How would things have gone if we had retained Solich as coach?

[cm husker]

I don't know the ins and outs of Solich's tenure, but looking back at the numbers it's hard to see how people have so much certainty that he would have failed.

His recruiting classes weren't ranked nearly as awfully as some make it out to sound. His class rankings, not including the year he got fired, were 10, 25, 12, 14, and 28. For comparison, Bo had one class in the top 20. He definitely struggled when it came to quarterbacks and other positions, but then again, 2 seasons after Eric Crouch does not a reliable data set make.

As far as his ability to coach, of course he had the added benefit of Osborne's machine and players for a while. But you still don't win a conference championship, go 42-9, and finish in the top 10 3 times out of 4 years on luck or accident. How many Osborne players were left on the 2001 squad that started the season 11-0? Of course the season had an ugly ending, but it was still the best result we've had since.

People act like it was inevitable that Solich was going to drop down a cliff if he hadn't gotten fired in 2003. Maybe that's true. But 4 years of really good football following the best coach ever, and two underwhelming but not abysmal years after that, doesn't seem to be much evidence to make any confident conclusions from, imo

Watch games from 97 or earlier on youtube and look at the quality of athletes. Then watch a game from 2003 and check the quality of athletes again. There is a significant dropoff.

What if you watch games from '92 or earlier though?

People widely acknowledge that the mid 90s were special. Many of those elite guys were local. That's a rare aligning of the stars.

Not saying Frank was as good as Tom, but purely from a "how do their starts compare" perspective, he was very close. So, I make the point again, are we going to collectively decide whether it's going to be a "top 5 coach or bust" mentality or not?

That'd be a true departure from what "Nebraska" and the whole "not the victory..." was all about. But maybe that's where we are now.

 

[Landlord]

I don't know the ins and outs of Solich's tenure, but looking back at the numbers it's hard to see how people have so much certainty that he would have failed.

His recruiting classes weren't ranked nearly as awfully as some make it out to sound. His class rankings, not including the year he got fired, were 10, 25, 12, 14, and 28. For comparison, Bo had one class in the top 20. He definitely struggled when it came to quarterbacks and other positions, but then again, 2 seasons after Eric Crouch does not a reliable data set make.

As far as his ability to coach, of course he had the added benefit of Osborne's machine and players for a while. But you still don't win a conference championship, go 42-9, and finish in the top 10 3 times out of 4 years on luck or accident. How many Osborne players were left on the 2001 squad that started the season 11-0? Of course the season had an ugly ending, but it was still the best result we've had since.

People act like it was inevitable that Solich was going to drop down a cliff if he hadn't gotten fired in 2003. Maybe that's true. But 4 years of really good football following the best coach ever, and two underwhelming but not abysmal years after that, doesn't seem to be much evidence to make any confident conclusions from, imo

Watch games from 97 or earlier on youtube and look at the quality of athletes. Then watch a game from 2003 and check the quality of athletes again. There is a significant dropoff.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but first, 97 was the culmination of the most dominant era of any program in the history of college football, and second, the question is whether or not that was a forever destined downward spiral, or if there was a chance that it would have been a momentary dip only to be followed by improvement back to our standards. Take Les Miles at LSU - followed a wildly successful coach, had 3 REALLY good seasons to start with Saban's players, then had an 8-5 campaign and a 9-4 campaign. Not exactly the same, but definitely has at least a semblance of similarity, doesn't it? That drop-off could have continued, or it could not have, and in Miles' case, he followed it up with two REALLY good seasons again, and then a few 10 win ones, and then a few not as good ones.

All I'm positing is that it doesn't seem to be a foregone conclusion that Solich couldn't have gotten back up, when others seem to take his last two years and decide that those in particular were all he was capable of.

 

[cm husker]

Besides les miles, several actual HOF coaches had "poor" seasons after championships, including bear Bryant and paterno.

 

[Stumpy1]

Frank and Carl Pelini are of the same mold...That is why neither are employed with NU and never will be again.

 

[AFhusker]

I don't know the ins and outs of Solich's tenure, but looking back at the numbers it's hard to see how people have so much certainty that he would have failed.

