Not So Big 8

Guy Chamberlin

Guy Chamberlin

Heisman Trophy Winner
Does anyone remember a time when the winner of the NU-OU game wasn't ranked in the Top 25?

Or when there was a lone representative from the old Big 8 in the Top 25 and they only ranked 17?

 
Welcome to legislated parity. The NCAA donned their Robin Hood hat, stole from the rich and gave to the poor. Now we have a complete mess of a rankings system and annual confusion over who belongs in the MNC.

When we do finally end up in a playoff system - and you can bet your last dollar we will - they'll trace the demise of the bowl system as we know it to the 85-scholarship limit that went into full effect in 1994. We're not even four recruiting cycles away from that ruling and we've effectively neutered several of the pillars of college football, teams like Notre Dame, Michigan, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Penn State, etc, who used to be able to weather coaching storms because of the depth they built into their programs.

College football is not better off with a dominant Boise State and a weak Notre Dame. Boise State and the WAC are better off, but the sport is less healthy as a whole.

 
knapplc said:
Welcome to legislated parity. The NCAA donned their Robin Hood hat, stole from the rich and gave to the poor. Now we have a complete mess of a rankings system and annual confusion over who belongs in the MNC.

When we do finally end up in a playoff system - and you can bet your last dollar we will - they'll trace the demise of the bowl system as we know it to the 85-scholarship limit that went into full effect in 1994. We're not even four recruiting cycles away from that ruling and we've effectively neutered several of the pillars of college football, teams like Notre Dame, Michigan, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Penn State, etc, who used to be able to weather coaching storms because of the depth they built into their programs.

College football is not better off with a dominant Boise State and a weak Notre Dame. Boise State and the WAC are better off, but the sport is less healthy as a whole.
Click to expand...
POTY?

At the very least, a Nobel Prize.

 
knapplc said:
Welcome to legislated parity. The NCAA donned their Robin Hood hat, stole from the rich and gave to the poor. Now we have a complete mess of a rankings system and annual confusion over who belongs in the MNC.

When we do finally end up in a playoff system - and you can bet your last dollar we will - they'll trace the demise of the bowl system as we know it to the 85-scholarship limit that went into full effect in 1994. We're not even four recruiting cycles away from that ruling and we've effectively neutered several of the pillars of college football, teams like Notre Dame, Michigan, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Penn State, etc, who used to be able to weather coaching storms because of the depth they built into their programs.

College football is not better off with a dominant Boise State and a weak Notre Dame. Boise State and the WAC are better off, but the sport is less healthy as a whole.
Click to expand...
Dang dude, quit making all of us look bad with these great posts! :)

 
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knapplc said:
Welcome to legislated parity. The NCAA donned their Robin Hood hat, stole from the rich and gave to the poor. Now we have a complete mess of a rankings system and annual confusion over who belongs in the MNC.

When we do finally end up in a playoff system - and you can bet your last dollar we will - they'll trace the demise of the bowl system as we know it to the 85-scholarship limit that went into full effect in 1994. We're not even four recruiting cycles away from that ruling and we've effectively neutered several of the pillars of college football, teams like Notre Dame, Michigan, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Penn State, etc, who used to be able to weather coaching storms because of the depth they built into their programs.

College football is not better off with a dominant Boise State and a weak Notre Dame. Boise State and the WAC are better off, but the sport is less healthy as a whole.
Click to expand...
I wholeheartedly and respectfuly disagree. College football continues to grow leaps and bounds and my understanding is that it now only trails the NFL in viewership and revenue. The fact that you now have a Boise State and a TCU to throw into the mix only brings more intrigue into an already fascinating sport. You state that a playoff system is right around the corner, god I hope you are right, but I believe the NCAA is almost better off with us throwing our little tantrums regarding how bad the BCS is because it continues to bring attention to almost every game played. The college basketball tournanment is great stuff but it makes a lot of regular season games irrelevant, the BCS makes regular season football games into mini-Super Bowls. People are still pissed off today by LSU's non-interception last Saturday, no one gives two shakes to a bad call in baseball or basketball. College Football is the prince of sports with the NFL its king.

 
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BeachBuffs said:
knapplc said:
Welcome to legislated parity. The NCAA donned their Robin Hood hat, stole from the rich and gave to the poor. Now we have a complete mess of a rankings system and annual confusion over who belongs in the MNC.

