Uh oh. Even coach Cav is calling out the OL.

[Hujan]

Part of it is kids now are softer than ever

Kids are softer, but so is society as a whole. Criticism is taboo now. Just look at HuskerMax. It's a mortal sin to call out a player on that board.

It's always been and always will be taboo to call out ANYONE personally on a bulletin board. This is a place for discussion...not personal attacks. If you think it's unfair you might want to stop visiting to avoid being frustrated each time.

I can't tell if you're serious or not. By that standard, we'd never be able to lament a QB throwing four picks in a game because it would constitute a "personal attack."

Literally all we could say is, "Ya know, that Tommy fella seems like a real fine guy and seems to really play hard and fire those guys up," because it would be an "attack" to also point out that his mechanics and decision-making are questionable at times.

I mean, what is this, a sitcom in the 1950s?

 

[NU jumper alum]

Part of it is kids now are softer than ever

Kids are softer, but so is society as a whole. Criticism is taboo now. Just look at HuskerMax. It's a mortal sin to call out a player on that board.

It's always been and always will be taboo to call out ANYONE personally on a bulletin board. This is a place for discussion...not personal attacks. If you think it's unfair you might want to stop visiting to avoid being frustrated each time.

It's think he meant calling out another poster

I can't tell if you're serious or not. By that standard, we'd never be able to lament a QB throwing four picks in a game because it would constitute a "personal attack."

Literally all we could say is, "Ya know, that Tommy fella seems like a real fine guy and seems to really play hard and fire those guys up," because it would be an "attack" to also point out that his mechanics and decision-making are questionable at times.

I mean, what is this, a sitcom in the 1950s?

 

[Saunders]

Part of it is kids now are softer than ever

Kids are softer, but so is society as a whole. Criticism is taboo now. Just look at HuskerMax. It's a mortal sin to call out a player on that board.

It's always been and always will be taboo to call out ANYONE personally on a bulletin board. This is a place for discussion...not personal attacks. If you think it's unfair you might want to stop visiting to avoid being frustrated each time.

I can't tell if you're serious or not. By that standard, we'd never be able to lament a QB throwing four picks in a game because it would constitute a "personal attack."

Literally all we could say is, "Ya know, that Tommy fella seems like a real fine guy and seems to really play hard and fire those guys up," because it would be an "attack" to also point out that his mechanics and decision-making are questionable at times.

I mean, what is this, a sitcom in the 1950s?

I think it's safe to stay that there's a difference between "he played a terrible game" and "he's stupid and retarded and anyone who disagrees is a jacka$$."

 

[cm husker]

Part of it is kids now are softer than ever

Kids are softer, but so is society as a whole. Criticism is taboo now. Just look at HuskerMax. It's a mortal sin to call out a player on that board.

It's always been and always will be taboo to call out ANYONE personally on a bulletin board. This is a place for discussion...not personal attacks. If you think it's unfair you might want to stop visiting to avoid being frustrated each time.

I can't tell if you're serious or not. By that standard, we'd never be able to lament a QB throwing four picks in a game because it would constitute a "personal attack."
Literally all we could say is, "Ya know, that Tommy fella seems like a real fine guy and seems to really play hard and fire those guys up," because it would be an "attack" to also point out that his mechanics and decision-making are questionable at times.

I mean, what is this, a sitcom in the 1950s?

I think it's safe to stay that there's a difference between "he played a terrible game" and "he's stupid and retarded and anyone who disagrees is a jacka$$."

That and the fact that people seem to think that if they stepped on the field, they'd not throw 10 picks.

My whole issue with the scapegoating of Tommy is that he's not the only one to throw picks (and a lot of them) as a first time QB in this offense under Riley and Langs.

Yet, what did the OC do to "protect" his QB and grind out wins? Not much. Because interceptions be damned, the coverage called for X, so by golly, X is getting called, even if it's a high risk play for the team on the field.

We saw the same thing when Fyfe was thrown to the wolves against an awful Purdue defense when Nebraska could have easily ground out a win. That's when I lost faith and realized that the offense just isn't run well, no matter who the QB.

And before people start firing away at the straw man that some of us hate the forward pass, just understand that I like the forward pass, but there are ways to make things easier on a QB (see what Houston or Baylor or Oregon or many others do every week).

