The Democrat Utopia

Archy1221 said:
Quick trivia question.   Do you know what causes their net worth to increase more than their outflows cause it to go down?   Which seems to bother folks like yourself.  
 

Hint…it’s something that your believes tax increases won’t touch and help the poor get their tax break from $0.00 down to extra $0.00
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There ya go again, ignoring the full story and getting stuck on people that pay $0 or next to nothing tax can’t really pay any less. Well no s#!t Sherlock. The way poor people pay is by having safety net programs jerked out from under them. Can’t afford healthcare? Well there’s Medicaid….oops not anymore. And I’ll preemptively address your next goalpost move. Not everyone who has their Medicaid cut is or will be a dirty illegal alien. And just to be clear, I don’t think any illegal resident aliens should be getting any assistance from the government. So yes, please, if any are, get them off the dole now.

Archy1221 said:
Not really.  But unlike you, I don’t see why the government should take more money from someone just to waste it like usual and still cause the debt to go up.   Once the government can show themselves to be actual grown ups with spending, maybe we can have the tax increase talk.   
 

kinda like, I don’t own a gun anymore but I still believe and would advocate for other people to own them because it’s good policy based on our founding.  
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And this conflating wonder. Why do “you people” act like everyone that actually realizes the government provides some needed services must be for wasteful spending? I think every dime of waste should be rooted out and stopped. I don’t think anyone’s taxes should be used to fund wasteful spending. I don’t think we should have a deficit and, unlike your favorite GOP party, I don’t think any more should be added to the deficit. The government should operate on a balanced budget. So spare me the conflating of tax increases on the ultra rich as promoting more wasteful spending. Unfortunately years and years of tax breaks and uncontrolled spending have gotten us where we are.

Why isn’t soc sec solvent? Because the government mismanaged it. They took it from us and now they don’t have enough to pay it out. And they also have negligently neglected to account for shifting demographics. Who’s going to pay for that? We are and our kids are.

Anyway, get off your high horse soapbox, spewing s#!t like you’re the only one that knows what’s up. These people that think the government should waste money, should be irresponsible with it, should be handing it out to non-citizens….those people only exist in your fantasies. Yeah politicians and the government f#&%ed us over. Hello, McFly. Just please for the love of God quit pretending that people who realize a civil society has need of some government services must be for the waste and inefficiency. They aren’t.

 
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BigRedBuster said:
I honestly don't see anyone who previously didn't like Elon, all of a sudden liking him.

I get it.  This is the Republican's attempt to steer the conversation away from how dysfunctional and pathetic their party is right now.
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You will...People love a "bad guy" that turns "good".

 
BigRedBuster said:
I honestly don't see anyone who previously didn't like Elon, all of a sudden liking him.

I get it.  This is the Republican's attempt to steer the conversation away from how dysfunctional and pathetic their party is right now.
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I for one am quite happy that the GOP has dissension within the party in regards to this bill.   It’s the only way to hopefully make changes with it.   Sounds like you would prefer they all vote for it and get it passed instead.   
 

If you are referring to the internet “influencers” fighting on who is right Trump or Elon, count me in the don’t care about their hissy fit group.  

 
Archy1221 said:
I for one am quite happy that the GOP has dissension within the party in regards to this bill.   It’s the only way to hopefully make changes with it.   Sounds like you would prefer they all vote for it and get it passed instead.   
 

If you are referring to the internet “influencers” fighting on who is right Trump or Elon, count me in the don’t care about their hissy fit group.  
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Nope...don't like the bill at all.  But, just because all of a sudden Elon is against it...that doesn't make him a good guy that I support.  He's still a disgusting idiot.

 
BigRedBuster said:
Nope...don't like the bill at all.  But, just because all of a sudden Elon is against it...that doesn't make him a good guy that I support.  He's still a disgusting idiot.
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What specific items don’t you like about the bill?   Anything you do like in it? 

 
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Archy1221 said:
What specific items don’t you like about the bill?   Anything you do like in it? 
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The biggest glaring point is how much it adds to the deficit.  And...this is from the "conservative" party.  Which is a joke.  Then, I have posted quite a few things in it that I don't like.....You would have to go back and review those.

In the end, this isn't a "conservative" bill that we should expect from a party that claims they are trying to make government work better for the people.  It's a pathetic wish list from Trump and Project 2025.  Which....neither of those should be involved with anything in our government.

 
Archy1221 said:
One other interesting concept is the overall increase in tax dollars coming into the treasury in short order after tax breaks allow more money floating into the system, generating more income tax revenue for big daddy government.   Free tip for the How do taxes even work? Crowd.   Enjoy. 
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That's another interesting take. On the one hand, 40 years of tax breaks for the wealthy have floated money into a system that those same wealthy have used to funnel that same money back to themselves as opposed to investing it in U.S. infrastructure and employees. Those are also the folks most adept at hiding income and sheltering wealth from big daddy government. You still seem to be clinging to the disproven "a rising tide lifts all ships at sea" bromide, but I will try to research your "less taxes create more tax revenue" theory.

On the other hand, this latest tax break for the wealthy comes with a massive cut in federal programs. Folks with compassion may feel bad about the suffering it will cause millions of Americans, but even the bean counters will recognize the unintended consequences of THAT money being pulled out of a system that feeds the larger economy in myriad ways. 

But the real kicker is that the administration and an increasingly conflicted Congress is prepared to add trillions of dollars to the deficit in the process. i.e. the antithesis of its purported agenda.

You've presented yourself as a traditional conservative. The honest traditional conservatives are generally appalled by Trump's big beautiful bill. This is your moment to stand up, Archy. Don't lecture us about how taxes don't work. Call your Republican representatives and tell them they need to behave like honest conservatives.  

 
Guy Chamberlin said:
On the other hand, this latest tax break for the wealthy comes with a massive cut in federal programs.
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Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t that tax provision just extending the current tax code, but adding in SALT deductions which as you accurately state tends to help the wealthy much much more than middle class and upper middle class citizens?  
 

If that’s the case, then isn’t it a tax break for everyone who pays taxes like it was before?   I know my taxes went down and I’m no rich wealthy billionaire.  

 
Guy Chamberlin said:
You've presented yourself as a traditional conservative. The honest traditional conservatives are generally appalled by Trump's big beautiful bill. This is your moment to stand up, Archy.
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Funny story… I’ve already stood up and have a problem with raising the debt with this bill👍.  I prefer Elons take over Trump’s take.   Even said so to Buster which I know you saw 

 
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