Chinander Defence: 103 lost points in last 3 games

Husker in WI said:
I just don't know how you measure that because that's not an either/or thing.
Click to expand...
It's my perception, not a measurable statistic.

To that point, do you think Jason Peter would be throwing the bones if he were down by 28 to Miami? Or Suh would flex after being ran over by Ohio State's line all night but sneaks in a sack? I don't believe that either of them would be celebrating individual accomplishments if the team were getting embarrassed. 

 
Wistrom Disciple said:
It's my perception, not a measurable statistic.

To that point, do you think Jason Peter would be throwing the bones if he were down by 28 to Miami? Or Suh would flex after being ran over by Ohio State's line all night but sneaks in a sack? I don't believe that either of them would be celebrating individual accomplishments if the team were getting embarrassed. 
Click to expand...


I mean the first highlight in this video against USC Suh is celebrating - best I can tell we were only down 7-3 at that point, so not quite the situation you're talking about. To answer your question, I don't know whether they would've celebrated or not because they weren't in those situations. I look forward to the day when we don't have to question whether or not they should be celebrating because we're always winning/competitive.




 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thank you, celebrating individually when getting blown out is different than when you're winning or being competitive. Sadly, the current seniors haven't had the same level of winning or being competitive that we have previously enjoyed. Therefore when they draw individual attention to themselves, my perception changes to assume that they are okay with losing so long as they make the highlight reels. 

 
Landlord said:
Someday we'll have to stop using Mike Riley as an excuse for Frost's failures. It's been two years, most all of those players are gone, and Mike Riley isn't the most negatively powerful influence of a previous coach in the history of college football.

The way some people use him to excuse Frost's growing pains paints him out to be some warlock who cast magic spells and curses of laziness and incompetence over every square foot of campus. 
Click to expand...
Bin-freaking-go

We lost to a 2-6 Purdue team.  Without their best player. With their 3rd string QB carving us up.   That’s not Mike Riley’s fault. That is 100% on our staff.

 
Red Five said:
So what are we blaming Riley for then?
Click to expand...
Depends on who "we" is.

The main blame Riley gets is a lack of development of players under his leadership.

Part of Frost's issue is simply from roster flipping and too many of his first recruits not working out.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Wistrom Disciple said:
Thank you, celebrating individually when getting blown out is different than when you're winning or being competitive. Sadly, the current seniors haven't had the same level of winning or being competitive that we have previously enjoyed. Therefore when they draw individual attention to themselves, my perception changes to assume that they are okay with losing so long as they make the highlight reels. 
Click to expand...
Maybe you should be on the sideline for every game that way when ever someone make a play they can look to you for the thumbs up or down on whether or not it's an appropriate time to celebrate during a game.

 
Landlord said:
He didn't suck bad enough to give Frost an excuse to be facing down another losing season late into year two. 
Click to expand...


So much this. In my opinion, coaching cost last year's team 2-3 games, easily. Yet, it was largely attributed to the losing culture created by Riley and his staff. Despite how bad Riley sucked...the 2018 team could have (and probably should have) made a bowl game. It hasn't been kosher to criticize Frost until relatively recently. But damn, this is on him. People want to blame the assistants, and they may be bad, but Frost hired them and it's his offense has been inconsistent garbage all year. 

 
LumberJackSker said:
Maybe you should be on the sideline for every game that way when ever someone make a play they can look to you for the thumbs up or down on whether or not it's an appropriate time to celebrate during a game.
Click to expand...


I'm not looking to be the celebration czar. I was simply pointing out that when your team is getting embarrassed and trailing by three or four scores, it may not be the best idea to do too much flaunting. This is part of what SF was talking about last year when he mentioned that it seemed as though some of the team "looks like they enjoy losing." 

 
TheSker said:
Depends on who "we" is.

The main blame Riley gets is a lack of development of players under his leadership.

Part of Frost's issue is simply from roster flipping and too many of his first recruits not working out.
Click to expand...
Riley’s players are now Frost’s players imo.  He has had them for 2 full off seasons, 2 full fall camps, and 1.75 seasons. At some point we need to start putting some blame on Frost for not developing them, no?

And by “developing”, I don’t mean into all  Americans or even all conference.  But proficient enough to win 6 games.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Red Five said:
Riley’s players are now Frost’s players imo.  He has had them for 2 full off seasons, 2 full fall camps, and 1.75 seasons. At some point we need to start putting some blame on Frost for not developing them, no?

And by “developing”, I don’t mean into all  Americans or even all conference.  But proficient enough to win 6 games.
Click to expand...
Frost has the burden of the blame, yes.  I'm quite certain this season is tearing him up.

Do I blame Frost that the upperclassmen haven't developed well from either a skill or leadership standpoint?  Nah, it's the hand he was dealt.  He wanted to come here and we begged him to do so.

At UCF, he had some all conference talent that got drafted.

Riley left none of that.

I don't blame Frost for that.

You might.......

 
TheSker said:
Do I blame Frost that the upperclassmen haven't developed well from either a skill or leadership standpoint?  Nah, it's the hand he was dealt.  He wanted to come here and we begged him to do so.

...

I don't blame Frost for that.
Click to expand...






Would you credit Frost if he had developed that talent  into higher levels of leadership and skill that were thought impossible from the same players under Riley?

 
Landlord said:
Would you credit Frost if he had developed that talent  into higher levels of leadership and skill that were thought impossible from the same players under Riley?
Click to expand...


I think we gave Frost a lot of credit for turning last year's 0-6 talent into 4-2 talent to end the season.  We all saw the development.  That's where the optimism and pre-season rankings came from. That's why Frost's 4-8 felt different from Riley's 4-8. 

And that's why this year's 4-5 is such a gut punch. 

 
Guy Chamberlin said:
I think we gave Frost a lot of credit for turning last year's 0-6 talent into 4-2 talent to end the season.
Click to expand...




Maybe I'm in the minority but the only credit I gave Frost for that was weathering the storm of inexplicable underperformance and getting the team to the level they should have been performing at all along. 

There was zero legitimate or justifiable reason that team should have been 0-6. I'm not putting the blame on Frost, more just saying that it was a weird inexplicable fluke sort of thing that made no sense. The worst we should have been halfway through last season was 3-3.

By actual quality/ability/potential last year's team was closer to a 7-5 type of squad. Urban Meyer correctly said something along the lines of us being the scariest two win team he'd ever played. This year's team doesn't actually seem like it's underperforming the way last year's did; this year's team just seems completely maxed out at being a sucky team. If we went 7-5 last year and then had this season, it would feel even worse right now. Frost did himself a favor starting out 0-6 because it gave the fanbase a narrative that it wasn't his fault.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top