Is Frazier in the top 2???

[husker rob]

I dont know if he will be #2 or #1 but i guarentee that Archie Griffin will be one of the two, and should be #1. he is the only player to ever win the Heisman twice.

i cannot believe that no one else on this board of football smart people even mentioned him?

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that no one is picking him to grab one of the top two spots because he's already on there. But, who knows, if he won the Heisman twice, maybe he can hold two ranks on the list.

damn, in my haste when looking at the list i didnt see him at #21, which is way to low, but anyway

thanks for pointing it out that he was already there

 

[knapplc]

This is gonna sound silly, but what about Marcus Allen, or as much as I hate to admit it, Billy Sims...

Billy Sims isn't silly at all. He was a damned good player. I was pretty young when he was playing at Oklahoma and I still remember getting this sick feeling in my stomach whenever they handed him the ball.

_________________________

Someone said earlier that Vince Young could/should be higher on the list than Tommie Frazier because he could pass, but they're apparently forgetting the option-pass to the tight end. I can't tell you how many times Tommie ran that option, stopped behind the impenetrable wall of his O-Line, then calmly threw a 20-yard pass to a tight end alone in the secondary. The TE was alone because they HAD TO bring the safety up to help stop the option, and it was an absolutely beautiful play.

Nobody is ever going to mistake Tommie Frazier for a passing QB, but he most certainly could pass when he needed to, and did so with devestating results.

 

[junior4949]

how do you have vince young on that list and not tommie frazier? vince young, as good as he was, only won one national title, and no heisman trophy. starting since he was a true freshman, tommie frazier only lost three games and won two national titles! vince young lost twice to oklahoma!

i'm calling it bs, if frazier isn't number 1! he's number one, and there's no comparison.

First of all, Vince Young definitely does deserve to be in the top 10. He put up significantly better numbers than Frazier did (season numbers, not career). Also, national titles are NOT significant in determining the best PLAYER. Thirdly, Frazier never won a Heisman trophy either. Vince Young was even more vital to his team than Frazier was, Vince WAS that team. He, almost by himself, raised that team out of the ashes so many times to win against very good opponents.

People like to attribute team success to the worth of a player, which is ridiculous. I'm not saying it's nonsense because it's not accurate, because a lot of the time a team can be successful because of one single player, but when the team doesn't win or if they only get x number of championships, who says it is because one person wasn't good enough?

I am upset that Frazier won't be on the list just like everyone else is, but Young deserves it more than Frazier does, in my as-objective-as-possible opinion.

I laugh everytime someone argues that Frazier won 2 NC's. How many of those games exactly did Frazier even play in in 1994? Not many. The #2 and #3 QB's carried us into the title game which begs the question: how vital was he really on the 1994 NC team? Not very, IMO. In 1995, we could have had a child back there playing QB because all they had to do was take the snap from center and hand off. Hell, we probably could have direct snapped it and completely bypassed the QB in 1995. So, he wasn't vital to that NC either. Look at it like this. If Frazier wasn't there which he for the most part wasn't in 1994, would we still have won the NC in 94 and 95? I say we would. If Vince Young isn't there for Texas, do they win the NC? I say no. They've never really fully recovered from his absence yet. We continued to roll long after Frazier. We were one game away in 96 from playing for a NC, and we won it in 97. We ended up 2nd in 99 and played for one in 01.

I highly doubt he makes the list because 1) he didn't win the Heisman. The Heisman voters never in his 4 year career here at NU thought he was even the best player of the year. What makes you think he'll make #1 or #2 best college football player ever when he was never even voted best player of any particular year? For all we know Tebo may be in there as #1 or #2. I mean he is the first QB in the history of D1 to throw for 20 or more TD's and run for 20 or more TD's. Tommie Frazier was a great player for Nebraska, but lets not let our bias make him better than he actually was.

 

[seed60]

Frazier won two national championships. During one of his season's, he was one of the most explosive and most important players on the most dominant team in college football history.

Dude is #1 whether ESPN says so or not.

:yeah :bonez

 

[knapplc]

Heisman Schmiesman! Who freaking cares who won the Heisman freaking trophy?!?!?

Let's put it this way - Eric Crouch won the Heisman and he's not even being mentioned in this conversation.

Please, let's stop validating Vince Young over Tommie Frazier because of the Heisman, K?

 

[Glendower]

I dont know if he will be #2 or #1 but i guarentee that Archie Griffin will be one of the two, and should be #1. he is the only player to ever win the Heisman twice.

i cannot believe that no one else on this board of football smart people even mentioned him?

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that no one is picking him to grab one of the top two spots because he's already on there. But, who knows, if he won the Heisman twice, maybe he can hold two ranks on the list.

damn, in my haste when looking at the list i didnt see him at #21, which is way to low, but anyway

thanks for pointing it out that he was already there

I'm surprised he isn't higher, too. There is a lot of recency bias apparent in that list (and offense bias!).

 

[indianahusker]

The list is a freaking joke. Young was good...but he didn't even win the Heisman. Neither did Frazier, but he did win 2 NC's while Young only won one. Also, there are some players in the bottom 15 that should have been in the top 10. A freaking joke.

Also, has anyone listened to ESPN Radio lately? When Mushmouth talks about the '84 Orange Bowl? First he says Miami was up 17-0 at the half. Then he says Miami was the defending Nat'l Champs. Then he finally gives some true info on the tipped 2-pointer and the Fublerooski.

I like ESPN most of the time, but they get their info wrong too many times...just like in the "greatest coach of all time poll"...they screwed up Oz's stats beyond recognition.

They don't double check their info or something like that before saying or posting things waaaaaaay too often. I always take what they say with a grain of salt.