It's not just about volume. It's about the types of reads and throws that are asked for in a system.

 

[Enhance]

Part of it is kids now are softer than ever

Kids are softer, but so is society as a whole. Criticism is taboo now. Just look at HuskerMax. It's a mortal sin to call out a player on that board.

It's always been and always will be taboo to call out ANYONE personally on a bulletin board. This is a place for discussion...not personal attacks. If you think it's unfair you might want to stop visiting to avoid being frustrated each time.

I can't tell if you're serious or not. By that standard, we'd never be able to lament a QB throwing four picks in a game because it would constitute a "personal attack."
Literally all we could say is, "Ya know, that Tommy fella seems like a real fine guy and seems to really play hard and fire those guys up," because it would be an "attack" to also point out that his mechanics and decision-making are questionable at times.

I mean, what is this, a sitcom in the 1950s?

I think it's safe to stay that there's a difference between "he played a terrible game" and "he's stupid and retarded and anyone who disagrees is a jacka$$."

That and the fact that people seem to think that if they stepped on the field, they'd not throw 10 picks.

My whole issue with the scapegoating of Tommy is that he's not the only one to throw picks (and a lot of them) as a first time QB in this offense under Riley and Langs.

Yet, what did the OC do to "protect" his QB and grind out wins? Not much. Because interceptions be damned, the coverage called for X, so by golly, X is getting called, even if it's a high risk play for the team on the field.

We saw the same thing when Fyfe was thrown to the wolves against an awful Purdue defense when Nebraska could have easily ground out a win. That's when I lost faith and realized that the offense just isn't run well, no matter who the QB.

And before people start firing away at the straw man that some of us hate the forward pass, just understand that I like the forward pass, but there are ways to make things easier on a QB (see what Houston or Baylor or Oregon or many others do every week).

It's not just about volume. It's about the types of reads and throws that are asked for in a system.

I think a lot of people will agree the coaches failed the players in some regards this season, including myself. I also leave the players culpable, particularly Armstrong, as any junior quarterback with as much experience as him should know better than to make some of the throws he made this year.

Off-topic, that's also why I don't think I'm going to be able to take much away from this bowl game win or lose, particularly where Armstrong is concerned. Armstrong has had really good one-game performances. Whoever the starter is next year, I want to see consistency week-to-week or the player at least putting together a good stretch of games over several weeks.

 

[junior4949]

Sounds like what it comes down to, is we haven't had the staff or S/C coaches to build or train these kids, in a long time. Which is it ?

GBR!!!

I don't know, but Clownahan made a living as an OL coach for quite a while. What the OL did and became under his watch was probably the biggest disappointment of his tenure here. Another huge letdown was what we did with Bake Steinkuhler. He was a four star recruit as an OL, so of course we make him a DL.

 

[BigRedBuster]

Sounds like what it comes down to, is we haven't had the staff or S/C coaches to build or train these kids, in a long time. Which is it ?

GBR!!!

I personally have struggled with understanding this myself. I really don't think a lacking S&C department has been the team's greatest downfall over the last 10-15 years. A lot of people locally and around the country had worked with the previous staff's S&C guy - Dobson - and had really good things to say about him.

I think some of the bigger factors at play have been in the recruiting and coaching realms. I have a lot of thoughts on these, but to summarize the first part, I think recent coaches have either missed out on bringing in recruits that could've made an impact or the recruits they did bring in never reached the potential fans and even coaches had for them. I don't like to call out individual players, but Andrew Rodriguez is a guy I look at here. A highly touted four star from Nebraska that appears, at best, to have made Honorable Mention All Big Ten team. And in terms of players the university has missed out on, Andrus Peat is a big name who is now in the NFL.

From a coaching perspective, I don't know if our technique/fundamentals ever really reached a consistent level either. I also don't think Nebraska has had a solid identity in years. It seemed like a lot of guys just weren't developing on the line or making the improvement you'd like to see. In my opinion, when your best offensive lineman in recent history is a former walk-on and nobody else even really holds his jock strap, that's a failure from the top down. The line needs to be better. That's not meant to disrespect Spencer Long, either. But, the Huskers really aren't in a position to rely on hoping against hope that their walk-ons will turn into potential All-Americans.

