If Stephen Fry Met God . . .

[The Dude]

If it was up to you, would you have created pediatric bone cancer?

I wouldn't have.

Some people think that things such as this came into the world as a result of man pulling away from God. That the evil in the world today would not be present if we had chosen to follow God instead of Satan. Would you have given man the choice to choose God, or not to choose God? Perhaps God should not have given us the ability to make this choice.

Yes, I'd give the ability. I also wouldn't he so concerned with people pulling away with me that I felt it necessary to give little kids cancer.
I don't suspect I would be all that concerned with people worshiping me in the first place. That seems to be more of a human need than a godly one.

 

[Landlord]

If it was up to you, would you have created pediatric bone cancer?

I wouldn't have.

Some people think that things such as this came into the world as a result of man pulling away from God. That the evil in the world today would not be present if we had chosen to follow God instead of Satan. Would you have given man the choice to choose God, or not to choose God? Perhaps God should not have given us the ability to make this choice.

Yes, I'd give the ability. I also wouldn't he so concerned with people pulling away with me that I felt it necessary to give little kids cancer.
I don't suspect I would be all that concerned with people worshiping me in the first place. That seems to be more of a human need than a godly one.

Ah, the old "if a deity exists then I demand that, despite my ignorance as an illogical temporal creature that only perceives the tiniest sliver of the entirety of the vastness of the universe, said deity operates under the pretenses of my consciousness and understanding" argument.

Like a child throwing a fit because your parents won't let you ride your bike in the streets or let you binge on candy all day.

 

[Landlord]

Biocentrism? Or does Russell Brand have a book I haven't heard of?

I've been trying to get my hands on a copy of Biocentrism; weird that it came onto my radar from a number of different independent directions all at the same time.

 

[Husker_x]

A new one that came out last year sometime. Revolution.

 

[Landlord]

Any good?

 

[The Dude]

If it was up to you, would you have created pediatric bone cancer?

I wouldn't have.

Some people think that things such as this came into the world as a result of man pulling away from God. That the evil in the world today would not be present if we had chosen to follow God instead of Satan. Would you have given man the choice to choose God, or not to choose God? Perhaps God should not have given us the ability to make this choice.

Yes, I'd give the ability. I also wouldn't he so concerned with people pulling away with me that I felt it necessary to give little kids cancer.
I don't suspect I would be all that concerned with people worshiping me in the first place. That seems to be more of a human need than a godly one.

Ah, the old "if a deity exists then I demand that, despite my ignorance as an illogical temporal creature that only perceives the tiniest sliver of the entirety of the vastness of the universe, said deity operates under the pretenses of my consciousness and understanding" argument.

Like a child throwing a fit because your parents won't let you ride your bike in the streets or let you binge on candy all day.

No.
It's the "if I created the universe and every thing in it, and made all the rules, I would choose not to give children cancer, because I'm not a maniacal thug" argument.

I demand nothing. I'm just saying my universe would be way more kick a$$.

 

[Husker_x]

Yeah. Only about a third of the way in. He's a very good writer, and there is a lot of thoughtfulness on a lot of levels that some casual glance style reviews don't appreciate. There is also a tendency to leapfrog around on a lot of heavy topics––making his treatment a little shallow in places––and a bit of 'god of the gaps' logic. He practices Transcendental Meditation––so take that for what it's worth. His take on celebrity is worth the read.

 

[NUance]

If it was up to you, would you have created pediatric bone cancer?

I wouldn't have.

Some people think that things such as this came into the world as a result of man pulling away from God. That the evil in the world today would not be present if we had chosen to follow God instead of Satan. Would you have given man the choice to choose God, or not to choose God? Perhaps God should not have given us the ability to make this choice.

Yes, I'd give the ability. I also wouldn't he so concerned with people pulling away with me that I felt it necessary to give little kids cancer.
I don't suspect I would be all that concerned with people worshiping me in the first place. That seems to be more of a human need than a godly one.

What if it wasn't God that introduced pediatric bone cancer into the world? Some people believe that much of the world's evil is from Satan. Would it make a difference if pediatric bone cancer and other such evils were caused by Satan in an effort to further separate us from God? Should God have prevented Satan from that? Should God prevent people from doing evil too? That is, should God take away our choice to do whatever we want, and instead limit us to only doing good? (If so, I sure hope He doesn't take away whiskey and cigars. LOL)

 

[The Dude]

Are we saying Satan is as powerful (or more powerful) than God?

Seems like an easy cop out, but it would prove that God isn't all-powerful and didn't create everything after all.

 

[NUance]

Are we saying Satan is as powerful (or more powerful) than God?

Seems like an easy cop out, but it would prove that God isn't all-powerful and didn't create everything after all.

Of course the answer is no. I have absolutely no idea how you could read my post and reach that conclusion. Oh well.

 

[knapplc]

What if it wasn't God that introduced pediatric bone cancer into the world? Some people believe that much of the world's evil is from Satan. Would it make a difference if pediatric bone cancer and other such evils were caused by Satan in an effort to further separate us from God? Should God have prevented Satan from that? Should God prevent people from doing evil too? That is, should God take away our choice to do whatever we want, and instead limit us to only doing good? (If so, I sure hope He doesn't take away whiskey and cigars. LOL)

There shouldn't be a world in the first place. The point of this world is that Man lives his life by God's rules, and if we're good and do everything right, we get to go live in Heaven forever with him.

This "life on Earth" step was never necessary for God. God could have (being omnipotent) created us in Heaven without the capacity or desire for Sin. God did not need to give us that ability, God chose to give us that ability, tempted Adam beyond his simpleton's ability to overcome, and damned billions and billions and billions of people to life on a sinful Earth as a result of one man's choice.

Think about that. Everyone in history, ever, has to suffer because one man made a bad choice.

