting for Tommy to hit them deep.
zoogs
Assistant Coach
True, what I mean with telegraphing is when Imani's in, you know we're running a certain set of plays and when Newby's in, you know we're running another set of plays. That's not ideal, but it's better than asking Imani to run a Newby/Ameer role, for example, which I think we saw against Purdue as our 20-carry back of the day averaged under 4 YPC.
That makes no sense, and it doesn't really go on Beck alone. It seems like the team has a clear philosophy that everyone is expected to do every job, so Beck calls the plays not worried about who is in there and Brown subs RBs in and out expecting them to handle any call. To me, there has to be a better system.
New England is a gameplan offense. So there are some opponents where they'll say OK, this is what we want to establish, and the gameplan by design goes really heavy on Vereen (as was the case vs the Broncos). Other times it's a heavy dosage of Gray or Ridley (as was the case vs the Bears). And sometimes the game unfolds in a way quite unlike how you draw it up (as was the case vs the Chiefs, which I think was meant to be Ridley-heavy).
So what I'm saying is, why not acknowledge that Imani is our bruising inside runner, and Newby and Ameer are speed guys and have our offense take on a different look when each is in the game, for the most part?
Of course, a sophisticated NFL offense isn't an apples-to-apples comparison, but it's just an example of an operation that uses its different weapons in different ways.
That makes no sense, and it doesn't really go on Beck alone. It seems like the team has a clear philosophy that everyone is expected to do every job, so Beck calls the plays not worried about who is in there and Brown subs RBs in and out expecting them to handle any call. To me, there has to be a better system.
New England is a gameplan offense. So there are some opponents where they'll say OK, this is what we want to establish, and the gameplan by design goes really heavy on Vereen (as was the case vs the Broncos). Other times it's a heavy dosage of Gray or Ridley (as was the case vs the Bears). And sometimes the game unfolds in a way quite unlike how you draw it up (as was the case vs the Chiefs, which I think was meant to be Ridley-heavy).
So what I'm saying is, why not acknowledge that Imani is our bruising inside runner, and Newby and Ameer are speed guys and have our offense take on a different look when each is in the game, for the most part?
Of course, a sophisticated NFL offense isn't an apples-to-apples comparison, but it's just an example of an operation that uses its different weapons in different ways.
The Dude
Heisman Trophy Winner
I wouldn't be surprised at all if both of those teams had more simplistic offenses overall, but just running game? Not so sure. Maybe Oregon does, but their philosophy is hurry-up and snap the ball before the defense can get set. Which Nebraska doesn't really utilize. We do some up-tempo stuff, but we usually leave plenty of time for defenses to get set. Auburn's offense I love. More of a power running game than Nebraska, with more misdirection.
Honestly, I'd prefer a style more like Alabama or Wisconsin or Stanford (although it's not cool to say Stanford right now). Again, just personal preference, not something I suspect will happen under Bo.
It seems like with Becks offense it's a fairly complex passing game with a few running plays. Which doesn't make much sense for a team that wants to be run-heavy.
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True, not addressed to me, but just my opinion. Beck just refuses to acknowledge he calls to his strengths (knowledge) and not the strength of the guys he has. He wants Tom Brady, but has Cam Newton or Colin Kapernick. Panthers fan here. Rivera is trying to make him a pocket passer instead of being Cam IMO......
True2tRA
Banned
Ah, I understand and I agree. Especially with the part about using specific players in specific sets and scenarios. As much as we all love Abdullah, that first and goal would have looked a lot more logical in the I formation with Cross at RB. Or even the possibility of Cross lined up at FB with Abdullah behind him. Not a HUGE wrinkle, but personnel wise, it forces a defense to be accountable.
This is a strength of Belicheks in my opinion. Everyone wants to talk about big stars and playmakers, but Belichek has built his team around few. He's made players look like stars. Year in and out they are brilliant. Why? Because I think Belichek is a mastermind of establishing a players strenths and utilizing them.
