Weird Time for Christians
- Thread starter Guy Chamberlin
- Start date
Archy1221
Well-known member
From my understanding, the reporting was it was fact there are remains, and that seems to be in dispute. It was also reported those remains have to deal with the Church which also seems to now be disputed.
As far as why the thread? It would seem to be a weird time to have to deal with it and the story involves around Christians. If you feel it’s in the wrong place and find a better thread, move it. It wouldn’t bother me if there is a better fit and it makes others happy.
Guy Chamberlin
Well-known member
Looks like that was a different case at a different school.
The original story was a Catholic school, echoing all the scary s#!t that's gone down at Catholic schools over the centuries, so I guess it's relevant in a Christian thread. But I think you're mostly getting to the media publicity the original claim received, and the relative silence about the lack of ensuing evidence.
As the Chief in the above link says, it would be a shame if this plays into the denialism about the undeniably horrific conditions imposed on the poor and native. A shame some native people's would exploit it, and I'd like a little follow up on the usage and success of "ground penetrating radar" -- which used to tell you where to dig, but was never mistaken for the objects themselves.
Mierin
Donor
I'm so tired of the stupidity.
Louisiana Requires All Public Classrooms to Display Ten Commandments - The New York Times (nytimes.com)
Louisiana Requires All Public Classrooms to Display Ten Commandments - The New York Times (nytimes.com)
Ratt Mhule
Active member
You will really love the fact that OK public schools are now requiring bibles to be present and taught in every classroom! Yay christian nationalism!
Guy Chamberlin
Well-known member
Agnostics don't have much in the way of organization, lobbying, or promotion, but if there's one thing the world needs it's more people willing to admit they don't know s#!t.
TGHusker
Active member
Christianity was never meant to be a 'popular brand'. It isn't to be measure by number but by depth of devotion and character and service towards others. However, if we hide our light or become 'unsalty' the consequence may very well be lower church attendance in the USA. However in other parts of the non-western world the church is growing rapidly. Some of those countries are now sending missionaries to America.
Regardless: Popularity is never the measure of success - regardless of what Joel Osteen would say.
Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. Luke 9:23
“I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.” Galatians 2:20
Speaking to the disciples Jesus says in Matthew 24 :
8All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold
Regardless: Popularity is never the measure of success - regardless of what Joel Osteen would say.
Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. Luke 9:23
“I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.” Galatians 2:20
Speaking to the disciples Jesus says in Matthew 24 :
8All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold
teachercd
Well-known member
Kids are forced to attend service...parents make them go. Kids grow up and stop going...parents stop caring.
Parents get old and find faith again. Mostly because it is something to do and you can go out for coffee with the other old people.
Wash rinse repeat.
Now, add in covid and movie theaters and places of worship have still never fully recovered and never will. The country just lost a ton of old people.
Parents get old and find faith again. Mostly because it is something to do and you can go out for coffee with the other old people.
Wash rinse repeat.
Now, add in covid and movie theaters and places of worship have still never fully recovered and never will. The country just lost a ton of old people.
TGHusker
Active member
Yes - agree Covid has had a big effect. Some churches have not and may not return to pre-covid census.
teachercd
Well-known member
knapplc
Active member
Covid definitely played a factor, but also just as time wears on, science shows us how the universe works, and gods are still AWOL from our reality, people are just going to stop believing in magic beings. Every year that passes is another year further from when Christians claim their god walked the earth. Every year that passes, our depth of understanding of through the scientific method leaves fewer and fewer things needing to be explained by gods.
I think we've reached the tipping point where people are able to reason out why things happen and don't need to believe in gods. Over time, all gods fade into myth. Some just haven't gotten there yet.
I think we've reached the tipping point where people are able to reason out why things happen and don't need to believe in gods. Over time, all gods fade into myth. Some just haven't gotten there yet.
RedDenver
Active member
TGHusker
Active member
Well, there are more than a few scientists who would disagree with the above posts. Either one of these listed below, have greater smarts that the collective smarts of all of us (me included) on HB and we have some real smart people on HB. If one can conclude with 100% certainty that there is no 'god', then that person must have 100% knowledge and by default they have made themselves into a self-made god.
A quick google search can bring up a list of many esteemed scientists who do not believe in myths and who do believe that religious faith and science are not in conflict.
https://www.magiscenter.com/blog/23-famous-scientists-who-believe-in-god#:~:text=In the early history of,had a deep religious faith.
A few quotes from the above link - notice the many Nobel Prize winners - and not for insignificant things but for medicine, physics, chemistry, mathematics, high energy physics, nuclear physics, etc.
1. Professor Christian Anfinsen*
(Nobel Prize for Chemistry, biochemistry of RNA, Johns Hopkins University): "I think that only an idiot can be an atheist! We must admit that there exists an incomprehensible power or force with limitless foresight and knowledge that started the whole universe going in the first place."