His recruiting classes weren't ranked nearly as awfully as some make it out to sound. His class rankings, not including the year he got fired, were 10, 25, 12, 14, and 28. For comparison, Bo had one class in the top 20. He definitely struggled when it came to quarterbacks and other positions, but then again, 2 seasons after Eric Crouch does not a reliable data set make.

As far as his ability to coach, of course he had the added benefit of Osborne's machine and players for a while. But you still don't win a conference championship, go 42-9, and finish in the top 10 3 times out of 4 years on luck or accident. How many Osborne players were left on the 2001 squad that started the season 11-0? Of course the season had an ugly ending, but it was still the best result we've had since.

People act like it was inevitable that Solich was going to drop down a cliff if he hadn't gotten fired in 2003. Maybe that's true. But 4 years of really good football following the best coach ever, and two underwhelming but not abysmal years after that, doesn't seem to be much evidence to make any confident conclusions from, imo

Watch games from 97 or earlier on youtube and look at the quality of athletes. Then watch a game from 2003 and check the quality of athletes again. There is a significant dropoff.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but first, 97 was the culmination of the most dominant era of any program in the history of college football, and second, the question is whether or not that was a forever destined downward spiral, or if there was a chance that it would have been a momentary dip only to be followed by improvement back to our standards. Take Les Miles at LSU - followed a wildly successful coach, had 3 REALLY good seasons to start with Saban's players, then had an 8-5 campaign and a 9-4 campaign. Not exactly the same, but definitely has at least a semblance of similarity, doesn't it? That drop-off could have continued, or it could not have, and in Miles' case, he followed it up with two REALLY good seasons again, and then a few 10 win ones, and then a few not as good ones.

All I'm positing is that it doesn't seem to be a foregone conclusion that Solich couldn't have gotten back up, when others seem to take his last two years and decide that those in particular were all he was capable of.

The difference is that Miles knew the importance of recruiting and is good at it. It can be argued that he just continued the Saban way of SEC $$$$ recruiting, but either way he still got the athletes there. The same can't be said for Frank. Also Elf's point still stands, the players in 2003 didn't look anything like any NU team during the TO era. Not just the last 5 as a part of the accountability issues that Frank had, he allowed the program to become lazy.

 

[AFhusker]

I don't know the ins and outs of Solich's tenure, but looking back at the numbers it's hard to see how people have so much certainty that he would have failed.

His recruiting classes weren't ranked nearly as awfully as some make it out to sound. His class rankings, not including the year he got fired, were 10, 25, 12, 14, and 28. For comparison, Bo had one class in the top 20. He definitely struggled when it came to quarterbacks and other positions, but then again, 2 seasons after Eric Crouch does not a reliable data set make.

As far as his ability to coach, of course he had the added benefit of Osborne's machine and players for a while. But you still don't win a conference championship, go 42-9, and finish in the top 10 3 times out of 4 years on luck or accident. How many Osborne players were left on the 2001 squad that started the season 11-0? Of course the season had an ugly ending, but it was still the best result we've had since.

People act like it was inevitable that Solich was going to drop down a cliff if he hadn't gotten fired in 2003. Maybe that's true. But 4 years of really good football following the best coach ever, and two underwhelming but not abysmal years after that, doesn't seem to be much evidence to make any confident conclusions from, imo

Watch games from 97 or earlier on youtube and look at the quality of athletes. Then watch a game from 2003 and check the quality of athletes again. There is a significant dropoff.

What if you watch games from '92 or earlier though?

People widely acknowledge that the mid 90s were special. Many of those elite guys were local. That's a rare aligning of the stars.

Not saying Frank was as good as Tom, but purely from a "how do their starts compare" perspective, he was very close. So, I make the point again, are we going to collectively decide whether it's going to be a "top 5 coach or bust" mentality or not?

That'd be a true departure from what "Nebraska" and the whole "not the victory..." was all about. But maybe that's where we are now.

Which of the elite guys were local? I will agree if your definition of local is the continental United States, but that is another non truth that you are trying to sell as a fact. The state of Nebraska has never produced enough elite talent to produce a 60-3 five year run. You know what you see with local talent? You get a MAC level team.

 

[AFhusker]

Frank and Carl Pelini are of the same mold...That is why neither are employed with NU and never will be again.

+1 for speaking the truth.

 

[cm husker]

I don't know the ins and outs of Solich's tenure, but looking back at the numbers it's hard to see how people have so much certainty that he would have failed.