I agree with much of what you say. I just wanted to reply in regard to the S&C is that it wasn't know-how that caused S&C to slip under Dobson imo, it was accountability. That starts with the HC. If the HC doesn't discipline or kick guys off the team that aren't busting their butt in S&C workouts then it takes the authority away from the S&C coach. Guys know they can coast without repercussions.

I believe that's why you saw a guy like Jake Cotton go from an agile, athletic OL early in his career to the less agile athlete he became by his senior year.

And why Kenny Bell put on 15 lbs of muscle in 2 months before the combine, instead of doing it in his 5 years here.

I wish people would stop posting pictures of fat O linemen and using that as a claim that they were out of shape and weak. O linemen are fat. Google "Alabama Offensive line" or "Wisconsin Offensive Line" or what ever line you think is awesome and you will find pictures of O linemen with a belly.

I would post the pictures but I'm mobile and don't have the time.

 

[Stumpy1]

Sounds like what it comes down to, is we haven't had the staff or S/C coaches to build or train these kids, in a long time. Which is it ?

GBR!!!

I don't know, but Clownahan made a living as an OL coach for quite a while. What the OL did and became under his watch was probably the biggest disappointment of his tenure here. Another huge letdown was what we did with Bake Steinkuhler. He was a four star recruit as an OL, so of course we make him a DL.

Didn't Baker asked to be a DL? Thought I read somewhere that he didn't want to follow in his dad's footsteps and always be compared to him as an OL.

 

[Stumpy1]

Sounds like what it comes down to, is we haven't had the staff or S/C coaches to build or train these kids, in a long time. Which is it ?

GBR!!!

I personally have struggled with understanding this myself. I really don't think a lacking S&C department has been the team's greatest downfall over the last 10-15 years. A lot of people locally and around the country had worked with the previous staff's S&C guy - Dobson - and had really good things to say about him.

I think some of the bigger factors at play have been in the recruiting and coaching realms. I have a lot of thoughts on these, but to summarize the first part, I think recent coaches have either missed out on bringing in recruits that could've made an impact or the recruits they did bring in never reached the potential fans and even coaches had for them. I don't like to call out individual players, but Andrew Rodriguez is a guy I look at here. A highly touted four star from Nebraska that appears, at best, to have made Honorable Mention All Big Ten team. And in terms of players the university has missed out on, Andrus Peat is a big name who is now in the NFL.

From a coaching perspective, I don't know if our technique/fundamentals ever really reached a consistent level either. I also don't think Nebraska has had a solid identity in years. It seemed like a lot of guys just weren't developing on the line or making the improvement you'd like to see. In my opinion, when your best offensive lineman in recent history is a former walk-on and nobody else even really holds his jock strap, that's a failure from the top down. The line needs to be better. That's not meant to disrespect Spencer Long, either. But, the Huskers really aren't in a position to rely on hoping against hope that their walk-ons will turn into potential All-Americans.

I agree with much of what you say. I just wanted to reply in regard to the S&C is that it wasn't know-how that caused S&C to slip under Dobson imo, it was accountability. That starts with the HC. If the HC doesn't discipline or kick guys off the team that aren't busting their butt in S&C workouts then it takes the authority away from the S&C coach. Guys know they can coast without repercussions.

I believe that's why you saw a guy like Jake Cotton go from an agile, athletic OL early in his career to the less agile athlete he became by his senior year.

And why Kenny Bell put on 15 lbs of muscle in 2 months before the combine, instead of doing it in his 5 years here.

I wish people would stop posting pictures of fat O linemen and using that as a claim that they were out of shape and weak. O linemen are fat. Google "Alabama Offensive line" or "Wisconsin Offensive Line" or what ever line you think is awesome and you will find pictures of O linemen with a belly.

I would post the pictures but I'm mobile and don't have the time.

The difference between Bama and Wisconsin's OL and ours is/was strength. Our guys are/were just weak, plain and simple. I think this will change with Philipp and crew as they went back to more of a strength building routine. They are putting more focus on Olympic lifts for the players to build great strengthand explosiveness. A lot of that can be attributed to Tim Rabas, who at one time was a competitive lifter.