2. Professor Werner Archer
(Nobel Prize for Physiology/Medicine, restriction enzymes and molecular genetics, University of Basel): "I do not think our civilization has succeeded in discovering and explaining all the principles acting in the universe. I include the concept of God among these principles. I am happy to accept the concept without trying to define it precisely. I know that the concept of God helped me to master many questions in life; it guides me in critical situations and I see it confirmed in many deep insights into the beauty of the functioning of the living world."
3. Professor D.H.R. Barton***
(Nobel Prize for Chemistry, conformational analysis in organic chemistry, Texas A&M University): "God is Truth. There is no incompatibility between science and religion. Both are seeking the same truth."
4. Professor Ulrich Becker**
(High energy particle physics, MIT): "How can I exist without a creator? I am not aware of any answer ever given."
5. Professor Steven Bernasek
(Solid state chemistry, Princeton University): "I believe in the existence of God. His existence is apparent to me in everything around me, especially in my work as a scientist. On the other hand I cannot prove the existence of God the way I might prove or disprove a (scientific) hypothesis."
9. Professor Manfred Eigen
(Nobel Prize for Chemistry, fast reaction kinetics, Director Max Planck Institute for Biophysical Chemistry, Gottingen): "...religion and science neither exclude nor prove one another."
10. Professor John Fornaess*
(Mathematics, Princeton Univ.): "I believe that there is a God and that God brings structure to the universe at all levels from elementary particles to human being to superclusters of galaxies."
11. Professor P.C.C. Garnham***
(Medical protozoology, University of London): "God originated the universe or universes... At some stage in evolution when proto-humans were sufficiently advanced, God created the human soul... By faith and by appreciation of scientific necessity, God must exist."
12. Professor Conyers Herring*
(Solid state physics, Princeton University): "We live in a hard, real universe, to which we have to adapt. God is a characteristic of that universe—indeed a miraculous characteristic—that makes that adaption possible. Things such as truth, goodness, even happiness, are achievable, by virtue of a force that is always present, in the here and now and available to me personally."
15. Professor Robert Neumann*
(nuclear and isotope chemistry and physics, Princeton University): "The existence of the universe requires me to conclude that God exists."
17. Dr. Arno Penzias*
(Nobel Prize for physics for first observation of the universal microwave background radiation, Vice-President for Research, AT&T Bell Laboratories): "...by looking at the order in the world, we can infer purpose and from purpose we begin to get some knowledge of the Creator, the Planner of all this. This is, then, how I look at God. I look at God through the works of God’s hands and from those works imply intentions. From these intentions, I receive an impression of the Almighty.” (TG: Read Romans 1:19-20 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.)
19. Professor Abdus Salam***
(Nobel Prize for physics (elementary particle theory), Director, International Centre for Theoretical Physics, Trieste): "Now this sense of wonder leads most scientists to a Superior Being—der Alte, the Old One, as Einstein affectionately called the Deity—a Superior Intelligence, the Lord of all Creation and Natural Law."
20. Professor Arthur Schawlow*
(Nobel Prize for Physics [laser physics], Stanford University): "It seems to me that when confronted with the marvels of life one must ask why and not just how. The only possible answers are religious... I find a need for God in the universe and in my own life."
21. Professor Wolfgang Smith
(Philosophy, Mathematics and Physics, Oregon State University. His theoretical work provided the key for solving the re-entry problem in space flight): "If the physics of the last century prompted atheism, the physics of today is inciting at least the most thoughtful of its votaries to re-examine 'the question of God.'"
22. Professor Charles Townes*
(Nobel Prize for physics, development of the MASER/LASER, University of California, Berkeley): "I believe in the concept of God and in His existence."
23. Professor Eugene Wigner*
(Nobel Prize for physics, applications of symmetry principles—group theory to quantum mechanics—Princeton University): "The concept of God is a wonderful one—it also helps us makes decisions in the right direction. We would be very different, I fear, if we did not have that concept."
100 eminent Christian scientists (to believe in God does not make you an uncultivated) OR BELIEVE IN MYTHS
https://www.outono.net/elentir/2017/06/20/100-eminent-christian-scientists-to-believe-in-god-does-not-make-you-an-uncultivated/
and a few more
https://www.magiscenter.com/blog/how-these-scientists-belief-in-god-helped-them-understand-nature
A quick google search can bring up a list of many esteemed scientists who do not believe in myths and who do believe that religious faith and science are not in conflict.
https://www.magiscenter.com/blog/23-famous-scientists-who-believe-in-god#:~:text=In the early history of,had a deep religious faith.
