Camping Out: Quarterbacks

[True2tRA]

What will change by mid-season that makes you think they will become more talented than they are now, and what will we see as any evidence of it?

Who said they wouldn't improve?

True, in fairness to BigRedBuster, the way you worded your question made it seem like you didn't believe they'd improve. Both of these quotes are from you. I know you intended to say something else but it didn't come off that way.

The way I asked him a question, made it sound like I was making a statement? Speaking through this keyboard is a very difficult thing.

To be completely honest, I was simply asking Redux a question because I was curious of his opinion on it. I guess I don't get how anything came across as me stating my opinion on it. It was a question.

I think pretty highly of Fyfe already. I think Darlington is a damn good QB too. The only one of the bunch I haven't seen anything to be impressed with is A.J. Bush. So the fact is, I not only was questioning how he thought they would a talented stable of QB's by mid-season, and what he would see from them to make him think so, but I disagree with the entire premise of his statement to begin with. I think those guys are pretty talented QB's to begin with.

I think there were some assumptions made instead of just taking my comment at what was typed.

And, all I did was ask..."why wouldn't they improve" and then gave reasoning as to why I think they should and will improve.

Seems to me that you jumped down my throat and acted like my comments were so insulting and you basically did what you're accusing me of.

Why wouldn't they improve seems like an odd question considering nobody insinuated they wouldn't, but whatever.

I think they should and will improve too, but I don't think we will ever truly see any evidence of that this season, unless like I said, Tommy is injured.

Did I jump down your throat? Hmmph, who'd a thunk it. Didn't mean to. I think we were disagreeing in another thread and I was kind of tired of debating with you. My bad. I'll try no too jump down your internet throat anymore.

 

[Redux]

For the record I don't think we have an untalented QB on the roster. Each has his own set of skills. Darlington reads defenses well, Tommy can make plays on his feet, AJ oozes raw talent and Fyfe balances out in most areas.

But for all that talent: Darlington doesnt have the arm strength/injury concerns, Tommy misses open guys, AJ needs a lot of work and Fyfe has probably hit his ceiling.

My whole point is that sure, we hear this and that from practice. We know what each one of them does well and doesn't do well. But let us not forget they are learning a new system. So all this practice talk is just that, talk. None of these guys have gotten any reps in real games in this system, or in the backups cases, gotten to watch any of it play out on the field.

So, when I say we have a better QB stable by mid season I simply meant that most will benefit greatly from participating and or watching the actual product take shape. Playbooks and practices are great, but the actual game situation is where the real player comes out.

 

[Mierin]

AJ oozes

Gross

 

[Enhance]

What will change by mid-season that makes you think they will become more talented than they are now, and what will we see as any evidence of it?

Who said they wouldn't improve?

True, in fairness to BigRedBuster, the way you worded your question made it seem like you didn't believe they'd improve. Both of these quotes are from you. I know you intended to say something else but it didn't come off that way.

The way I asked him a question, made it sound like I was making a statement? Speaking through this keyboard is a very difficult thing.

To be completely honest, I was simply asking Redux a question because I was curious of his opinion on it. I guess I don't get how anything came across as me stating my opinion on it. It was a question.

I think pretty highly of Fyfe already. I think Darlington is a damn good QB too. The only one of the bunch I haven't seen anything to be impressed with is A.J. Bush. So the fact is, I not only was questioning how he thought they would a talented stable of QB's by mid-season, and what he would see from them to make him think so, but I disagree with the entire premise of his statement to begin with. I think those guys are pretty talented QB's to begin with.

I think there were some assumptions made instead of just taking my comment at what was typed.

Thus is the folly of the internet - I personally looked at the way you italicized and organized your words and drew skepticism from that, and so did others. It doesn't really matter now, though - you've stated your point of view.

 

[Redux]

AJ oozes

Gross

You love it.

 

[BellyOption]

What has me baffled is Darlington. He went from being no. 2 in the spring to no. 4 in fall ball. Must be having a terrible camp.

I'm with you. He looked the most comfortable and natural in the spring game. From my understanding, he wasn't given much of a shot when fall camp started. It's like the coaches decided he wasn't their guy or something. Didn't play any plays in the first two scrimmages. Would be interested in knowing why he wasn't getting the number of reps the other two were.

 

[Mavric]

What has me baffled is Darlington. He went from being no. 2 in the spring to no. 4 in fall ball. Must be having a terrible camp.

I'm with you. He looked the most comfortable and natural in the spring game. From my understanding, he wasn't given much of a shot when fall camp started. It's like the coaches decided he wasn't their guy or something. Didn't play any plays in the first two scrimmages. Would be interested in knowing why he wasn't getting the number of reps the other two were.