 

[Enhance]

Sounds like what it comes down to, is we haven't had the staff or S/C coaches to build or train these kids, in a long time. Which is it ?

GBR!!!

I personally have struggled with understanding this myself. I really don't think a lacking S&C department has been the team's greatest downfall over the last 10-15 years. A lot of people locally and around the country had worked with the previous staff's S&C guy - Dobson - and had really good things to say about him.

I think some of the bigger factors at play have been in the recruiting and coaching realms. I have a lot of thoughts on these, but to summarize the first part, I think recent coaches have either missed out on bringing in recruits that could've made an impact or the recruits they did bring in never reached the potential fans and even coaches had for them. I don't like to call out individual players, but Andrew Rodriguez is a guy I look at here. A highly touted four star from Nebraska that appears, at best, to have made Honorable Mention All Big Ten team. And in terms of players the university has missed out on, Andrus Peat is a big name who is now in the NFL.

From a coaching perspective, I don't know if our technique/fundamentals ever really reached a consistent level either. I also don't think Nebraska has had a solid identity in years. It seemed like a lot of guys just weren't developing on the line or making the improvement you'd like to see. In my opinion, when your best offensive lineman in recent history is a former walk-on and nobody else even really holds his jock strap, that's a failure from the top down. The line needs to be better. That's not meant to disrespect Spencer Long, either. But, the Huskers really aren't in a position to rely on hoping against hope that their walk-ons will turn into potential All-Americans.

I agree with much of what you say. I just wanted to reply in regard to the S&C is that it wasn't know-how that caused S&C to slip under Dobson imo, it was accountability. That starts with the HC. If the HC doesn't discipline or kick guys off the team that aren't busting their butt in S&C workouts then it takes the authority away from the S&C coach. Guys know they can coast without repercussions.

I believe that's why you saw a guy like Jake Cotton go from an agile, athletic OL early in his career to the less agile athlete he became by his senior year.

And why Kenny Bell put on 15 lbs of muscle in 2 months before the combine, instead of doing it in his 5 years here.

I wish people would stop posting pictures of fat O linemen and using that as a claim that they were out of shape and weak. O linemen are fat. Google "Alabama Offensive line" or "Wisconsin Offensive Line" or what ever line you think is awesome and you will find pictures of O linemen with a belly.

I would post the pictures but I'm mobile and don't have the time.

The difference between Bama and Wisconsin's OL and ours is/was strength. Our guys are/were just weak, plain and simple. I think this will change with Philipp and crew as they went back to more of a strength building routine. They are putting more focus on Olympic lifts for the players to build great strengthand explosiveness. A lot of that can be attributed to Tim Rabas, who at one time was a competitive lifter.

Has this been discussed in an article either recently or in the off-season? And is this new lifting regimen really going to be the difference between championship lines and what Nebraska has now?

Saying 'strength is the difference' is essentially saying strength will bring Nebraska back to the forefront of college football's best offensive lines. I don't buy it and I don't think that's the case. The difference between Nebraska, Alabama and some of the old Wisconsin lines isn't just strength. It's scheme, speed and most importantly fundamental ability. Alabama's line is just good. They play to the whistle, have really good technique and fundamentals, position themselves well and are confident in their abilities. Yeah, they're strong. But, strength doesn't get you very far in division one football. Everybody is strong, especially in the SEC.

I've listened to Vrzal critique our lines a lot over the last several years and I don't recall him ever saying strength was what was holding Nebraska back. He generally ripped into technique and fundamentals. Hell, some of the best NFL linemen didn't have great combine bench numbers or any of that.

I'm not discrediting that strength may be a concern or something to improve. Strength is a critical component. But, it's not Nebraska's biggest problem in my opinion. Spencer Long has not been the strongest linemen at Nebraska in the last several years but he was arguably the best.

 

[BigRedBuster]

Sounds like what it comes down to, is we haven't had the staff or S/C coaches to build or train these kids, in a long time. Which is it ?

GBR!!!

I personally have struggled with understanding this myself. I really don't think a lacking S&C department has been the team's greatest downfall over the last 10-15 years. A lot of people locally and around the country had worked with the previous staff's S&C guy - Dobson - and had really good things to say about him.

