Where We Speak Less-than-Fondly of Former Coaches

[4skers89]

Been waiting for a thread like this. Let me tell you how I feel about Bill Jennings. What a loser!

 

[LaunchCode]

It doesn't water anything down. It may give you an excuse to dismiss it instead of have a rebuttal but all it shows is it was pretty obvious to see how bad it was right away if you were willing to see it.

:movegoalpost:

Rebutting a purely subjective opinion is a waste of time no amount of facts presented are going to change.   

What I initially stated was fact and not opinion, Banker's D shut down Wisconsin's offense with Oregon St type talent. So why do you think that wouldn't work here?  Are you saying Oregon State had better talent?

 

[Mavric]

Rebutting a purely subjective opinion is a waste of time no amount of facts presented are going to change.   

It's not a purely subjective opinion.  It's comes from looking at the stats.

From a post a couple years ago (end of the 2016 season):

Below is a comparison of how many yards per play we allowed for the year compared to what our opponents averaged for the same year. Not a perfect metric but it adjusts for several variables such as strength of offenses faced and pace of play. As you can see, last year's defense was within a stone's throw of the 2007 unit for the worst in the last 14 years (as far back as I could find stats). This year's seems better because of the bad offenses we faced but is really right in the ballpark with the vaunted Callahan defenses. The yards per play we allowed were all but identical to the rest of the defenses our opponents faced meaning we were barley above average.

YEAR - YPP - OYPP - DIFF
2003 - 4.3 - 5.15 -(0.85)

2004 - 5.0 - 4.91 - 0.09
2005 - 4.6 - 4.85 -(0.25)
2006 - 5.2 - 5.38 -(0.18)
2007 - 6.0 - 5.53 - 0.47

2008 - 5.4 - 5.41 -(0.01)
2009 - 3.9 - 5.21 -(1.31)
2010 - 4.5 - 5.29 -(0.79)
2011 - 5.2 - 5.51 -(0.31)
2012 - 5.3 - 5.48 -(0.18)
2013 - 4.9 - 5.36 -(0.46)
2014 - 5.2 - 5.53 -(0.33)

2015 - 5.7 - 5.28 - 0.42
2016 - 5.2 - 5.30 -(0.10)

 

We were also poor in allowing 20+ yard runs (#83 in the country) and Red Zone defense (scoring % - #80).

The 2015 defense was all but identical to the 2007 defense in terms of allowing more yards per play than the opponents were averaging against the rest of their schedule.  They were both over half a yard per play worse than almost any other defense we've had over that time period.

What I initially stated was fact and not opinion, Banker's D shut down Wisconsin's offense with Oregon St type talent. So why do you think that wouldn't work here?  Are you saying Oregon State had better talent?

It's not a question of why it wouldn't work.  It didn't work.  

You're cherry-picking one game and acting like that's what Banker's defenses were always like.  That year (2012) they were decent.  The year before they were #86 in the country.  The year after they were #101.  Why did it only work for him one year?  If it was only going to work one year, why couldn't 2016 been the one year it "worked"?  The year before Wisconsin beat them 35-0?  Why couldn't he shut Wisconsin down that year?

 

[LaunchCode]

It's not a purely subjective opinion.  It's comes from looking at the stats.

From a post a couple years ago (end of the 2016 season):

Below is a comparison of how many yards per play we allowed for the year compared to what our opponents averaged for the same year. Not a perfect metric but it adjusts for several variables such as strength of offenses faced and pace of play. As you can see, last year's defense was within a stone's throw of the 2007 unit for the worst in the last 14 years (as far back as I could find stats). This year's seems better because of the bad offenses we faced but is really right in the ballpark with the vaunted Callahan defenses. The yards per play we allowed were all but identical to the rest of the defenses our opponents faced meaning we were barley above average.