 

[junior4949]

Heisman Schmiesman! Who freaking cares who won the Heisman freaking trophy?!?!?

Let's put it this way - Eric Crouch won the Heisman and he's not even being mentioned in this conversation.

Please, let's stop validating Vince Young over Tommie Frazier because of the Heisman, K?

Vince Young didn't win the Heisman either. My point is that if you take Young off the Texas team, they don't win the NC. If you take Frazier off the 94 and 95 team, I think they still win the NC. Never in Frazier's career did he have to put the entire offense on his back and carry the team like Young did. If Young would have missed 3/4ths of the season in 2005, I don't think they even make the NC game like Frazier did in 94.

 

[knapplc]

Vince Young didn't win the Heisman either. My point is that if you take Young off the Texas team, they don't win the NC. If you take Frazier off the 94 and 95 team, I think they still win the NC. Never in Frazier's career did he have to put the entire offense on his back and carry the team like Young did. If Young would have missed 3/4ths of the season in 2005, I don't think they even make the NC game like Frazier did in 94.

I know VY didn't win the Heisman, but it's being mentioned here as a basis for worth, and I'm saying that if that's true, Crouch would be in this conversation. He isn't and he won it, and Frazier was twice the QB Crouch was.

I also think you're overly penalizing Tommie for having a good team around him. I agree that if you take Vince off that team there's no way Texas wins that title, but just because Frazier played with perhaps the greatest team EVER, that's not a knock against him. He was one of the primary reasons that was one of the greatest teams ever. :thumbs

 

[junior4949]

Vince Young didn't win the Heisman either. My point is that if you take Young off the Texas team, they don't win the NC. If you take Frazier off the 94 and 95 team, I think they still win the NC. Never in Frazier's career did he have to put the entire offense on his back and carry the team like Young did. If Young would have missed 3/4ths of the season in 2005, I don't think they even make the NC game like Frazier did in 94.

I know VY didn't win the Heisman, but it's being mentioned here as a basis for worth, and I'm saying that if that's true, Crouch would be in this conversation. He isn't and he won it, and Frazier was twice the QB Crouch was.

I also think you're overly penalizing Tommie for having a good team around him. I agree that if you take Vince off that team there's no way Texas wins that title, but just because Frazier played with perhaps the greatest team EVER, that's not a knock against him. He was one of the primary reasons that was one of the greatest teams ever. :thumbs

If you take Frazier off those 2 teams which he was for the most part in 94, they are still 2 of the best teams ever. IMO, the best players are those that carry their entire team on their back to great things. Look at Dixon at Oregon this year. When he's healthy, they rarely lose. With him hurt and on the bench, they didn't win. Like it was stated by someone else, we rarely ever lost even when Frazier was not playing. We had some great teams then. However, I don't think this automatically makes Frazier one of the best college football players ever. We won in those years with him and we won in those years without him. He had some great games, but I just don't think he was one of the best college football players ever.

 

[huskerbatt52]

Heisman Schmiesman! Who freaking cares who won the Heisman freaking trophy?!?!?

Let's put it this way - Eric Crouch won the Heisman and he's not even being mentioned in this conversation.

Please, let's stop validating Vince Young over Tommie Frazier because of the Heisman, K?

Um, Vince Young never won a Heisman.

 

[knapplc]

Heisman Schmiesman! Who freaking cares who won the Heisman freaking trophy?!?!?

Let's put it this way - Eric Crouch won the Heisman and he's not even being mentioned in this conversation.

Please, let's stop validating Vince Young over Tommie Frazier because of the Heisman, K?

Um, Vince Young never won a Heisman.

I know. It was poorly worded. My point was about Crouch.

 

[knapplc]

If you take Frazier off those 2 teams which he was for the most part in 94, they are still 2 of the best teams ever. IMO, the best players are those that carry their entire team on their back to great things. Look at Dixon at Oregon this year. When he's healthy, they rarely lose. With him hurt and on the bench, they didn't win. Like it was stated by someone else, we rarely ever lost even when Frazier was not playing. We had some great teams then. However, I don't think this automatically makes Frazier one of the best college football players ever. We won in those years with him and we won in those years without him. He had some great games, but I just don't think he was one of the best college football players ever.

Well, you're just penalizing him because he was on a good team that way, and I don't see the logic in that. Brook Berringer was very good as well, so it's not like we had a huge hole behind Frazier.

 

[CelticRover20]

Maybe I missed it, but what about Mike Rozier? Not growing up in Nebraska, I have to go on what my wife, a Lincoln native has told me and she described an offense that scored like every thirty seconds or so. My guess is, however, that numbers 1 and 2 are Archie Griffin and Red Grange, but not necessarily in that order.

 

[junior4949]

If you take Frazier off those 2 teams which he was for the most part in 94, they are still 2 of the best teams ever. IMO, the best players are those that carry their entire team on their back to great things. Look at Dixon at Oregon this year. When he's healthy, they rarely lose. With him hurt and on the bench, they didn't win. Like it was stated by someone else, we rarely ever lost even when Frazier was not playing. We had some great teams then. However, I don't think this automatically makes Frazier one of the best college football players ever. We won in those years with him and we won in those years without him. He had some great games, but I just don't think he was one of the best college football players ever.

Well, you're just penalizing him because he was on a good team that way, and I don't see the logic in that. Brook Berringer was very good as well, so it's not like we had a huge hole behind Frazier.

Matt Turman who I would not consider a Husker great came in and beat a ranked KState team. The entire team was good from the offense to the defense. We could have had a bobblehead doll back there handing the ball off and still beat people soundly. He was a great player for Nebraska, but he wasn't one of college football's best players. The team around him was outstanding. Look at his stats. Other than his winning percentage, what stat jumps out at you and implies he was the one of the best college football players ever?