When we do finally end up in a playoff system - and you can bet your last dollar we will - they'll trace the demise of the bowl system as we know it to the 85-scholarship limit that went into full effect in 1994. We're not even four recruiting cycles away from that ruling and we've effectively neutered several of the pillars of college football, teams like Notre Dame, Michigan, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Penn State, etc, who used to be able to weather coaching storms because of the depth they built into their programs.

College football is not better off with a dominant Boise State and a weak Notre Dame. Boise State and the WAC are better off, but the sport is less healthy as a whole.
Click to expand...
I wholeheartedly and respectfuly disagree. College football continues to grow leaps and bounds and my understanding is that it now only trails the NFL in viewership and revenue. The fact that you now have a Boise State and a TCU to throw into the mix only brings more intrigue into an already fascinating sport. You state that a playoff system is right around the corner, god I hope you are right, but I believe the NCAA is almost better off with us throwing our little tantrums regarding how bad the BCS is because it continues to bring attention to almost every game played. The college basketball tournanment is great stuff but it makes a lot of regular season games irrelevant, the BCS makes regular season football games into mini-Super Bowls. People are still pissed off today by LSU's non-interception last Saturday, no one gives two shakes to a bad call in baseball or basketball. College Football is the prince of sports with the NFL its king.
Click to expand...
I don't believe you are understanding what he is saying, but knapplc can correct me if I'm wrong.

Knapplc isn't talking about the playoff system specifically, but more or less the issues that have resulted from scholarship limits and the BCS.

Most people want college football powers to stay college football powers, and it shows in the media and in other ways. Nobody cares if Boise State is making it's nice little run in the WAC. Everybody cares about what godly things Tim Tebow is doing this week, and whether or not Florida or Alabama will face Texas in the BCS MNC.

Nobody really wants TCU to squirt in there, especially television, because people would rather watch two powerhouse programs in Texas and Florida in the big game rather than TCU and Cincinnati, or something equally as low key.

You speak of viewership and revenues, but I will guarantee you this: if a MNC game between Cinci and TCU occurred but there was also a Lakers vs. Cavs game on T.V. the same night, you might see some of the lowest MNC T.V. ratings of all time. Hell, you wouldn't even need a Lakers v. Cavs game for it to get the lowest ratings. People want the big boys.

 
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I agree with BeachBuffs. I'd rather watch college football any day of the week with the scholly limits than watch a pro baseball game with how the Yankees buy their crowns. It's fun to see a South Florida pop up who didn't even have a football program a decade or so ago. I also believe a playoff is really the only way to go.

 
The whole system is backwards right now. If you want to have a beauty contest with polls, you need to have beautiful contestants. There used to be beautiful contestants every year, back when the big programs were allowed to act like big programs. Now, not so much. There are maybe 3 legit contenders and then a huge middle class of inconsistent teams who simply lack the depth it takes to perform well every week.

If they want to have "parity," they need a playoff. Otherwise, get rid of this ridiculous scholarship rule.

 
BeachBuffs said:
knapplc said:
Welcome to legislated parity. The NCAA donned their Robin Hood hat, stole from the rich and gave to the poor. Now we have a complete mess of a rankings system and annual confusion over who belongs in the MNC.

When we do finally end up in a playoff system - and you can bet your last dollar we will - they'll trace the demise of the bowl system as we know it to the 85-scholarship limit that went into full effect in 1994. We're not even four recruiting cycles away from that ruling and we've effectively neutered several of the pillars of college football, teams like Notre Dame, Michigan, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Penn State, etc, who used to be able to weather coaching storms because of the depth they built into their programs.

College football is not better off with a dominant Boise State and a weak Notre Dame. Boise State and the WAC are better off, but the sport is less healthy as a whole.
Click to expand...
I wholeheartedly and respectfuly disagree. College football continues to grow leaps and bounds and my understanding is that it now only trails the NFL in viewership and revenue. The fact that you now have a Boise State and a TCU to throw into the mix only brings more intrigue into an already fascinating sport. You state that a playoff system is right around the corner, god I hope you are right, but I believe the NCAA is almost better off with us throwing our little tantrums regarding how bad the BCS is because it continues to bring attention to almost every game played. The college basketball tournanment is great stuff but it makes a lot of regular season games irrelevant, the BCS makes regular season football games into mini-Super Bowls. People are still pissed off today by LSU's non-interception last Saturday, no one gives two shakes to a bad call in baseball or basketball. College Football is the prince of sports with the NFL its king.
Click to expand...
You and Enhance are both right, I think, but there's a lot more to it. We're just scraping the surface.

