Monolith Object discovered on Mars

[tschu]

Thats hardly a cover-up. There were even a ton of people who questioned it at the time.

If it was a cover-up, they would have planted weapons in Iraq and claimed that they discovered them or something. If it was a cover-up, we wouldn't know about it. NUance's "swept under the carpet" term is a little bit better I suppose. The reason there is little outrage is that most people don't pay attention and connect the Iraq invasion with 9/11 because many people see all middle-eastern countries as being the exact same. There is also the factor that people hate (hated) Saddam and believed he needed to be outed anyways, even if the reasoning was faulty.

 

[wildman]

Nope, as a science guy (and a normal person) I take each piece of information that comes my way and evaluate it based on where it came from, what evidence supports it, and what evidence contradicts it. The government isn't this big mystical being walking around and doing sh#t. Government is people. All it takes is one person to go against a coverup and it fails. Our government is so inept and corrupt that any attempt to cover anything up would fail massively. It also depends on how big of a coverup you're talking about, of course. If the secret service wants to keep Obama's Tuesday schedule a secret, that isn't very hard. If the government wants to blow up the WTC and Pentagon with airplanes and fake the deaths of thousands of people - that is impossible. Same with moon landings, extraterrestrial life, any of the major supposed coverups that the tinfoil hat types like to shout about.

We just had a President who used fear to invade Iraq. His reasoning was that Iraq had biological weapons even though like 6 months before we invaded there was an international team in Iraq for inspection and couldn't find any. Yet he convinced Congress to go and invade Iraq on faulty intelligence. If that is not a cover up i don't know what is.

Maybe the biggest cover-up ever. Or at least the biggest thing swept under the carpet. It's shocking that there isn't more outrage over that.

Yall i've been to Iraq twice. During my first tour there we found fighter jets buried in the sand that we had been living on top of for months. Never knew they were there until a soldier happened to kick dirt in the right area and uncovered part of the tail fin. Now i'm not saying there are weapons of mass destruction or that their isn't. But is a possiblity they could be buried in the sand as well and just not found yet. I've driven from Baghad to Kuwait. The entire trip you see nothing but sand for miles just like you see almost nothing but cornfields in Iowa, Nebraska and Kansas.

I do however agree that there should be more outrage from the population over going to Iraq without finding any esepectially from the parents, husbands, wives and kids who have lost loved ones in Iraq.

 

[knapplc]

Saddam had WMD, at least at some point. We know he used gas against the Iranians and the Kurds.

The fact that we didn't find them doesn't mean they weren't there.

The fact that he had WMD doesn't justify the war.

 

[The Dude]

Nope, as a science guy (and a normal person) I take each piece of information that comes my way and evaluate it based on where it came from, what evidence supports it, and what evidence contradicts it.

The government isn't this big mystical being walking around and doing sh#t. Government is people. All it takes is one person to go against a coverup and it fails. Our government is so inept and corrupt that any attempt to cover anything up would fail massively.

It also depends on how big of a coverup you're talking about, of course. If the secret service wants to keep Obama's Tuesday schedule a secret, that isn't very hard. If the government wants to blow up the WTC and Pentagon with airplanes and fake the deaths of thousands of people - that is impossible. Same with moon landings, extraterrestrial life, any of the major supposed coverups that the tinfoil hat types like to shout about.

We just had a President who used fear to invade Iraq. His reasoning was that Iraq had biological weapons even though like 6 months before we invaded there was an international team in Iraq for inspection and couldn't find any. Yet he convinced Congress to go and invade Iraq on faulty intelligence. If that is not a cover up i don't know what is.

It's not a cover up, so you're right. You don't know what a cover up is.

 

[husker_99]

Nope, as a science guy (and a normal person) I take each piece of information that comes my way and evaluate it based on where it came from, what evidence supports it, and what evidence contradicts it.

The government isn't this big mystical being walking around and doing sh#t. Government is people. All it takes is one person to go against a coverup and it fails. Our government is so inept and corrupt that any attempt to cover anything up would fail massively.

It also depends on how big of a coverup you're talking about, of course. If the secret service wants to keep Obama's Tuesday schedule a secret, that isn't very hard. If the government wants to blow up the WTC and Pentagon with airplanes and fake the deaths of thousands of people - that is impossible. Same with moon landings, extraterrestrial life, any of the major supposed coverups that the tinfoil hat types like to shout about.

We just had a President who used fear to invade Iraq. His reasoning was that Iraq had biological weapons even though like 6 months before we invaded there was an international team in Iraq for inspection and couldn't find any. Yet he convinced Congress to go and invade Iraq on faulty intelligence. If that is not a cover up i don't know what is.

It's not a cover up, so you're right. You don't know what a cover up is.

Yeah i guess lying to Congress and giving them faulty intelligence would be in no way a cover up to go invade a country who had nothing to do with 9/11.

 

[husker_99]

Saddam had WMD, at least at some point. We know he used gas against the Iranians and the Kurds.

