Question about Coach Riley

[Hayseed]

I thought there was a politics and religion board somewhere around here??

How good of a guy Mike Riley is has nothing to do with politics or religion.

You must not have read the OP.

 

[Xmas32]

It's obvious Riley lives by a code of decency, humility, respect and care for others. I couldn't care less if he got that way from attending church or from life experience. And I get a little tired of religious people pretending they possess some goodness unavailable to other people- that's nothing but pride and arrogance.

It's available to everyone. The arrogant are the ones that don't feels like they need anything other than themselves.

So having total self belief in oneself is a bad thing?

 

[Xmas32]

I mean in a football coach, I personally don't think faith really matters. What matters is working towards a successful football program.

Interesting. So being responsible for shaping/leading young men in athletics and college is irrelevant as long as the football program is successful? Do you believe that the leadership in the football program should have certain moral convictions having the responsibility they have?

One does not have to be religious or believe in a higher being to show leadership, moral convictions, responsibility and lead men. One can have "faith in their abilities" and be successful without believing in god.

Acting morally does not exist for a person who does not believe in a higher power; rather these people are following and imitating a behavior that has become acceptable in a society.

Lol wut?

 

[zoogs]

Let's keep this thread a little more on topic about Coach Riley and so forth; a discussion about whether nonreligious people are sadly lacking may continue in the Politics & Religion forum

 

[Jonathan Paul]

It's obvious Riley lives by a code of decency, humility, respect and care for others. I couldn't care less if he got that way from attending church or from life experience. And I get a little tired of religious people pretending they possess some goodness unavailable to other people- that's nothing but pride and arrogance.

I think a bigger problem is trying to justify/rationalize why someone will behave goodly without any real reason other than societal acceptance. That's what scares me. Fear of law? Fear of opinion? Or simply not really ever taking a moment to even think about it. sh#t, some people live and breathe to help people - they even die without ever considering why. Does that matter?

 

[Kernal]

It's obvious Riley lives by a code of decency, humility, respect and care for others. I couldn't care less if he got that way from attending church or from life experience. And I get a little tired of religious people pretending they possess some goodness unavailable to other people- that's nothing but pride and arrogance.

It's available to everyone. The arrogant are the ones that don't feels like they need anything other than themselves.

Everybody believes in something; some people just have a hard time accepting that that something may not be the same thing as they believe. I judge a man's faith by the fruit it produces, not his sales pitch. It's usually pretty obvious what is what. And to me, that is the case with Riley. It is obvious to me he is a man of faith (in something).

 

[Jonathan Paul]

I mean in a football coach, I personally don't think faith really matters. What matters is working towards a successful football program.

Interesting. So being responsible for shaping/leading young men in athletics and college is irrelevant as long as the football program is successful? Do you believe that the leadership in the football program should have certain moral convictions having the responsibility they have?

One does not have to be religious or believe in a higher being to show leadership, moral convictions, responsibility and lead men. One can have "faith in their abilities" and be successful without believing in god.

Acting morally does not exist for a person who does not believe in a higher power; rather these people are following and imitating a behavior that has become acceptable in a society.

Lol wut?

What is the confusion? The explanation is that culture is learned. When a group of people are doing something and another person sees this - they will begin to adapt this behavior and make it their own. Whether Mike Riley is imitating these good behaviors from the people he spent time with - his parents, etc - it doesn't matter. The point is that he is displaying some sort of accepted behavior. If he is displaying these behaviors because of his faith then it doesn't matter what he sees other people doing - it is what he knows he should be doing because this is what his higher power says is right (IE. Objective morality).

 

[Jonathan Paul]

I mean in a football coach, I personally don't think faith really matters. What matters is working towards a successful football program.

Interesting. So being responsible for shaping/leading young men in athletics and college is irrelevant as long as the football program is successful? Do you believe that the leadership in the football program should have certain moral convictions having the responsibility they have?

One does not have to be religious or believe in a higher being to show leadership, moral convictions, responsibility and lead men. One can have "faith in their abilities" and be successful without believing in god.