YEAR - YPP - OYPP - DIFF
2003 - 4.3 - 5.15 -(0.85)

2004 - 5.0 - 4.91 - 0.09
2005 - 4.6 - 4.85 -(0.25)
2006 - 5.2 - 5.38 -(0.18)
2007 - 6.0 - 5.53 - 0.47

2008 - 5.4 - 5.41 -(0.01)
2009 - 3.9 - 5.21 -(1.31)
2010 - 4.5 - 5.29 -(0.79)
2011 - 5.2 - 5.51 -(0.31)
2012 - 5.3 - 5.48 -(0.18)
2013 - 4.9 - 5.36 -(0.46)
2014 - 5.2 - 5.53 -(0.33)

2015 - 5.7 - 5.28 - 0.42
2016 - 5.2 - 5.30 -(0.10)

 

We were also poor in allowing 20+ yard runs (#83 in the country) and Red Zone defense (scoring % - #80).

The 2015 defense was all but identical to the 2007 defense in terms of allowing more yards per play than the opponents were averaging against the rest of their schedule.  They were both over half a yard per play worse than almost any other defense we've had over that time period.

It's not a question of why it wouldn't work.  It didn't work.  

You're cherry-picking one game and acting like that's what Banker's defenses were always like.  That year (2012) they were decent.  The year before they were #86 in the country.  The year after they were #101.  Why did it only work for him one year?  If it was only going to work one year, why couldn't 2016 been the one year it "worked"?  The year before Wisconsin beat them 35-0?  Why couldn't he shut Wisconsin down that year?

I'm not cherry picking anymore than you are.  If we can both agree Wisconsin is the game we need to start winning to turn things around then looking at how a Banker defense dominated a Wisconsin offense is relevant to that point.  Not the whole story, but certainly on point for the goal at hand which is to beat Wisconsin.

I hope we can also agree comparing numbers from one season to another is also not the whole story.  Different players, schedules, coaching changes etc, all can play a big role in the numbers.   A program like OrSt. clearly doesn't reload every year so of course you'd expect ups and downs.

My biggest disagreement was with your original statement, Banker is terrible and after less than one half of his first game(BYU) you had already made up your mind.  Considering a team can actually take a step backwards when a new system and coaches are brought in that just seems like an opinion you had already formed long before you even watched that first half.  This years team is a prime example of what can happen when new coaches take over.  I'm not declaring Chin terrible after an 0-5 start.  I have my doubts, but he deserves time before final judgement.

 

[Undone]

Well if we're never going to be loaded with talent and always need coaching to save our asses and get us to championship level football, we're probably never going to get there consistently.

This is why my favorite part of this forum is actually dissecting scheme and player ability. When things work, I don't really care why. When things don't work, I'm constantly trying to figure out if our guys just aren't being coached to do what they really need to be doing. And things haven't been working for quite a while now.

 

[billdozer15]

Many people had their opinions on Riley and his entire staff formulated long before that first game.

An instance where you could in fact "read a book by the cover" or "use the past to tell the future"

In the context of this thread headline:

I hate Bill Callahan

I'm Meh about Bo Pelini

I absolutely loathe, despise and have extreme disdain for Michelle O'Reilly.

 

[JJ Husker]

Many people had their opinions on Riley and his entire staff formulated long before that first game.

And they were right. I’m ashamed it took me a year and a half to catch up with them.

 

[Mavric]

I'm not cherry picking anymore than you are.  If we can both agree Wisconsin is the game we need to start winning to turn things around then looking at how a Banker defense dominated a Wisconsin offense is relevant to that point.  Not the whole story, but certainly on point for the goal at hand which is to beat Wisconsin.

You are cherry picking.  Why are you only talking about one game where they did well against Wisconsin and not another game where they were blown out.  That's cherry picking.  Not to mention only talking about one game out of however long Banker's career is.  I'm talking about stats over an entire year.  Not cherry picking.

I hope we can also agree comparing numbers from one season to another is also not the whole story.  Different players, schedules, coaching changes etc, all can play a big role in the numbers.   A program like OrSt. clearly doesn't reload every year so of course you'd expect ups and downs.

If Banker was that good, it should have carried over from season to season.  You only want to talk about one game where he happened to do well.  Probalby because that's one of the few that fits your narrative.