He was given plenty of shots. From what everyone hears his arm strength isn't good enough to get it done. If you don't have the physical tools to get it done then what can you do?

I mean ... I realize the coaches see a lot more than we do. But I have a hard time buying that his arm is that deficient.

I know it's just one play but look at this play from the spring game. It at the 1:30 mark. He's rolling left and drops a dime about 45 yards down the field. And that's with really setting his feet. If you can put it on the money at 45-50 yards, that's plenty of arm strength. I'm sure TA can throw it faster and farther and that's definitely a plus. But if you can anticipate throws like we've heard many times Darlington can, you can make up for a little lack of arm strength with anticipation and precision.

 

[Mavric]

Plus this caught my eye earlier....

 

[Enhance]

What has me baffled is Darlington. He went from being no. 2 in the spring to no. 4 in fall ball. Must be having a terrible camp.

I'm with you. He looked the most comfortable and natural in the spring game. From my understanding, he wasn't given much of a shot when fall camp started. It's like the coaches decided he wasn't their guy or something. Didn't play any plays in the first two scrimmages. Would be interested in knowing why he wasn't getting the number of reps the other two were.

He was given plenty of shots. From what everyone hears his arm strength isn't good enough to get it done. If you don't have the physical tools to get it done then what can you do?

I mean ... I realize the coaches see a lot more than we do. But I have a hard time buying that his arm is that deficient.

I know it's just one play but look at this play from the spring game. It at the 1:30 mark. He's rolling left and drops a dime about 45 yards down the field. And that's with really setting his feet. If you can put it on the money at 45-50 yards, that's plenty of arm strength. I'm sure TA can throw it faster and farther and that's definitely a plus. But if you can anticipate throws like we've heard many times Darlington can, you can make up for a little lack of arm strength with anticipation and precision.

Arm strength doesn't necessarily mean being able to chuck the ball 45 yards down field. This is a very common misunderstanding, that arm strength means how far you can toss a ball and be accurate. A lot of quarterbacks can chuck a ball 45 yards down field.

Arm strength comes down to being able to make a variety of throws, in a variety of situations, with accuracy. We had a guy on my high school team who could throw deep passes like you wouldn't believe and had insane accuracy with them. But, if you asked him to throw from the right hash to the other side of the field on a comeback route, he couldn't do it. His accuracy faltered and his passes didn't have the right touch on them.

Arm strength or not, there could be a multitude of reasons Darlington has fallen down the depth chart. I disagree with BellyOption's notion that he wasn't given a shot. He's been given plenty of shots, as have the other quarterbacks. For whatever reason, he's not where the coaches need him to be. And as Mavric mentioned, they see a hell of a lot more than we do.

 

[Mavric]

Arm strength doesn't necessarily mean being able to chuck the ball 45 yards down field. This is a very common misunderstanding, that arm strength means how far you can toss a ball and be accurate. A lot of quarterbacks can chuck a ball 45 yards down field.

Arm strength comes down to being able to make a variety of throws, in a variety of situations, with accuracy. We had a guy on my high school team who could throw deep passes like you wouldn't believe and had insane accuracy with them. But, if you asked him to throw from the right hash to the other side of the field on a comeback route, he couldn't do it. His accuracy faltered and his passes didn't have the right touch on them.

Arm strength or not, there could be a multitude of reasons Darlington has fallen down the depth chart. I disagree with BellyOption's notion that he wasn't given a shot. He's been given plenty of shots, as have the other quarterbacks. For whatever reason, he's not where the coaches need him to be. And as Mavric mentioned, they see a hell of a lot more than we do.

This is exactly my point. A lot of times it is brought up that Darlington lacks arm strength. While I'm sure this is true to some extent, I'm not sure that functionally it makes much difference. I'd much rather have a guy who can throw an accurate ball at 40-50 yards than a guy who can chuck it 70 but is hit-and-miss.

And I'm not saying that it means Darlington should be the starter. But I'm a little surprised he's that far down the list. From most first-hand accounts, Bush has not looked very good this fall but has still gotten more reps. Most observers have said Darlington has looked good when he's gotten a chance but has gotten very few reps. And one guy who's watched most practices says he's surprised at how few reps Darlington's gotten because to him he's been the best of the backups.

Again, obviously the coaches have seen much more than even the guys who are watching practice. There are likely other things. But it just seems odd that he looked like far and away the best QB in the spring game and seems to be at least as good as any of the other backups from the practice reports but apparently gets basically no reps.