So if New England is a gameplan offense, are they game planning for specific matchups? Pitting their strengths against the opposing teams weaknesses. I don't watch enough of New England, but I didn't realize Denver had so many exposable weaknesses.
Do you see this as something Beck does, has done, or seems capable of doing?
Lastly, the quote from the announcers in the Miami game.
"All the dancing, talking and fighting and they shoved it in their face with the running game"
What happened to that OL and play calling? I really thought that the game (scheme) clicked for beck and he had finally his (our) identity.......
"All the dancing, talking and fighting and they shoved it in their face with the running game"
What happened to that OL and play calling? I really thought that the game (scheme) clicked for beck and he had finally his (our) identity.......
zoogs
Assistant Coach
Dude, I wouldn't say our pass game is complex. The Kansas pass game under Mangino wasn't exactly Stanford pro-style complex, right? It was just effective under Reesing. And our passing game isn't that yet, it's more simple by necessity.
Really don't think there's that much complicated about this offense. A lot of poor execution and questionable development (caveat, we need to see how the season plays out, as anyone who follows well, anyone else knows
).
I do think our concept of having QB and WR both making reads is...problematic at this point. The mistakes that come from this can be so spectacular. I'd love to see a future where we bring in a new QBs coach and Beck gets to run the full offense he wants with a veteran QB at the helm. Don't know if that's going to happen, though.
Really don't think there's that much complicated about this offense. A lot of poor execution and questionable development (caveat, we need to see how the season plays out, as anyone who follows well, anyone else knows
I do think our concept of having QB and WR both making reads is...problematic at this point. The mistakes that come from this can be so spectacular. I'd love to see a future where we bring in a new QBs coach and Beck gets to run the full offense he wants with a veteran QB at the helm. Don't know if that's going to happen, though.
zoogs
Assistant Coach
I don't know, the previous week Ameer scored three touchdowns this way, right? But almost everything we did against Purdue looked uninspired.
Gameplan offense means they aren't a "this is what we do" offense, they're changing every single week as the coaching staff puts together a plan based on that week's opponent. So that's how you get a heavy workload for one RB one week, and then he disappears the next. Same for them on defense, and if you're interested there's a good ESPN Boston article on how they approached Denver & Manning. One example, CB Kyle Arrington has barely played in recent weeks, and then was put on Wes Welker for Denver.
I don't expect the same level of sophistication from a college team, but surely Nebraska can do a better job of having guys be "role players" and maximizing them that way. I don't see us doing this, I see them having a stated & executed philosophy of any player at the position should interchangeably play the same role in the offense. Which is how Ameer goes down, and next-man-up Imani goes in and gets 20 carries for 60 yards running the same offense.
Honestly, though, if Tommy, etc especially didn't have such a disastrous game, this wouldn't even be an issue this week. That game could easily have been another strong performance from an offense (with the same weaknesses we're currently discussing) against a lesser opponent. So maybe everything should just start with not having your best players play so sloppy. Westerkamp running two wrong routes leading to interceptions, Kenny Bell with some bad drops, etc...it was a lot of execution issues too.
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True2tRA
Banned
That Kansas passing attack barely resembles what we are doing right now. There was timing. How can we have timing right now when the QB and the WR are both making reads and each could be different. To me, this offense is complex BECAUSE of this concept, more than any of it's other concepts. It adds an unneeded hesitation and variable to every passing down. We have WR's that want to take every ball to the house and they run their routes accordingly. We have a QB that seems happy to try to oblige them. Still, I can't force myself to think Tommy is the weak link in all this. I've seen the kid do plenty of great things. He's just losing his comfort out there. He used to have it. It's baffling to me, it's supposed to go the other way around. The more you play and the more you see, the more comfortable you're supposed to get. The mental nightmares with this team......troubling.
NUpolo8
Banned
Stanford is still cool in my eyes, they were going to be a little down this year and they have the schedule of death.
If they got stupid and cut Shaw loose NU should back the Brinks truck up.