Scott Frost at half time?

Undone said:
My interpretation is considerably different: Frost is creating a narrative that talent is an issue as an excuse for their inability to take a group of completely serviceable players and - after a year and a half under their coaching - turn this defense into a unit that doesn't suck like Riley's teams.

But they can't do it.

Your/others' reply will be "but we can't do such a thing without the talent on defense."

I then come back with comparative recruiting rankings for other B1G defenses and their starting front seven to show we have equal or perhaps more relative talent.

Then the next excuse is brought to the table about "culture," "lack of toughness," or whatever the excuse du jour is.
Click to expand...
You are welcome to your interpretation, but I'm not interested in discussing because it would be a circular debate.

You're welcome to be as critical as you like.

It seems like it's been mentioned 1,000 times why recruiting rankings prior to Frost's arrival are meaningless.  A high percentage of those guys were part of the attrition of roster flipping.

Reading your above post, it seems rather obvious you don't think Frost is the right guy.

 
Undone said:
My interpretation is considerably different: Frost is creating a narrative that talent is an issue as an excuse for their inability to take a group of completely serviceable players and - after a year and a half under their coaching - turn this defense into a unit that doesn't suck like Riley's teams.

But they can't do it.

Your/others' reply will be "but we can't do such a thing without the talent on defense."

I then come back with comparative recruiting rankings for other B1G defenses and their starting front seven to show we have equal or perhaps more relative talent.

Then the next excuse is brought to the table about "culture," "lack of toughness," or whatever the excuse du jour is.
Click to expand...
High school recruiting rankings are not necessarily an accurate gauge for assessing properly developed “talent” especially when it comes to college upperclassmen.  Also you should factor in that some of our seniors have had multiple coaches and coordinators.  It’s not necessarily their fault they are not playing at a high level.  Let’s give our younger players 3 years with the same coaches and see what happens. 

 
TheSker said:
It seems like it's been mentioned 1,000 times why recruiting rankings prior to Frost's arrival are meaningless.  A high percentage of those guys were part of the attrition of roster flipping.
Click to expand...


How many times do I have to say this: My stats in the other thread that examined Wisconsin's starting front seven to our starting front seven are the guys on the field playing this season, not high-level average class rankings.

 
Decoy73 said:
High school recruiting rankings are not necessarily an accurate gauge for assessing properly developed “talent” especially when it comes to college upperclassmen.
Click to expand...


Everyone that posts regularly on this board understands this. I have said this exact thing verbatim multiple times. However, what other metric would we possibly use if we are going to have a discussion about relative talent? Please think critically about that and then answer that question. You can cross-reference my posts in that other thread where I looked up stats on 24/7 Sports' page.

Decoy73 said:
Also you should factor in that some of our seniors have had multiple coaches and coordinators.
Click to expand...


This is the convenient excuse; Chinander couldn't possibly coach some of the bad play out of some of these guys. Their brains are wrecked for good and they can't play football anymore because they were on a Mike Riley staff. If you really believe that, that's fine. I don't.

 
Undone said:
How many times do I have to say this: My stats in the other thread that examined Wisconsin's starting front seven to our starting front seven are the guys on the field playing this season, not high-level average class rankings.
Click to expand...
Darrion Daniels has been with the program what 6 months?

The Davis twins have had how many defensive coordinators and how many defensive line coaches since they enrolled at Nebraska?

But yeah, ya know Wisconsin and all.....

Frost has his sights set higher than Wisconsin.

 
BlitzFirst said:
You cannot create a false dichotomy just because you want to...the world is not just black and white with only 2 sides.
Click to expand...


I didn't create a false dichotomy. I didn't create a situation where these are the only two choices:

1. He agrees that everything I say is correct.
2. He vehemently defends Frost in the face of contradictory information.

I said in that post that I could be wrong and that his reasons could be some other factor.

 
Undone said:
My interpretation is considerably different: Frost is creating a narrative that talent is an issue as an excuse for their inability to take a group of completely serviceable players and - after a year and a half under their coaching - turn this defense into a unit that doesn't suck like Riley's teams.
Click to expand...


I'm not sold that Chin is the solution on defense, but I still think he should get another year or two before we scrap it and start over again. However, in regards to the staff not being able to turn players into serviceable players don't you think some of that could be the upperclassmen just not buying what the coaches are selling?

What I mean is that the Davis twins were recruiting by Bo to play a 4-3, played a 4-3 under Riley, switched to a 3-4 under Riley, and are now playing a 3-4 under Frost for their third DL coach and DC. They've been coached a million different things and maybe they just aren't doing things the way that they are being coached to in games because they think they know better, trusted their old coaches better, liked the way someone else told them to do it, whatever it may be. Same could be said of our LBs.

I think that is the piece I am waiting on. If next year when Frost and co recruits make up a significant portion of the starters and team and the upperclassmen have had Chins coaching for the majority of their career and we still look like a team that has no idea how to play defense then it's obviously coaching.

 
Undone said:
Hey, TheSker: Put this link into your browser:

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/22

Then tell me who ranks #1. Please, do it. It's Wisconsin.

Frost aims higher than having the #1 defense in the country? 

 
Click to expand...
Wisconsin has played great defense this year.  But, that defense is helped by the style of offense which they use.  Limiting the number of possessions by both teams will inflate your defensive statistics.

I think when people say "NU wants to be better than Wisconsin" it's in terms of being able to compete against all of the teams in the Big Ten, and then the country.  I agree that NU is a LONG way from doing that, but Wisconsin has shown to have trouble against Ohio State and Penn State, and the style of Wisconsin's play has a ceiling.

 
TheSker said:
Having the #1 defense is great, but it hasn't filled their trophy case, has it?

That's what I mean by sights set higher.
Click to expand...


Ok, so you've clarified what you meant. You've clarified now that it didn't have anything to do with whether or not this staff can take talent that is "average" (which indisputably the example with Wisconsin) and turn it into a great defense.

 
Undone said:
Ok, so you've clarified what you meant. You've clarified now that it didn't have anything to do with whether or not this staff can take talent that is "average" (which indisputably the example with Wisconsin) and turn it into a great defense.
Click to expand...
Wisconsin undisputably has a great defense this year.

Their current situation is quite different than Nebraska's, which is what other posters have attempted to say.

You don't buy it.  That's fine.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
TheSker said:
You don't buy it.  That's fine.
Click to expand...


Jim Leonhard is 37 years old and came onto Chryst's staff in February of 2016 as defensive backs coach. Then in February of 2017 he was named defensive coordinator.

So he has one extra year on Chinander in total years on the Wisconsin staff...but has been the defensive coordinator the same amount of time. Now, Chryst has provided much stability as head coach since 2015 - that is for sure significant to the conversation. Very significant.

I've asked before how many years is the minimum amount of time before a fair judgment of Chinander's abilities can be cast. The answer, obviously, varies. I don't want him fired. I just want him to improve, and fast.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top