I agree that revenues are up, and that viewership is up. I like the prince/king analogy (although I'm biased toward College football, I recognize the supremacy of the NFL).

The problem I see is this - traditional powers like Ohio State and Michigan have these crazy-huge fan bases, people who are born and bred fans, and remain fans until they die. These are the pillars of college football. Teams like TCU and Boise St. have very small comparable fan bases, but (currently) a lot of bandwagon fans. These fans aren't in it for the long haul, they're fans while the team is winning.

UConn is a great example of this. They set attendance records in 2005 and carried some momentum through the 2007 season when they won 9 games and their bowl game. Since then attendance has slumped and is falling off the map in 2009 as their team has sunk back into mediocrity.

 
College football is not better off with a dominant Boise State and a weak Notre Dame. Boise State and the WAC are better off, but the sport is less healthy as a whole.
Click to expand...
I believed this to be your thesis sentence of your original post and I would argue that college football is indeed better off with schools like a Boise or TCU getting into the mix because it brings in a breath of fresh air. Baseball is boring because we know the Yankees and the Red Sox are going to outspend 2-3 teams combined to achieve their results. If in college football just a few schools could afford to stockpile talent at the expense of smaller schools college football would not grow. Nebraska fans routinely claim to be the best and most rabid fans in the sport, fine, I will accept that and go further and state that as a result of that fan base it will not shrink when things go bad. However when a small program like a Boise or a TCU can jump up and beat a school like an OU with trick plays in a BCS game it brings new excitement and attention to the sport. The Notre Dames and Nebraskas won't stay down forever. Texas in the 80's and 90's wasn't the Texas of today. Florida before Spurrier was a great place to vaction and home to Dan Marino and Don Shula. When Woody left OSU they were nothing for 20 years. Before Saban Alabama fans have been feeding off the memory of a dead bear. All programs have ups and downs, 15 years ago did anyone conceive that Bobby Bowden might one day really be in the hot seat because his team is mediocre at best? It is these ups and downs, peaks and valleys that makes college footbal exciting. It is the Appalachian States upsets of the Michigans of the world such and exciting and compelling sport to watch. The only people that want to see Nebraska pay for a BCS title every year are people that root for Nebraska, will it be compelling should Nebraska get to play for a BCS title again one day, absolutely because of its rich history, would a BCS title game between Texas and TCU be compelling, absolutely. This is a result of the scholarship limitations and the goal of achieving some sort of parity among universities. This gave a KSU the chance to compete, this gave KU the chance to win a BCS bowl. This gives the Boise States and the TCU's of the world the chance to make college football such an exciting sport.

 
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There have been scholarship limits for decades. I don't think most people know this. When Switzer and Osborne were dominating the Big 8, there was a 105 scholarship limit and then it was cut to 95 starting in 1978. And that cut didn't stop us from winning over 100 games and being one of the dominant programs of the '80s. And further cuts to 92 and then 88 scholarships in the early '90s didn't stop us from one of the most impressive runs in college football history from 93-97. I'm not denying that the gradual cut to 85 has had an effect, but there is a lot more going on that contributes to parity in college football.

 
I'd rather see many good teams, rather than a few good teams and a lot of sh**ty ones.

Yea, the big time schools aren't dominating year in and year out anymore, but like someone said, it's like baseball where you have the Yankees running the table every freakign year. That's boring. Parity is more of a good thing than bad thing

And a playoff system won't fix anything, imo. Fix the ranking system first

 
The thing is with the scholarship limit is it just plain sucks...why would there be a limit on how many people can get their schooling paid for and play football? They are taking scholarships away from these guys who can better their lives and get a quality education. Good call NCAA, you socialist bunch of fairies. Next thing the NCAA is going to do is say no tackling/touching the QB ever. Sorry just a little rant and it won't get that bad, but it pisses me off that they would take away some kids scholarship to better his life just to even out the competition.

 
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