I think some of the bigger factors at play have been in the recruiting and coaching realms. I have a lot of thoughts on these, but to summarize the first part, I think recent coaches have either missed out on bringing in recruits that could've made an impact or the recruits they did bring in never reached the potential fans and even coaches had for them. I don't like to call out individual players, but Andrew Rodriguez is a guy I look at here. A highly touted four star from Nebraska that appears, at best, to have made Honorable Mention All Big Ten team. And in terms of players the university has missed out on, Andrus Peat is a big name who is now in the NFL.

From a coaching perspective, I don't know if our technique/fundamentals ever really reached a consistent level either. I also don't think Nebraska has had a solid identity in years. It seemed like a lot of guys just weren't developing on the line or making the improvement you'd like to see. In my opinion, when your best offensive lineman in recent history is a former walk-on and nobody else even really holds his jock strap, that's a failure from the top down. The line needs to be better. That's not meant to disrespect Spencer Long, either. But, the Huskers really aren't in a position to rely on hoping against hope that their walk-ons will turn into potential All-Americans.

I agree with much of what you say. I just wanted to reply in regard to the S&C is that it wasn't know-how that caused S&C to slip under Dobson imo, it was accountability. That starts with the HC. If the HC doesn't discipline or kick guys off the team that aren't busting their butt in S&C workouts then it takes the authority away from the S&C coach. Guys know they can coast without repercussions.

I believe that's why you saw a guy like Jake Cotton go from an agile, athletic OL early in his career to the less agile athlete he became by his senior year.

And why Kenny Bell put on 15 lbs of muscle in 2 months before the combine, instead of doing it in his 5 years here.

I wish people would stop posting pictures of fat O linemen and using that as a claim that they were out of shape and weak. O linemen are fat. Google "Alabama Offensive line" or "Wisconsin Offensive Line" or what ever line you think is awesome and you will find pictures of O linemen with a belly.

I would post the pictures but I'm mobile and don't have the time.

The difference between Bama and Wisconsin's OL and ours is/was strength. Our guys are/were just weak, plain and simple. I think this will change with Philipp and crew as they went back to more of a strength building routine. They are putting more focus on Olympic lifts for the players to build great strengthand explosiveness. A lot of that can be attributed to Tim Rabas, who at one time was a competitive lifter.

That's fine. But, some people post pictures of them with bellies and claim...see...they are just fat. O linemen are fat.

 

[alwayshusking]

Sounds like what it comes down to, is we haven't had the staff or S/C coaches to build or train these kids, in a long time. Which is it ?

GBR!!!

I personally have struggled with understanding this myself. I really don't think a lacking S&C department has been the team's greatest downfall over the last 10-15 years. A lot of people locally and around the country had worked with the previous staff's S&C guy - Dobson - and had really good things to say about him.

I think some of the bigger factors at play have been in the recruiting and coaching realms. I have a lot of thoughts on these, but to summarize the first part, I think recent coaches have either missed out on bringing in recruits that could've made an impact or the recruits they did bring in never reached the potential fans and even coaches had for them. I don't like to call out individual players, but Andrew Rodriguez is a guy I look at here. A highly touted four star from Nebraska that appears, at best, to have made Honorable Mention All Big Ten team. And in terms of players the university has missed out on, Andrus Peat is a big name who is now in the NFL.

From a coaching perspective, I don't know if our technique/fundamentals ever really reached a consistent level either. I also don't think Nebraska has had a solid identity in years. It seemed like a lot of guys just weren't developing on the line or making the improvement you'd like to see. In my opinion, when your best offensive lineman in recent history is a former walk-on and nobody else even really holds his jock strap, that's a failure from the top down. The line needs to be better. That's not meant to disrespect Spencer Long, either. But, the Huskers really aren't in a position to rely on hoping against hope that their walk-ons will turn into potential All-Americans.

I agree with much of what you say. I just wanted to reply in regard to the S&C is that it wasn't know-how that caused S&C to slip under Dobson imo, it was accountability. That starts with the HC. If the HC doesn't discipline or kick guys off the team that aren't busting their butt in S&C workouts then it takes the authority away from the S&C coach. Guys know they can coast without repercussions.

I believe that's why you saw a guy like Jake Cotton go from an agile, athletic OL early in his career to the less agile athlete he became by his senior year.