 

[Enhance]

Arm strength doesn't necessarily mean being able to chuck the ball 45 yards down field. This is a very common misunderstanding, that arm strength means how far you can toss a ball and be accurate. A lot of quarterbacks can chuck a ball 45 yards down field.

Arm strength comes down to being able to make a variety of throws, in a variety of situations, with accuracy. We had a guy on my high school team who could throw deep passes like you wouldn't believe and had insane accuracy with them. But, if you asked him to throw from the right hash to the other side of the field on a comeback route, he couldn't do it. His accuracy faltered and his passes didn't have the right touch on them.

Arm strength or not, there could be a multitude of reasons Darlington has fallen down the depth chart. I disagree with BellyOption's notion that he wasn't given a shot. He's been given plenty of shots, as have the other quarterbacks. For whatever reason, he's not where the coaches need him to be. And as Mavric mentioned, they see a hell of a lot more than we do.

This is exactly my point. A lot of times it is brought up that Darlington lacks arm strength. While I'm sure this is true to some extent, I'm not sure that functionally it makes much difference. I'd much rather have a guy who can throw an accurate ball at 40-50 yards than a guy who can chuck it 70 but is hit-and-miss.

And I'm not saying that it means Darlington should be the starter. But I'm a little surprised he's that far down the list. From most first-hand accounts, Bush has not looked very good this fall but has still gotten more reps. Most observers have said Darlington has looked good when he's gotten a chance but has gotten very few reps. And one guy who's watched most practices says he's surprised at how few reps Darlington's gotten because to him he's been the best of the backups.

Again, obviously the coaches have seen much more than even the guys who are watching practice. There are likely other things. But it just seems odd that he looked like far and away the best QB in the spring game and seems to be at least as good as any of the other backups from the practice reports but apparently gets basically no reps.

Well, perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. What I was saying is he may have that 40-50 yard strength/accuracy combo, but, if he can't throw something like a cross-the-body comeback route with strength/accuracy, then he doesn't really have good "arm strength." This, at least in my opinion, would functionally make a difference.

I definitely agree with you on the other counts, and I too thought he looked pretty good in the spring. Since we don't get to watch practices we can only speculate. But, I'm merely wondering if his "arm strength" is lacking when it comes to all the throws, not just deep hail mary type throws.

 

[Mavric]

Well, perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. What I was saying is he may have that 40-50 yard strength/accuracy combo, but, if he can't throw something like a cross-the-body comeback route with strength/accuracy, then he doesn't really have good "arm strength." This, at least in my opinion, would functionally make a difference.

I definitely agree with you on the other counts, and I too thought he looked pretty good in the spring. Since we don't get to watch practices we can only speculate. But, I'm merely wondering if his "arm strength" is lacking when it comes to all the throws, not just deep hail mary type throws.

Yeah, there is more to arm strength that just how far you can throw it. And I'm sure he doesn't get the deep out ball there as quickly as TA does, or probably Bush either.

But that's also why I said you can (somewhat) make up a lack of arm strength with better anticipation, which Darlington has been reported to have on numerous occasions. If you throw the deep out a half second before someone else does because you anticipate better, the ball gets there at the same time relative to when the receiver makes his break.

Those are obviously things we haven't seen enough of to know for sure. I'm just curious if "arm strength" is the main reason or what the story is. Obviously we'll probably never know. And just going off the spring game is a very small sample size. But from what I saw there - which is the only thing us average fans have to compare all of them - Darlington seemed to do a lot of things better than everyone else - work through his progressions, deliver an accurate ball, complete a high percentage - that would seem, to me, to make up for not having the strongest arm. And those sentiments have generally been echoed by the guys who've watched a decent amount of practices in the spring and fall - that Darlington looks like the best of the bunch in those areas. And I'd personally take them over arm strength. It would just be fun to be able to know more about what all goes into the decision ... but that's not going to happen.

 

[True2tRA]

There's something with Darlington's situation that we just don't know. That's the only explanation I can find for it.

Small sample size or not, he looked very, very good in that spring game. His comfort level and decision making are through the roof. He could probably teach Tommy a few things in that aspect. Now Darlington doesn't have the physical tools Tommy has, but the average Joe fan that I am still says there's no way Darlington is the fourth best QB we've got. I like Fyfe, but I'd think Darlington is right there with him battling for that backup spot.

 

[Landlord]

Unrelated to any actual points being made, 'arm strength' is probably one of the most nuanced and complicated things that exist but are surmised as a single value.

 

[The Dude]

Do we have any reason to believe The Staff ever had Darlington #2? He was #3 as of the spring game and #4 as of fall camp.