Utter

[ColoradoHusk]

I generally don't like being hyper-critical of the players, as they are 18-22 year old young men, just playing a game.

However, Utter did not play well on Saturday, and his effort was lacking at some key times. Effort is 100% controllable by the player.

 

[NUance]

A couple of things: First, it's okay to discuss a Husker player's performance—good or bad. But it's NOT okay to totally throw the guy under the bus. If he's playing, he is the best we have at that position.

I realize Utter gets beat sometimes. But there are other times when he holds his own. That, and there are other aspects of the center position. We haven't seen too many C/QB exchange problems lately. Has Tommy fumbled it off the snap this year? I don't remember any. And calling the blocking schemes. I guess he must be doing okay calling assignments. So there's that.

The two videos are pretty bad. They may be his two worst plays. But the guy is a gamer. Never a spot of trouble off the field. And think about the coin he had to shell out as a walk-on for the honor of coming to play for us. Say what you will about the times he gets blown up, but you gotta give Utter credit for panning out as a walk-on. Not many guys go from walk-on to a starting role on a P5 team. Still, we are gonna need better from the center position if we ever expect to have a running game in the Big Ten. Or pass protection.

Finally, recruiting. How could anyone possibly not lay much of the bare cupboard O-line responsibility on Pelini? As a rule you don't see too many true frosh starting on the O-line. Or even sophomores, for that matter. Riley has had one full recruiting cycle, plus the tail end of the 2015 recruiting period. So at this point Cav is pretty much relying on what he inherited. But starting about next year the Pelini excuse isn't going to cut it anymore for Riley and Cav.

 

[Pedro Guerrero]

CM is only trying to offset his own stupidity and his own ignorance, both of which are obvious to wven the most rare of reader, by taking this fake, self riteous, highand mightier than thou, defend the players at all costs approach.

Any time you want to compare football credentials rather than levy personal attacks, let me know in a PM.

[SIZE=medium]So does this mean that if someone has less football credentials than someone else the person with the lower credentials is not allowed to question the person with the better credentials?[/SIZE]

 

[cm husker]

I'm entirely sick of the bs "cupboard" is bare arguments. It's not supported by any real facts that are usually relied on in these discussions (e.g., recruiting ratings, particularly relative to our opponents).

It's based on lazy inductive reasoning that concludes that bad results mean bad talent because that's more comfortable than admitting that we have an average at best coaching staff.

I've seen this movie before. I really wish Husker fans would quit rebooting it.

 

[cm husker]

CM is only trying to offset his own stupidity and his own ignorance, both of which are obvious to wven the most rare of reader, by taking this fake, self riteous, highand mightier than thou, defend the players at all costs approach.

Any time you want to compare football credentials rather than levy personal attacks, let me know in a PM.

So does this mean that if someone has less football credentials then someone else the person with the lower credentials is not allowed to question the person with the better credentials?

Of course not.

Not even sure how you drew that from my statement. Or are you drawing it from the personal attack levied by billy?

 

[ColoradoHusk]

I'm entirely sick of the bs "cupboard" is bare arguments. It's not supported by any real facts that are usually relied on in these discussions (e.g., recruiting ratings, particularly relative to our opponents).

It's based on lazy reductive reasoning that concludes that bad results mean bad talent because that's more comfortable than admitting that we have an average at best coaching staff.

I've seen this movie before. I really wish Husker fans would quit rebooting it.

CM, you love to beat this drum all the time, and I do see where you are coming from. The cupboard was far from bare, especially at the skill positions. There is a good enough talent on the roster for the team to realistically go 10-2 this year.

However, I don't know how you can realistically say there was quality depth on the o-line. There just wasn't. There were big recruiting and early development misses by Bo and his staff with o-linemen who should be juniors and seniors. That is a big reason that Utter is starting. Now, I think that the coaching staff could have played some of the true freshmen o-linemen this year to provide more depth.

 

[ScottyIce]

I'd need to see the tape. But it's kind of incredible that a guy so supposedly bad would start about 23 games at this point.

People see a couple of bad plays and jump all over a guy while ignoring what is done well.

If we are so weak in passpro, maybe we should give these guys a better shot by running more and using true play action. That would take a lot of pressure off guys like utter.

The coaches have to start 5 players on the o-line. Utter is not good, but he's the only guy who can do the job this year. That's why he's been starting for 2 years.

How can he possibly be the only guy who can do the job?

The only other center on the team is Decker, and he's having issues. The coaches have decided to redshirt all the true freshman. I think it's worth arguing that the freshmen could be playing, but to say that Utter is not bad just because he's started for 2 years is a flawed argument.

If we can win 9-10-11 games, WHICH WILL HAPPEN, and redshirt TRUE FRESHMEN OL, then we won, and we won big.