And why Kenny Bell put on 15 lbs of muscle in 2 months before the combine, instead of doing it in his 5 years here.

I wish people would stop posting pictures of fat O linemen and using that as a claim that they were out of shape and weak. O linemen are fat. Google "Alabama Offensive line" or "Wisconsin Offensive Line" or what ever line you think is awesome and you will find pictures of O linemen with a belly.

I would post the pictures but I'm mobile and don't have the time.

It's not that he was fat, it's that he used to be an agile OL who carried weight well as a freshman and sophomore. He looked to be a good player in the upcoming years. He turned into a fat player as an upperclassmen and his athleticism decreased.

Some guys are bad body guys naturally, Jake wasn't, he became it.

 

[cm husker]

Sounds like what it comes down to, is we haven't had the staff or S/C coaches to build or train these kids, in a long time. Which is it ?

GBR!!!

I personally have struggled with understanding this myself. I really don't think a lacking S&C department has been the team's greatest downfall over the last 10-15 years. A lot of people locally and around the country had worked with the previous staff's S&C guy - Dobson - and had really good things to say about him.
I think some of the bigger factors at play have been in the recruiting and coaching realms. I have a lot of thoughts on these, but to summarize the first part, I think recent coaches have either missed out on bringing in recruits that could've made an impact or the recruits they did bring in never reached the potential fans and even coaches had for them. I don't like to call out individual players, but Andrew Rodriguez is a guy I look at here. A highly touted four star from Nebraska that appears, at best, to have made Honorable Mention All Big Ten team. And in terms of players the university has missed out on, Andrus Peat is a big name who is now in the NFL.

From a coaching perspective, I don't know if our technique/fundamentals ever really reached a consistent level either. I also don't think Nebraska has had a solid identity in years. It seemed like a lot of guys just weren't developing on the line or making the improvement you'd like to see. In my opinion, when your best offensive lineman in recent history is a former walk-on and nobody else even really holds his jock strap, that's a failure from the top down. The line needs to be better. That's not meant to disrespect Spencer Long, either. But, the Huskers really aren't in a position to rely on hoping against hope that their walk-ons will turn into potential All-Americans.

I agree with much of what you say. I just wanted to reply in regard to the S&C is that it wasn't know-how that caused S&C to slip under Dobson imo, it was accountability. That starts with the HC. If the HC doesn't discipline or kick guys off the team that aren't busting their butt in S&C workouts then it takes the authority away from the S&C coach. Guys know they can coast without repercussions.

I believe that's why you saw a guy like Jake Cotton go from an agile, athletic OL early in his career to the less agile athlete he became by his senior year.

And why Kenny Bell put on 15 lbs of muscle in 2 months before the combine, instead of doing it in his 5 years here.

I wish people would stop posting pictures of fat O linemen and using that as a claim that they were out of shape and weak. O linemen are fat. Google "Alabama Offensive line" or "Wisconsin Offensive Line" or what ever line you think is awesome and you will find pictures of O linemen with a belly.
I would post the pictures but I'm mobile and don't have the time.

The difference between Bama and Wisconsin's OL and ours is/was strength. Our guys are/were just weak, plain and simple. I think this will change with Philipp and crew as they went back to more of a strength building routine. They are putting more focus on Olympic lifts for the players to build great strengthand explosiveness. A lot of that can be attributed to Tim Rabas, who at one time was a competitive lifter.

Post whatever pics you want, but that one in this thread doesn't show a sloppy OL.

Didn't cotton play some professional ball in Canada?

 

[Elf]

Sounds like what it comes down to, is we haven't had the staff or S/C coaches to build or train these kids, in a long time. Which is it ?

GBR!!!

I don't know, but Clownahan made a living as an OL coach for quite a while. What the OL did and became under his watch was probably the biggest disappointment of his tenure here. Another huge letdown was what we did with Bake Steinkuhler. He was a four star recruit as an OL, so of course we make him a DL.

Callahan wasn't the offensive line coach here. And last I checked he was still making a living in the NFL as an oline coach.

For the life of me I can't recall who his oline coach was.

 

[junior4949]

Just like Bo wasn't the DC here? Are you interested in any ocean front property here in southwest Nebraska?