Healthcare Reform

TheSker said:
I agree with tort system reform, though it's more easy said than done.

Solvency, which is related to an insurance company's rating, is a good thing.

Do you know what all goes in to obtaining the patent on a drug?  Do you know how long a patent is good for?

I realize it's easy to point a finger at "evil" corporate America, but we are a capitalistic market, right?
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You convieniently left out the very next line. 

Healthcare should not be a for profit enterprise. 

Yes we are a capitalistic market, but must we have this ideology for every facet of our lives? Seems leveraging someones poor health for as much cash  as possible is creating an unsustainable system. 

 
TheSker said:
I agree with tort system reform, though it's more easy said than done.

Solvency, which is related to an insurance company's rating, is a good thing.

Do you know what all goes in to obtaining the patent on a drug?  Do you know how long a patent is good for?

I realize it's easy to point a finger at "evil" corporate America, but we are a capitalistic market, right?
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Capitalism isn't the issue here.  Price gouging by greedy pharma corporations are the problem.  

Big Pharma

"On page 17 you’ll find the above table which is an analysis of the consolidated statements of income for Pfizer. You can see from the first line that Pfizer reported just over $67 billion in revenue in 2011. A few lines down you can see that they spent just over $9 billion on research and development that same year. OK, $9 billion is a lot of money. It was nearly 14% of their total revenue.

But what’s really interesting is that you can see that Pfizer spent more than twice as much on Marketing (selling, informational and administrative expenses) as they spent on research; over $19 billion! And look at their profit for that year. They made just over $10 billion in net income (after taxes)."
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So Pfizer spent 9 billion on R&D and 19 billion on marketing?  Seems to me that your implied argument of obtaining patents is expensive is pretty flimsy, given Pfizer's net profit of 10 billion.

And if we as an American society truly want to bring down the cost of healthcare, we have to address the elephant in the room: GREED. 

And point of clarification: I'm talking about greed on the part of all parties involved

 
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Nebfanatic said:
You convieniently left out the very next line. 

Healthcare should not be a for profit enterprise. 

Yes we are a capitalistic market, but must we have this ideology for every facet of our lives? Seems leveraging someones poor health for as much cash  as possible is creating an unsustainable system. 
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Thank you. 

And also, the concept of exploiting people who are poor and/or the most vunerable is pretty sleazy.

 
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Nebfanatic said:
You convieniently left out the very next line. 

Healthcare should not be a for profit enterprise. 

Yes we are a capitalistic market, but must we have this ideology for every facet of our lives? Seems leveraging someones poor health for as much cash  as possible is creating an unsustainable system. 
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There is not for profit healthcare available to those who qualify financially.

One if the better aspects of a market demand or capitalistic system is drawing top level talent.  In other words, quality of healthcare can suffer.

Answers are not always as easy as "we should just........"

 
TheSker said:
There is not for profit healthcare available to those who qualify financially.

One if the better aspects of a market demand or capitalistic system is drawing top level talent.  In other words, quality of healthcare can suffer.

Answers are not always as easy as "we should just........"
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No one has made it this simple, but the fact of the matter is the system in place is not working for the American people, and some of that stems directly from a capitalistic approach to healthcare. 

 
TheSker said:
There is not for profit healthcare available to those who qualify financially.

One if the better aspects of a market demand or capitalistic system is drawing top level talent.  In other words, quality of healthcare can suffer.

Answers are not always as easy as "we should just........"
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Except the 31 other modern nations in the world all have some form of single payer healthcare and it's working. And the US ranks in the middle of the pack in quality, so it's not like we have amazing care now.

We already know what will work, it's a matter of political/social will to get there.

 
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RedDenver said:
Except the 31 other modern nations in the world all have some form of single payer healthcare and it's working. And the US ranks in the middle of the pack in quality, so it's not like we have amazing care now.

We already know what will work, it's a matter of political/social will to get there.
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Single payer and not for profit are two different financial models.

Regarding single payer (or government run), Margaret Thatcher said it best regarding other people's money.....

 
TheSker said:
Single payer and not for profit are two different financial models.

Regarding single payer (or government run), Margaret Thatcher said it best regarding other people's money.....
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What? Single payer systems are usually not for profit. Those are two different things that aren't mutually exclusive.

Thatcher was one of the big proponents of neoliberalism, so her view here isn't surprising. But the data and the evidence don't match her expected outcome.

 
Our system isn't so bad.....

My wife and I did a thought experiment.  If one of our children were to be diagnosed with cancer all we have to do is file for divorce.  In the divorce, my wife wins the house and custody of the kids.  I of course then take on house payments and child support.  But it would be worth it because she would cut back her work hours to qualify for medicaid benefits for the kids.  We would actually come out ahead.  Hopefully she'll take me back when our kid is healthy and not hang on to the free house and lack of  a pain in the a$$ husband.

:sarcasm

 
TheSker said:
There is not for profit healthcare available to those who qualify financially.

One if the better aspects of a market demand or capitalistic system is drawing top level talent.  In other words, quality of healthcare can suffer.

Answers are not always as easy as "we should just........"
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To the bolded: this is where you and I fundamentally disagree.

It's "not as easy as 'we should just'" because people make excuses to attempt to justify their greed.  Why can't we just tell insurance companies you can no longer make a profit on health insurance coverage?  Why can't we just tell big pharma your days of ripping off and price gouging  consumers are over.  Why can't we just scrap tbe entire system and start over?

Why?

Because every g**d*** step of the way crooked, greedy, corrupt people, who are just out to make as much money as they can, stymie the process.  They give "reasons" why it supposedly cannot be done.  It's all bull****!  None of the players in this industry want their gravy train to end.  So all we get are patbetic excuses as to why it cannot be done.

 
Landlord said:
One reason is because thousands of people would die and suffer terribly in the time it takes to do that and to codify it into law. 
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I'm not talking about stopping continuity of care, so no one would die.  (At least not from a lack of care.)

I'm talking about simplifying healthcare, getting rid of--or eliminating as much as possible, the bureaucracy on the administrative side.  I've worked collecting medical records.  I've seen first hand the huge staffs HIM departments have to have just to make sure records comply with not only HIPAA, but relevant CFRs, varying state statutes, etc.  CMS (Center For Medicare and Medicaid Services is a huge government bureaucracy that sets policy on healthcare.  Then there are insurance companies who have their own bureaucracy and administration which adds to the overhead cost of health care.  Then there are the pharma corporations whose price gouging of meds should (in my opinion) be a crime.  Martin Shkreli was convicted of securities fraud but should have been convicted of price gouging also.

But the point is, changing our healthcare system so that quality stays high and costs low will more than lilely never happen because (as I stated previously) too many people are riding this gravy train and will fight reform because it takes away their seat at the buffet.  

 
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