A few quotes from the above link - notice the many Nobel Prize winners - and not for insignificant things but for medicine, physics, chemistry, mathematics, high energy physics, nuclear physics, etc.
1. Professor Christian Anfinsen*
(Nobel Prize for Chemistry, biochemistry of RNA, Johns Hopkins University): "I think that only an idiot can be an atheist! We must admit that there exists an incomprehensible power or force with limitless foresight and knowledge that started the whole universe going in the first place."
2. Professor Werner Archer
(Nobel Prize for Physiology/Medicine, restriction enzymes and molecular genetics, University of Basel): "I do not think our civilization has succeeded in discovering and explaining all the principles acting in the universe. I include the concept of God among these principles. I am happy to accept the concept without trying to define it precisely. I know that the concept of God helped me to master many questions in life; it guides me in critical situations and I see it confirmed in many deep insights into the beauty of the functioning of the living world."
3. Professor D.H.R. Barton***
(Nobel Prize for Chemistry, conformational analysis in organic chemistry, Texas A&M University): "God is Truth. There is no incompatibility between science and religion. Both are seeking the same truth."
4. Professor Ulrich Becker**
(High energy particle physics, MIT): "How can I exist without a creator? I am not aware of any answer ever given."
5. Professor Steven Bernasek
(Solid state chemistry, Princeton University): "I believe in the existence of God. His existence is apparent to me in everything around me, especially in my work as a scientist. On the other hand I cannot prove the existence of God the way I might prove or disprove a (scientific) hypothesis."
9. Professor Manfred Eigen
(Nobel Prize for Chemistry, fast reaction kinetics, Director Max Planck Institute for Biophysical Chemistry, Gottingen): "...religion and science neither exclude nor prove one another."
10. Professor John Fornaess*
(Mathematics, Princeton Univ.): "I believe that there is a God and that God brings structure to the universe at all levels from elementary particles to human being to superclusters of galaxies."
11. Professor P.C.C. Garnham***
(Medical protozoology, University of London): "God originated the universe or universes... At some stage in evolution when proto-humans were sufficiently advanced, God created the human soul... By faith and by appreciation of scientific necessity, God must exist."
12. Professor Conyers Herring*
(Solid state physics, Princeton University): "We live in a hard, real universe, to which we have to adapt. God is a characteristic of that universe—indeed a miraculous characteristic—that makes that adaption possible. Things such as truth, goodness, even happiness, are achievable, by virtue of a force that is always present, in the here and now and available to me personally."
15. Professor Robert Neumann*
(nuclear and isotope chemistry and physics, Princeton University): "The existence of the universe requires me to conclude that God exists."
17. Dr. Arno Penzias*
(Nobel Prize for physics for first observation of the universal microwave background radiation, Vice-President for Research, AT&T Bell Laboratories): "...by looking at the order in the world, we can infer purpose and from purpose we begin to get some knowledge of the Creator, the Planner of all this. This is, then, how I look at God. I look at God through the works of God’s hands and from those works imply intentions. From these intentions, I receive an impression of the Almighty.” (TG: Read Romans 1:19-20 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.)
19. Professor Abdus Salam***
(Nobel Prize for physics (elementary particle theory), Director, International Centre for Theoretical Physics, Trieste): "Now this sense of wonder leads most scientists to a Superior Being—der Alte, the Old One, as Einstein affectionately called the Deity—a Superior Intelligence, the Lord of all Creation and Natural Law."
20. Professor Arthur Schawlow*
(Nobel Prize for Physics [laser physics], Stanford University): "It seems to me that when confronted with the marvels of life one must ask why and not just how. The only possible answers are religious... I find a need for God in the universe and in my own life."
21. Professor Wolfgang Smith
(Philosophy, Mathematics and Physics, Oregon State University. His theoretical work provided the key for solving the re-entry problem in space flight): "If the physics of the last century prompted atheism, the physics of today is inciting at least the most thoughtful of its votaries to re-examine 'the question of God.'"
22. Professor Charles Townes*
(Nobel Prize for physics, development of the MASER/LASER, University of California, Berkeley): "I believe in the concept of God and in His existence."
23. Professor Eugene Wigner*
(Nobel Prize for physics, applications of symmetry principles—group theory to quantum mechanics—Princeton University): "The concept of God is a wonderful one—it also helps us makes decisions in the right direction. We would be very different, I fear, if we did not have that concept."
100 eminent Christian scientists (to believe in God does not make you an uncultivated) OR BELIEVE IN MYTHS
https://www.outono.net/elentir/2017/06/20/100-eminent-christian-scientists-to-believe-in-god-does-not-make-you-an-uncultivated/
and a few more
https://www.magiscenter.com/blog/how-these-scientists-belief-in-god-helped-them-understand-nature