Ex-Gator mentor likes NU's chances in Big Ten race

[Hujan]

Zoogies, thank you for being the voice of reason. You hit the nail on the head.

Is there anyone on the planet who doesn't think that we'd smoke some fools if Taylor played like the Taylor we saw against K State on national TV?

Problem is, not all defenses are like K State's, and that Taylor doesn't show up every time we play.

 

[Hercules]

You Martinez fanboys are zealots. I mean, real zealots. If anyone doesn't declare him God's Gift, you swarm and attack like zombies.

Here is Meyer's quote:

“It's right there. The two leagues are very comparable. I haven't watched them much, but last year I came home and watched them against Kansas State. That quarterback, (Taylor) Martinez, was one of the best athletes I've ever seen play. He dominated that game. I was shocked that he had a few games where he didn't play as well. I think if he plays like that, they have a great chance of winning the Big Ten.”
Q: What else do you see in Martinez's game that's impressive? What does he need to work on?

UM: “I haven't seen enough of him to make an educated evaluation. All I know is what I saw the times I did see him. I'd love to coach him. I can tell you that. He's a dynamic athlete with the ball in his hands, and that's the kind of guys that I like.”

What you have is basically Meyer saying he watched us play K State and witnessed one of the best performances by a quarterback he's ever seen. We can all agree with that. Unfortunately, that wasn't always the story with Martinez, was it? He blew a$$ against SDSU, Texas, and then ever single game after his injury.

If Meyer had bothered to sit down and watch the SDSU or Texas game, you think he'd feel the same way? Maybe if he'd bothered to watch those games he wouldn't be shocked when Martinez "had a few games where he didn't play as well."

This is what you Martinez nuts will never get: Yes the kid had some sensational plays last year, but he also had some unbelievably bad games. He was as bad against SDSU and Texas as he was good against K State and Okie State. When you average "terrible" with "sensational," what do you get?

No, really go ahead and take a few minutes to think it through.

Everybody has bad games. Urban Meyer's job as a coach is to look at bad games, figure out what needs to be fixed, and then help the kid fix it. But seeing one of Taylor's lesser performances isn't going to change Urban's mind concerning the kind of performance he had against Kansas State or Oklahoma State. He's going to take the bad with the good.

The problem on this board is that the discussion has gotten so polarized that the middle ground has basically disappeared. The Carnes fans can't admit that Taylor was unbelievably brilliant in several games last year, against BCS conference competition. Rather than come to the rather obvious and uncontroversial conclusion that his season tanked after and because of his injuries, they maintain that it was the fact we started playing good defenses (like the University of Kansas?). Furthermore, we know virtually nothing about Carnes' game, and any fan who says otherwise is simply delusional.

On the other hand, the Martinez fans think he's an absolute lock to be the starting QB and that it's completely ridiculous to even suggest that Carnes is a potential starter. However, Martinez has had some injury problems, he hasn't shown he can be a great QB without his top speed, and he has been ripped apart by the fans and the media over the past year, which would take a pretty big toll on most kids his age. He's not a lock for the job, and he will have to win it back.

Fact: Carnes looked better in the spring game than Martinez did

Fact: From a statistical standpoint, Taylor Martinez had inarguably the best freshman year of any QB ever to play at the University of Nebraska (including Tommie Frazier, Brook Berringer, Turner Gill, Scott Frost, and Eric Crouch).

Fact: Carnes fits the offense, and has demonstrated better passing mechanics than Martinez

Fact: Martinez, when healthy, is more explosive on the ground, and has a year of experience

Fact: Carnes has good high school tape, and was the scout team MVP (I think that's worthless, but I threw it in there for Hujan)

Fact: Martinez has demonstrated that he can be an effective QB at the Division 1A level.

As far as I can tell, people on this board seem to be leaning one way the other more or less because of the following reasons:

1. Their taste or lack thereof for running QBs

2. Their personal feelings regarding Martinez

Here's what I think: Carnes has a lot of potential and can be a very good player, and I think he might be better than a 90% healthy Martinez. But I think that Martinez at 100% was one of the most explosive, exciting players I've ever watched, and if he gets back to that kind of health, I want to see what he can do as a sophomore. He was inconsistent, but I'm completely willing to attribute that to his youth (imagine you're a freshman QB, and the first defense you see with top 25 speed is Texas, filled with the best athletes in the country, in Nebraska's biggest game since the last national championship bout... There's going to be a learning curve). It's pretty rare for a freshman QB to make as much noise as he did, whether it was against good defenses or not, and he did learn and improve from each bad game that he had last year (before his injuries).