Acting morally does not exist for a person who does not believe in a higher power; rather these people are following and imitating a behavior that has become acceptable in a society.

Lol wut?

What is the confusion? The explanation is that culture is learned. When a group of people are doing something and another person sees this - they will begin to adapt this behavior and make it their own. Whether Mike Riley is imitating these good behaviors from the people he spent time with - his parents, etc - it doesn't matter. The point is that he is displaying some sort of accepted behavior. If he is displaying these behaviors because of his faith then it doesn't matter what he sees other people doing - it is what he knows he should be doing because this is what his higher power says is right (IE. Objective morality).

You can think of the two like this:

Goodness outside of faith as the status quo

Goodness in the realm of higher power as the objective truth.

 

[Kernal]

It's obvious Riley lives by a code of decency, humility, respect and care for others. I couldn't care less if he got that way from attending church or from life experience. And I get a little tired of religious people pretending they possess some goodness unavailable to other people- that's nothing but pride and arrogance.

I think a bigger problem is trying to justify/rationalize why someone will behave goodly without any real reason other than societal acceptance. That's what scares me. Fear of law? Fear of opinion? Or simply not really ever taking a moment to even think about it. sh#t, some people live and breathe to help people - they even die without ever considering why. Does that matter?

Why does it need be fear of anything? People can be kind because they have empathy. They can be kind because they feel gratitude. They can be kind because they enjoy being kind. Why do you think people only behave well out of fear? It's entirely possible to take a moment to think about it and come to the conclusion the god of religions is make-believe. That doesn't preclude a person from believing in an order to the universe, or a reason for being, or the virtue of decency or faith in those same things.

 

[Jonathan Paul]

It's obvious Riley lives by a code of decency, humility, respect and care for others. I couldn't care less if he got that way from attending church or from life experience. And I get a little tired of religious people pretending they possess some goodness unavailable to other people- that's nothing but pride and arrogance.

I think a bigger problem is trying to justify/rationalize why someone will behave goodly without any real reason other than societal acceptance. That's what scares me. Fear of law? Fear of opinion? Or simply not really ever taking a moment to even think about it. sh#t, some people live and breathe to help people - they even die without ever considering why. Does that matter?

Why does it need be fear of anything? People can be kind because they have empathy. They can be kind because they feel gratitude. They can be kind because they enjoy being kind. Why do you think people only behave well out of fear? It's entirely possible to take a moment to think about it and come to the conclusion the god of religions is make-believe. That doesn't preclude a person from believing in an order to the universe, or a reason for being, or the virtue of decency or faith in those same things.

You are right. Mike Riley may show tremendous kindness because of his empathetic personality. He may be kind because he experienced it many times during his life - or for some other reason, who knows right? I am only saying that if Mike Riley is acting this way it could be based upon his life experiences - he reached a point where showing these behaviors made him feel like he is following the societal standard - where he would rather fit in then go to jail or face ridicule. The other possible reason is that he believes this is how his higher power acts and he wants to imitate him; that and it's possible he believes his higher power has commanded him to act this way. Either way I believe you proved my point. Empathy and gratitude are learned traits- either from society or from some form of religious belief.

 

[Jonathan Paul]

Let's keep this thread a little more on topic about Coach Riley and so forth; a discussion about whether nonreligious people are sadly lacking may continue in the Politics & Religion forum

I think it should be moved to the Political and Religious forum since this is specifically inquiring about Riley's association with religion, faith, God, etc.

 

[Kernal]

It's obvious Riley lives by a code of decency, humility, respect and care for others. I couldn't care less if he got that way from attending church or from life experience. And I get a little tired of religious people pretending they possess some goodness unavailable to other people- that's nothing but pride and arrogance.

I think a bigger problem is trying to justify/rationalize why someone will behave goodly without any real reason other than societal acceptance. That's what scares me. Fear of law? Fear of opinion? Or simply not really ever taking a moment to even think about it. sh#t, some people live and breathe to help people - they even die without ever considering why. Does that matter?