Would everyone, having been given Adam's start in Eden, have made exactly the same choice as Adam? Of those billions and billions of people, how many wouldn't have? 100 million? 1 million? 10,000? However many it is, every one of those potentially innocent people has been condemned to suffer on Earth by God because of some crackpot rule made in the depths of time.

Even presuming you believe that no Man, starting from Adam's "perfect and pure" standpoint, could have foregone sin throughout his life, that still doesn't answer why the Forbidden Fruit was ever put there in the first place. When I was Christian my old fallback was "freedom will," but even this flies in the face of the concept of a loving God. No parent who loves their child would, when they are a toddler, put them in a room with a bowl of Smarties, tell the child they can't have one, then leave and expect the toddler to not even touch them. It's absurd, and beggars belief that this is the story we're accepting as the explanation for why we all must live in a world of pediatric cancer.

 

[HuskerShark]

So you know that question about what would you say to God if you met him at the pearly gates? Stephen Fry has a pretty cogent answer.

The entitlement of this guy is unreal...

 

[HuskerShark]

What if it wasn't God that introduced pediatric bone cancer into the world? Some people believe that much of the world's evil is from Satan. Would it make a difference if pediatric bone cancer and other such evils were caused by Satan in an effort to further separate us from God? Should God have prevented Satan from that? Should God prevent people from doing evil too? That is, should God take away our choice to do whatever we want, and instead limit us to only doing good? (If so, I sure hope He doesn't take away whiskey and cigars. LOL)

There shouldn't be a world in the first place. The point of this world is that Man lives his life by God's rules, and if we're good and do everything right, we get to go live in Heaven forever with him.

That's not at all what the Bible lays out as the way to Heaven.

 

[NUance]

What if it wasn't God that introduced pediatric bone cancer into the world? Some people believe that much of the world's evil is from Satan. Would it make a difference if pediatric bone cancer and other such evils were caused by Satan in an effort to further separate us from God? Should God have prevented Satan from that? Should God prevent people from doing evil too? That is, should God take away our choice to do whatever we want, and instead limit us to only doing good? (If so, I sure hope He doesn't take away whiskey and cigars. LOL)

There shouldn't be a world in the first place. The point of this world is that Man lives his life by God's rules, and if we're good and do everything right, we get to go live in Heaven forever with him.

This "life on Earth" step was never necessary for God. God could have (being omnipotent) created us in Heaven without the capacity or desire for Sin. God did not need to give us that ability, God chose to give us that ability, tempted Adam beyond his simpleton's ability to overcome, and damned billions and billions and billions of people to life on a sinful Earth as a result of one man's choice.

Think about that. Everyone in history, ever, has to suffer because one man made a bad choice.

Would everyone, having been given Adam's start in Eden, have made exactly the same choice as Adam? Of those billions and billions of people, how many wouldn't have? 100 million? 1 million? 10,000? However many it is, every one of those potentially innocent people has been condemned to suffer on Earth by God because of some crackpot rule made in the depths of time.

Maybe. Or maybe God wanted to give people the choice to be with him, or not. Maybe the world is more like a filter. Filtering out the people who choose not to believe in Him and follow Him, from those who do. But I guess what you're saying is that, since God is omniscient and all powerful why didn't he just skip over creating the people who choose not to follow him? I dunno the answer to that.

These things are hard for me to wrap my head around. But that's why I keep thinking and studying them. I mean, God created all this knowing how it would turn out. After all, He's the Alpha and the Omega. He already knows whose names are written in the book. And whose names aren't. Some of the theories I've come up with are pretty, well let's say, wild. But really, neither me nor anyone else truly has all the answers. We can't.

The thing is, there's just no way we can hope to see things from God's perspective. Since we're not remotely close to being omniscient, we really can't come close to knowing the full extent of God's plans or desires for humanity. As smart as we humans think we are, we're really just scratching the surface of knowledge.

Even presuming you believe that no Man, starting from Adam's "perfect and pure" standpoint, could have foregone sin throughout his life, that still doesn't answer why the Forbidden Fruit was ever put there in the first place. When I was Christian my old fallback was "freedom will," but even this flies in the face of the concept of a loving God. No parent who loves their child would, when they are a toddler, put them in a room with a bowl of Smarties, tell the child they can't have one, then leave and expect the toddler to not even touch them. It's absurd, and beggars belief that this is the story we're accepting as the explanation for why we all must live in a world of pediatric cancer.

As for this, your metaphor leaves something to be desired. As I understand it, Eden was quite a place. It should be more like: No parent would put their child in a huge shopping mall where every store had candy, drinks, food and delicacies from all over the world, and in one kiosk there was a small bag of candy that he told us not to eat.

 

[knapplc]

What if it wasn't God that introduced pediatric bone cancer into the world? Some people believe that much of the world's evil is from Satan. Would it make a difference if pediatric bone cancer and other such evils were caused by Satan in an effort to further separate us from God? Should God have prevented Satan from that? Should God prevent people from doing evil too? That is, should God take away our choice to do whatever we want, and instead limit us to only doing good? (If so, I sure hope He doesn't take away whiskey and cigars. LOL)

There shouldn't be a world in the first place. The point of this world is that Man lives his life by God's rules, and if we're good and do everything right, we get to go live in Heaven forever with him.

That's not at all what the Bible lays out as the way to Heaven.

I understand why this response deflected away from the actual point in the rest of that post. That point is incontrovertible, and therefore uncomfortable. Far easier to argue semantics than address the fact that God had no need to put Man on Earth, could have created Man happy and suffer-free in Heaven, but chose (as the story goes) to put Man on Earth with the full foreknowledge that Man would suffer miserably, and many, many, many of the humans God loves are damned to Hell as a result.