I'm looking forward to the fall.

 

[zoogs]

The Carnes fans can't admit that Taylor was unbelievably brilliant in several games last year, against BCS conference competition. Rather than come to the rather obvious and uncontroversial conclusion that his season tanked after and because of his injuries, they maintain that it was the fact we started playing good defenses (like the University of Kansas?).

You're right, this discussion is pretty polarized. But I'm a Carnes fan and I think I've been on the total opposite side of this.

More than once I've pulled up the defensive rankings of our conference opponents post-injury and shown that, despite playing worse defenses post-injury, in both the total and scoring defense aspects, we performed worse. It is not at all that we hit a wall against better defenses, and it is everything to do with how we dealt with an injured Taylor.

But in that discussion, I was at odds with the Martinez fans rather than on their side. You know why? I was defending Watson

Two more things...I think both Taylor and Carnes are running QBs, so this should not be a "running QB vs pocket passer" debate anymore, unless Carnes is the latest in a line of progressively faster QBs we've had that are going to be labeled as snail's-pace-slow. And nobody just decided to up and hate Taylor, but that doesn't mean his game is beyond the same treatment to fan opinion as anyone else.

 

[Blaze1up]

I get the feeling, Urban may be coming out of retirement soon...

OSU is calling

 

[Hercules]

I think if you're not enthused with Taylor's skillset, that's partially a reflection of your offensive philosophy. I think that people who tend to favor running QBs look at these two guys and say - gotta be Martinez, look at him go! I think that people who favor pocket passers look at Carnes' mechanics and say - gotta be Carnes, he's more of a QB!

I think throughout the discussion, people have to weigh each players' skillset and then decide which they like more and then make an argument for that guy. But people aren't making honest arguments anymore, they're just entrenched into their own viewpoint (except for you zoogies, of course, because you're exceptional in many ways )

Whether "events" or "performances," or "rumors," or whatever the heck it was that rubbed people the wrong way about Taylor, they still got rubbed the wrong way, and their opinion is still informed by their personal feelings.

 

[knapplc]

Part Two of McKewon's interview with Urban Meyer unloads a great tidbit that confirms what most of us thought about Pederson's 2003 termination of Frank Solich and why he couldn't lure Meyer - or anyone else - here:

Q: One last Nebraska question — in late 2003, NU fired its coach, Frank Solich. You were coaching at Utah. Was there any part of you that perhaps thought about looking at the job?
UM: “We actually were contacted by a third party. Not directly. I remember thinking about it. I had such great respect for Solich — he's an Ohio guy who's a good friend of mine — and I didn't agree with everything that went down. He won 10 games that year, right? That was alarming to me. I'm a coach, and whenever I see that happening to a coach, I think there's got to be something behind Door No. 1 to fire him after he won 10 games. I remember having great respect for the school but being concerned about what happened — and why it happened. If 10 games isn't good enough, I'm not sure what is.”

So much to chew on there. First, it's the least shocking thing in the world to see that the reason Meyer, and probably every other decent coach we talked to, didn't come to Nebraska: You don't fire a coach who won 10 (actually nine) games and expect members of the coaching fraternity to want to work for you. We've been saying this for years, and Meyer just confirmed it.

Another gem Meyer lets drop: The indirect contact providing plausible deniability. While commonly held to be the way things work, it's nice to see Meyer come out and say it in a published interview. So often we see coaches deny that they've been approached by a school, or the school deny they've talked to a coach, when all the while it's just parsing words. Everything is done via representatives and folks connected to the coach or the school. It's semantics, but it helps keep things (somewhat) quiet.

This was a pretty darned good interview for Sam and the OWH. They hit a home run hiring McKewon, and while you've got to feel bad for the Independent, everyone kinda knew he wasn't going to stay there very long.

 

[T_O_Bull]

Good to see Meyer talk up TO cuz he obviously deserves it. Cant wait to see what he has to say about the other guys, especially Carnes.

:yeah

As for the daughter I'm sure she is part of a ploy to squeeze more $$ out of OSU if they call. Besides after living in Utah and Florida a trip to Ohio is a step down no matter the $.

Well considering he is from Ohio, not sure that holds water, as for living in Utah or Florida, no thanks on either one. I'm not exactly partial to living in Ohio, but there's no chance I would want to live in either of those states. However, I do not think he is going to return to tOSU.