My biggest disagreement was with your original statement, Banker is terrible and after less than one half of his first game(BYU) you had already made up your mind.  Considering a team can actually take a step backwards when a new system and coaches are brought in that just seems like an opinion you had already formed long before you even watched that first half.  This years team is a prime example of what can happen when new coaches take over.  I'm not declaring Chin terrible after an 0-5 start.  I have my doubts, but he deserves time before final judgement.

You can disagree all you want.  I was proved correct by the results.  You continue to ignore the fact that we don't have to have our opinions validated by just one half.  We have two entire seasons to make a judgement.  You don't want to believe it so you continue to talk about what might have happened later.  

 

[Jeremy]

I appreciated Banker's scheme for the fact that we we didn't give up mountains of rushing yards (408) to teams like Wisconsin, but Ohio State sliced through it like butter. Chinander is curious. We come out vs. CU blitzing them every other down, but since then it's like we can't play football without a 2-high shell 15 yards off the ball, much like Diaco. 

Maybe Chin is waiting until he gets another Terrell Farley, Eric Warfield, Mike Brown, Grant Wistrom and Jason Peter to pull the trigger on pressure. Given the trainwreck that has been Nebraska's defense for a good while, I think we all appreciate former blackshirt squads and what they accomplished all the more.

I like his A-gap twist and double A-gap blitz, though. Quick, direct pressure on the QB. Send 'em, Chin! Damn the torpedoes!

 

[krc1995]

I appreciated Banker's scheme for the fact that we we didn't give up mountains of rushing yards (408) to teams like Wisconsin, but Ohio State sliced through it like butter. Chinander is curious. We come out vs. CU blitzing them every other down, but since then it's like we can't play football without a 2-high shell 15 yards off the ball, much like Diaco. 

Maybe Chin is waiting until he gets another Terrell Farley, Eric Warfield, Mike Brown, Grant Wistrom and Jason Peter to pull the trigger on pressure. Given the trainwreck that has been Nebraska's defense for a good while, I think we all appreciate former blackshirt squads and what they accomplished all the more.

I like his A-gap twist and double A-gap blitz, though. Quick, direct pressure on the QB. Send 'em, Chin! Damn the torpedoes!

It seems to me(no data, all feeling) that we brought a lot pressure in the Colorado game and have backed off in all games since. It was successful then so why not now? 

 

[4skers89]

It seems to me(no data, all feeling) that we brought a lot pressure in the Colorado game and have backed off in all games since. It was successful then so why not now? 

I can think of 2 reasons, either Chin thinks we can get the job done without it or the players have lost Chin's trust to execute properly.  If I had to guess, it would be the latter.

 

[Making Chimichangas]

In the age of social media where deliberate falsehoods and half truths are posted by the second, my question back to you is, why don't more people call out b.s. when they see it.

That's what @In the Deed the Glory did with your post.

 

[lo country]

Banker was terrible.  It didn't even take me one half of one game - watching the BYU game from the stands - to figure out that his defense wouldn't work.

His 2015 defense was literally 2007 bad.  The 2016 stats look better but we also played the #124, #105, #97(t), #113, #71, #97(t), #100, #73 and #94 offenses in yards per play.  So our defense looked better playing against bad offenses.

I agree.  IIRC, (I’ve tried to forget those 3 years), our run D stats were skewed as teams went air raid against our poor pass D. Again, I might be completely wrong.  

 

[Saunders]

Rebutting a purely subjective opinion is a waste of time no amount of facts presented are going to change.   

What I initially stated was fact and not opinion, Banker's D shut down Wisconsin's offense with Oregon St type talent. So why do you think that wouldn't work here?  Are you saying Oregon State had better talent?

Banker's D made every QB we faced look like Drew Brees.

 

[Saunders]

Many people had their opinions on Riley and his entire staff formulated long before that first game.

It's not like it was a secret. Some people were actually shocked when he came in and coached a .500 team that was soft and got dominated by bad teams. That was his last half a decade at Oregon State.