Almost all OL need to redshirt, heck, almost all freshmen need to redshirt. I understand it doesn't happen a ton, but we are sitting really pretty in terms of development due to the fact that we have been able to redshirt 80% of the past 2 recruiting classes. IT'S HOW YOU HAVE TO BUILD A PROGRAM. Then once in a while, you get a STUD (Sarrell) and they can step in right away because they are that good.

 

[desertshox]

I'm entirely sick of the bs "cupboard" is bare arguments. It's not supported by any real facts that are usually relied on in these discussions (e.g., recruiting ratings, particularly relative to our opponents).

It's based on lazy inductive reasoning that concludes that bad results mean bad talent because that's more comfortable than admitting that we have an average at best coaching staff.

I've seen this movie before. I really wish Husker fans would quit rebooting it.

one would expect more from someone who has such lofty credentials. recruiting rankings only show part of the equation.

but then again looking at the whole picture doesnt justify your agenda.

 

[ScottyIce]

A couple of things: First, it's okay to discuss a Husker player's performance—good or bad. But it's NOT okay to totally throw the guy under the bus. If he's playing, he is the best we have at that position.

I realize Utter gets beat sometimes. But there are other times when he holds his own. That, and there are other aspects of the center position. We haven't seen too many C/QB exchange problems lately. Has Tommy fumbled it off the snap this year? I don't remember any. And calling the blocking schemes. I guess he must be doing okay calling assignments. So there's that.

The two videos are pretty bad. They may be his two worst plays. But the guy is a gamer. Never a spot of trouble off the field. And think about the coin he had to shell out as a walk-on for the honor of coming to play for us. Say what you will about the times he gets blown up, but you gotta give Utter credit for panning out as a walk-on. Not many guys go from walk-on to a starting role on a P5 team. Still, we are gonna need better from the center position if we ever expect to have a running game in the Big Ten. Or pass protection.

Finally, recruiting. How could anyone possibly not lay much of the bare cupboard O-line responsibility on Pelini? As a rule you don't see too many true frosh starting on the O-line. Or even sophomores, for that matter. Riley has had one full recruiting cycle, plus the tail end of the 2015 recruiting period. So at this point Cav is pretty much relying on what he inherited. But starting about next year the Pelini excuse isn't going to cut it anymore for Riley and Cav.

Agreed.

Although, we will still be starting 4 of Pelini's recruits on the OL... Yes, they are being coached by this staff, I get it.

(Gates, Foster, Farmer, Knevel)

 

[cm husker]

I'm entirely sick of the bs "cupboard" is bare arguments. It's not supported by any real facts that are usually relied on in these discussions (e.g., recruiting ratings, particularly relative to our opponents).

It's based on lazy reductive reasoning that concludes that bad results mean bad talent because that's more comfortable than admitting that we have an average at best coaching staff.

I've seen this movie before. I really wish Husker fans would quit rebooting it.

CM, you love to beat this drum all the time, and I do see where you are coming from. The cupboard was far from bare, especially at the skill positions. There is a good enough talent on the roster for the team to realistically go 10-2 this year.
However, I don't know how you can realistically say there was quality depth on the o-line. There just wasn't. There were big recruiting and early development misses by Bo and his staff with o-linemen who should be juniors and seniors. That is a big reason that Utter is starting. Now, I think that the coaching staff could have played some of the true freshmen o-linemen this year to provide more depth.

I understand where you're coming from. My central point is that if NU doesn't have quality depth, then very few teams have quality depth, because NU has recruited better than most. And the old staff shouldn't be blamed for this staff losing guys like Thurston (not to mention 3 d lineman).
My secondary point is that things are unlikely to improve much, if at all, so it's concerning that this staff can't take this roster and make them more dominant than they have been.

 

[cm husker]

I'd need to see the tape. But it's kind of incredible that a guy so supposedly bad would start about 23 games at this point.

People see a couple of bad plays and jump all over a guy while ignoring what is done well.

If we are so weak in passpro, maybe we should give these guys a better shot by running more and using true play action. That would take a lot of pressure off guys like utter.

The coaches have to start 5 players on the o-line. Utter is not good, but he's the only guy who can do the job this year. That's why he's been starting for 2 years.

How can he possibly be the only guy who can do the job?

The only other center on the team is Decker, and he's having issues. The coaches have decided to redshirt all the true freshman. I think it's worth arguing that the freshmen could be playing, but to say that Utter is not bad just because he's started for 2 years is a flawed argument.

If we can win 9-10-11 games, WHICH WILL HAPPEN, and redshirt TRUE FRESHMEN OL, then we won, and we won big.

Almost all OL need to redshirt, heck, almost all freshmen need to redshirt. I understand it doesn't happen a ton, but we are sitting really pretty in terms of development due to the fact that we have been able to redshirt 80% of the past 2 recruiting classes. IT'S HOW YOU HAVE TO BUILD A PROGRAM. Then once in a while, you get a STUD (Sarrell) and they can step in right away because they are that good.