Obviously you have nerer been to Palm Beach.

T_O_B

:corndance :corndance :corndance

 

[Ratt Mhule]

I think if you're not enthused with Taylor's skillset, that's partially a reflection of your offensive philosophy. I think that people who tend to favor running QBs look at these two guys and say - gotta be Martinez, look at him go! I think that people who favor pocket passers look at Carnes' mechanics and say - gotta be Carnes, he's more of a QB!

My ideal QB would be a passing QB who can run if needed. Not just specifically a running QB who can't pass very well or a passing QB who can't run. It SEEMS like Carnes is more of that kind of QB than Taylor. Taylor is a run first QB who struggles passing. From watching Carnes HS tapes, it seems like hes a pass first, but has the ability to run if he has to.

I guess a good example of a good college QB I'd like to have for this team would be Blaine Gabbert (can't believe I said that). The guy had a cannon, looked to pass first and had the speed to run if necessary. Just imagine if we'd had him the last couple years...

 

[The Dude]

I don't have an ideal QB type. Tommie Frazier is my favorite QB of all time, so I gues that would be my ideal QB type. I don't care how you produce, as long as you produce. The idea that Taylor isn't a QB is just factually incorrect.

 

[The Dude]

"That quarterback, (Taylor) Martinez, was one of the best athletes I've ever seen play"

"I would love the chance to coach him"

Yet alot of guys on here dont think he should be starting.....LOL

Pretty high praise coming from Meyer.

Also liked

UM: “I loved him. He was one of my favorite guys. I loved his dad (Brian Moore, who played tight end at Nebraska). I knew it was going to be an uphill climb, with his dad being a Nebraska graduate. He came to several games. Very respectful. Great player. Even better young man. We wanted him badly.” ..On our Freshman OT Tyler Moore

You must have missed the part where he said that the KSU game was the only game he watched. If K State or Okie State were all I had to go on, I'd think he was Superman too.

Wow...So far Tom Osborne has said the OSU game was the best game he has EVER seen a Husker QB have.

And now Urban Meyer says that hes one of the best athlete hes ever seen (and he coached at Florida in case you forgot)

and Bo Pelini trusts him enough to start him as a freshman and all he does is break QB rushing records for a game and earn freshman all american honors....comes up 40 yards short of being only the 3rd fresman EVER..to rush for over 1000 yards as a freshman (hurt half the year)..and all some of you want to do is bash him. What else could you possibly want. Tom Brady with Micheal Vicks Legs?...i mean come on give the kid some respect for crying out loud. Some of you guys are ridiculous.

Your a better judge of talent then Tom Osborne, Bo Pelini, and Urban Meyer? Unless your Bill Belichick, hanging out on a Husker football board....i'll take their judgement over yours anyday.

You Martinez fanboys are zealots. I mean, real zealots. If anyone doesn't declare him God's Gift, you swarm and attack like zombies.

Here is Meyer's quote:

“It's right there. The two leagues are very comparable. I haven't watched them much, but last year I came home and watched them against Kansas State. That quarterback, (Taylor) Martinez, was one of the best athletes I've ever seen play. He dominated that game. I was shocked that he had a few games where he didn't play as well. I think if he plays like that, they have a great chance of winning the Big Ten.”
Q: What else do you see in Martinez's game that's impressive? What does he need to work on?

UM: “I haven't seen enough of him to make an educated evaluation. All I know is what I saw the times I did see him. I'd love to coach him. I can tell you that. He's a dynamic athlete with the ball in his hands, and that's the kind of guys that I like.”

What you have is basically Meyer saying he watched us play K State and witnessed one of the best performances by a quarterback he's ever seen. We can all agree with that. Unfortunately, that wasn't always the story with Martinez, was it? He blew a$$ against SDSU, Texas, and then ever single game after his injury.

If Meyer had bothered to sit down and watch the SDSU or Texas game, you think he'd feel the same way? Maybe if he'd bothered to watch those games he wouldn't be shocked when Martinez "had a few games where he didn't play as well."

This is what you Martinez nuts will never get: Yes the kid had some sensational plays last year, but he also had some unbelievably bad games. He was as bad against SDSU and Texas as he was good against K State and Okie State. When you average "terrible" with "sensational," what do you get?

No, really go ahead and take a few minutes to think it through.

Honestly if Urban Meyer watched the Texas game he'd probably think "the QB played well, but the WRs couldn't catch a cold". That's a really bad example of Taylor having a bad game.