Why does it need be fear of anything? People can be kind because they have empathy. They can be kind because they feel gratitude. They can be kind because they enjoy being kind. Why do you think people only behave well out of fear? It's entirely possible to take a moment to think about it and come to the conclusion the god of religions is make-believe. That doesn't preclude a person from believing in an order to the universe, or a reason for being, or the virtue of decency or faith in those same things.

You are right. Mike Riley may show tremendous kindness because of his empathetic personality. He may be kind because he experienced it many times during his life - or for some other reason, who knows right? I am only saying that if Mike Riley is acting this way it could be based upon his life experiences - he reached a point where showing these behaviors made him feel like he is following the societal standard. The other possible reason is that he believes this is how his higher power acts and he wants to imitate him; that and it's possible he believes his higher power has commanded him to act this way.

Where does love fit into this either/or explanation? I love my daughter not because society expects it or due to any thought about imitating/following God. My love for her is deeper than human explanation and would exist 100% without religion or society. So it's possible that some people feel love for other people, and don't necessarily treat them well due to fear or conformity but a genuine desire to lift other people up.

 

[Jonathan Paul]

I think love is interesting. I don't really know anyone who doesn't enjoy being loved or cared about. Love is a unique behavior there is no doubt. I don't see love as a societal norm. It seems to be more confined to a small clan - family, relatives, etc; however, I know people who love out of a care for humanity rather than out of that familial/friend relationship. Though, I would estimate that the same way you love and perceive your daughter (beautiful, priceless, and worth fighting for) is the same way some people say their higher power loves them. To reach a point where you can love humanity the same way you love your daughter is probably something you will not learn or acquire just by following societal standards - it would take much more than that. I believe to achieve that you would have to follow some sort of religion or believe in some higher power. I don't know any society in the world who is currently trying to implement this type of love (the love you have for your daughter) as a societal norm. I think Mike Riley loves his athletes - he enjoys seeing them succeed, he enjoys seeing them happy, etc. But does he love them the same way he loves his daughter Kate? You know he loves his daughter Kate. When his wife called him to tell him Kate was pregnant he said, "I don't know if I was having a heart attack or what.:" Mike very well may love his athletes the same way he loves Kate, but I would most likely contribute that to his Christian faith rather than a societal norm. I don't think that's debatable really. I mean societal norms have come a ways but they have been back-pedaling for a while and I don't expect societal norms to shift towards the loving direction.

 

[grandpasknee]

I mean in a football coach, I personally don't think faith really matters. What matters is working towards a successful football program.

Interesting. So being responsible for shaping/leading young men in athletics and college is irrelevant as long as the football program is successful? Do you believe that the leadership in the football program should have certain moral convictions having the responsibility they have?

One does not have to be religious or believe in a higher being to show leadership, moral convictions, responsibility and lead men. One can have "faith in their abilities" and be successful without believing in god.
I do not know Mike Riley's beliefs, and honestly I don't need to. Success in my book is not just winning but mentoring young men and setting a good example for them, for our state etc. Riley has proven he is fit for this job, regardless of where he goes or doesn't go to worship on Sunday.

So where does one develop and acquire moral convictions? Where does one acquire the discipline to adhere to these moral convictions and furthermore go out into the world and demonstrate them before others?

parents, their community, and many other sources. Religion isn't the only thing teaching people to be good, sometimes people just want to be like other great people.

Where do parents, the community and other sources, and you, and I and other derive our notion of what "good" means?

 

[LJsurf41]

It's obvious Riley lives by a code of decency, humility, respect and care for others. I couldn't care less if he got that way from attending church or from life experience. And I get a little tired of religious people pretending they possess some goodness unavailable to other people- that's nothing but pride and arrogance.

It's available to everyone. The arrogant are the ones that don't feels like they need anything other than themselves.

Gnosticism in a nutshell, excellent response sir. *golf clap*