His recruiting classes weren't ranked nearly as awfully as some make it out to sound. His class rankings, not including the year he got fired, were 10, 25, 12, 14, and 28. For comparison, Bo had one class in the top 20. He definitely struggled when it came to quarterbacks and other positions, but then again, 2 seasons after Eric Crouch does not a reliable data set make.

As far as his ability to coach, of course he had the added benefit of Osborne's machine and players for a while. But you still don't win a conference championship, go 42-9, and finish in the top 10 3 times out of 4 years on luck or accident. How many Osborne players were left on the 2001 squad that started the season 11-0? Of course the season had an ugly ending, but it was still the best result we've had since.

People act like it was inevitable that Solich was going to drop down a cliff if he hadn't gotten fired in 2003. Maybe that's true. But 4 years of really good football following the best coach ever, and two underwhelming but not abysmal years after that, doesn't seem to be much evidence to make any confident conclusions from, imo

Watch games from 97 or earlier on youtube and look at the quality of athletes. Then watch a game from 2003 and check the quality of athletes again. There is a significant dropoff.

What if you watch games from '92 or earlier though?
People widely acknowledge that the mid 90s were special. Many of those elite guys were local. That's a rare aligning of the stars.

Not saying Frank was as good as Tom, but purely from a "how do their starts compare" perspective, he was very close. So, I make the point again, are we going to collectively decide whether it's going to be a "top 5 coach or bust" mentality or not?

That'd be a true departure from what "Nebraska" and the whole "not the victory..." was all about. But maybe that's where we are now.

Which of the elite guys were local? I will agree if your definition of local is the continental United States, but that is another non truth that you are trying to sell as a fact. The state of Nebraska has never produced enough elite talent to produce a 60-3 five year run. You know what you see with local talent? You get a MAC level team.

did you see my other posts to you? They are delayed due to mod approval requirements.

Just a FYI, every skill player on the '97 championship team was from Nebraska.

 

[Landlord]

Just a FYI, every skill player on the '97 championship team was from Nebraska.

Except for Corell Buckhalter, Dan Alexander, Frankie London, Bobby Newcombe, Kenny Cheatham, Sheldon Jackson, Shevin Wiggins, Mike Brown, Ralph Brown, Joe Walker, etc.

 

[cm husker]

Just a FYI, every skill player on the '97 championship team was from Nebraska.

Except for Corell Buckhalter, Dan Alexander, Frankie London, Bobby Newcombe, Kenny Cheatham, Sheldon Jackson, Shevin Wiggins, Mike Brown, Ralph Brown, Joe Walker, etc.

Guess I should have clarified that I meant offensive starters. It was a proud stat at one point. Didn't realize that level of detail was required in every post, especially when people seem to read out qualifying language like "many" so they can attack someone for something that was never said.

 

[commando]

Just a FYI, every skill player on the '97 championship team was from Nebraska.

Except for Corell Buckhalter, Dan Alexander, Frankie London, Bobby Newcombe, Kenny Cheatham, Sheldon Jackson, Shevin Wiggins, Mike Brown, Ralph Brown, Joe Walker, etc.

i think he meant every starting offensive skill player was from nebraska

 

[Landlord]

Just a FYI, every skill player on the '97 championship team was from Nebraska.

Except for Corell Buckhalter, Dan Alexander, Frankie London, Bobby Newcombe, Kenny Cheatham, Sheldon Jackson, Shevin Wiggins, Mike Brown, Ralph Brown, Joe Walker, etc.

i think he meant every starting offensive skill player was from nebraska

he's plenty good at moving his own goalposts without other people helping him

 

[ADS]

Just a FYI, every skill player on the '97 championship team was from Nebraska.

Except for Corell Buckhalter, Dan Alexander, Frankie London, Bobby Newcombe, Kenny Cheatham, Sheldon Jackson, Shevin Wiggins, Mike Brown, Ralph Brown, Joe Walker, etc.

i think he meant every starting offensive skill player was from nebraska

Shevin Wiggins and Sheldon Jackson both started.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

What would have happened if Frank Solich had been retained as coach?

I have no idea.

Could have gone any number of ways.

Let's just be honest enough to admit that, and move on.

 

[grandpasknee]

Don't know, don't care.