Has Sarrell committed to NU?

 

[cm husker]

A couple of things: First, it's okay to discuss a Husker player's performancegood or bad. But it's NOT okay to totally throw the guy under the bus. If he's playing, he is the best we have at that position.

I realize Utter gets beat sometimes. But there are other times when he holds his own. That, and there are other aspects of the center position. We haven't seen too many C/QB exchange problems lately. Has Tommy fumbled it off the snap this year? I don't remember any. And calling the blocking schemes. I guess he must be doing okay calling assignments. So there's that.

The two videos are pretty bad. They may be his two worst plays. But the guy is a gamer. Never a spot of trouble off the field. And think about the coin he had to shell out as a walk-on for the honor of coming to play for us. Say what you will about the times he gets blown up, but you gotta give Utter credit for panning out as a walk-on. Not many guys go from walk-on to a starting role on a P5 team. Still, we are gonna need better from the center position if we ever expect to have a running game in the Big Ten. Or pass protection.

Finally, recruiting. How could anyone possibly not lay much of the bare cupboard O-line responsibility on Pelini? As a rule you don't see too many true frosh starting on the O-line. Or even sophomores, for that matter. Riley has had one full recruiting cycle, plus the tail end of the 2015 recruiting period. So at this point Cav is pretty much relying on what he inherited. But starting about next year the Pelini excuse isn't going to cut it anymore for Riley and Cav.

Agreed.

Although, we will still be starting 4 of Pelini's recruits on the OL... Yes, they are being coached by this staff, I get it.

(Gates, Foster, Farmer, Knevel)

Four guys who were highly rated and had offers from top 10 programs coming out of HS.

But I get that you believe they are sh**ty because of who recruited them.

 

[ColoradoHusk]

I'd need to see the tape. But it's kind of incredible that a guy so supposedly bad would start about 23 games at this point.

People see a couple of bad plays and jump all over a guy while ignoring what is done well.

If we are so weak in passpro, maybe we should give these guys a better shot by running more and using true play action. That would take a lot of pressure off guys like utter.

The coaches have to start 5 players on the o-line. Utter is not good, but he's the only guy who can do the job this year. That's why he's been starting for 2 years.

How can he possibly be the only guy who can do the job?

The only other center on the team is Decker, and he's having issues. The coaches have decided to redshirt all the true freshman. I think it's worth arguing that the freshmen could be playing, but to say that Utter is not bad just because he's started for 2 years is a flawed argument.

If we can win 9-10-11 games, WHICH WILL HAPPEN, and redshirt TRUE FRESHMEN OL, then we won, and we won big.

Almost all OL need to redshirt, heck, almost all freshmen need to redshirt. I understand it doesn't happen a ton, but we are sitting really pretty in terms of development due to the fact that we have been able to redshirt 80% of the past 2 recruiting classes. IT'S HOW YOU HAVE TO BUILD A PROGRAM. Then once in a while, you get a STUD (Sarrell) and they can step in right away because they are that good.

This is where I disagree with you. Winning 9-10-11 games will be nice, but that's not winning big. The only thing that would make this season a "winning big" season is the division championship. I think NU could have used some of those freshmen o-linemen and they could have played against Wisconsin and made a difference in that game. Winning that Wisconsin game and winning the division is why you play those freshmen o-linemen.

 

[NUance]

I'm entirely sick of the bs "cupboard" is bare arguments. It's not supported by any real facts that are usually relied on in these discussions (e.g., recruiting ratings, particularly relative to our opponents).

It's based on lazy inductive reasoning that concludes that bad results mean bad talent because that's more comfortable than admitting that we have an average at best coaching staff.

I've seen this movie before. I really wish Husker fans would quit rebooting it.

So you must either think we have lots of O-line talent sitting on the bench, or somehow our coaching staff made our O-line play worse than their potential. Which is it? Or do you have some other theory as to why it couldn't possibly be the blame of the greatest football mind in the history of the known universe, Bo Pelini?

 

[cm husker]

I believe that Utter is too harshly criticized.

I believe Cavanaugh is wrong minded in his approach to not playing backups. I also believe that Riley and he may (MAY) be wrong to not play at least one of the freshman or the redshirt freshman. I get wanting to preserve redshirt, but you don't do that to the detriment of this year's team.

I think that schematically, we don't help our linemen (or other offensive players) out very much.

Do we have an amazing OL in terms of 4 or 5 guys going to the NFL? No (but who does?).

Do we have a good enough OL to be more productive offensively than we have been? I believe yes.

And if we were so bad on the OL, why didn't this staff land a JUCO during the past two classes?