The fact that we didn't find them doesn't mean they weren't there.

The fact that he had WMD doesn't justify the war.

We allowed him to kill his own people and look the other way. Yes they may have like 10 years ago prior to invasion.

 

[husker_99]

Thats hardly a cover-up. There were even a ton of people who questioned it at the time.

If it was a cover-up, they would have planted weapons in Iraq and claimed that they discovered them or something. If it was a cover-up, we wouldn't know about it. NUance's "swept under the carpet" term is a little bit better I suppose. The reason there is little outrage is that most people don't pay attention and connect the Iraq invasion with 9/11 because many people see all middle-eastern countries as being the exact same. There is also the factor that people hate (hated) Saddam and believed he needed to be outed anyways, even if the reasoning was faulty.

Bill Clinton almost got impeached about lying over an affair. Bush lied over a war and nothing happened. What Bush done should've let to him being impeached.

 

[tschu]

This isn't even a discussion about cover-ups anymore so I'm done here

 

[husker_99]

This isn't even a discussion about cover-ups anymore so I'm done here

So in other words you were wrong. ok got it.

 

[Muck]

Bush lied over a war and nothing happened.

The President did not "lie" over a war.

Go and actually read the 2008 Senate Intelligence Committee that was commissioned by Senator Rockefeller. Although it is usually cited by various parties as the smoking gun that "BUSH LIED!!!" the actual conclusions state the claims made by the White House all were generally supported by the evidence that was made available to it...and that was from what was little more than a partisan attack piece meant specifically to try and undermine the administration.

That being said the mere thought that the folks at NASA, JPL, Ames, Goddard, the NRAO etc would even consider trying to cover up something as momentous as plausible signs of extra terrestrial intelligence is laughable.

 

[husker_99]

Bush lied over a war and nothing happened.

The President did not "lie" over a war.

Go and actually read the 2008 Senate Intelligence Committee that was commissioned by Senator Rockefeller. Although it is usually cited by various parties as the smoking gun that "BUSH LIED!!!" the actual conclusions state the claims made by the White House all were generally supported by the evidence that was made available to it...and that was from what was little more than a partisan attack piece meant specifically to try and undermine the administration.

That being said the mere thought that the folks at NASA, JPL, Ames, Goddard, the NRAO etc would even consider trying to cover up something as momentous as plausible signs of extra terrestrial intelligence is laughable.

So the international team of inspectors who found nothing are wrong? The CIA even admitted they have faulty intelligence on the matter but not after until the war had already started.

Why is it laughable? If we ever meet aliens how do we exactly know they are peaceful? Just because they would be more advanced doesn't mean they are also more compassionate.

 

[Muck]

So the international team of inspectors who found nothing are wrong?

The UNSCOM teams were never given enough access to adequately do their job. Unfortunately whether or not they found anything has little to do with whether anything was there. The Iraqis intentionally obstructed the teams at virtually every opportunity.

Now to spin the conspiracy hat around....if the Iraqis had nothing to hide, why were they trying so hard to hide their work?

The CIA even admitted they have faulty intelligence on the matter but not after until the war had already started.

Yes, and? The CIA screwed up with the Niger/Yellow Cake forgeries. It happens. That does not mean the President lied.

Why is it laughable?

Because we are talking about an extremely large number of civilian scientists who would be remembered with the likes of Copernicus, Galileo & Sir Isaac Newton if they happened to discover extra terrestrial intelligence. That is what many have dedicated their entire lives work to finding. And you think they would be complicit in hiding it from mankind?

Arguably the most highly classified undertaking in American history was the Manhattan Project. Despite the unprecedented secrecy surrounding the project, two of the physicists on the team still managed to leak information to the Soviets.

Yet an even larger number of non-conformist types is going to be complicit in hiding the largest discovery in human history? It just isn't going to happen. There's a reason that NASA & the civilian side is kept completely out of the loop when the CIA/NRO/NSA is launching a bird into orbit...it's because they don't trust the civilians to keep their mouths shut. Yet those same civilians are the ones handling all the deep space projects (Mars etc).

If we ever meet aliens how do we exactly know they are peaceful? Just because they would be more advanced doesn't mean they are also more compassionate.

Which is neither here or there. Even if you could convince every single astrophysicist that the green bug eyed monsters are a threat, there is just no way you are going to convince them all that people don't have a right to know about the threat.

 

[Foppa]

So that's where I parked my Martian car!

 

[huKSer]

Lying is saying something that you KNOW is wrong.

Saying something that you believe is true is NOT lying.

Not doing a thorough job of vetting/ cross checking your information is incompetence.

Intentionally misleading the world's lone superpower to believe you have WMDs to prevent yourself from being invaded is stupid.

 

[JJ Husker]

Here's another angle with some different levels of zoom.

I may be off on the scale if this thing but I'm pretty sure that is a DROID X cell phone. A sure sign that the martians get a little careless during their "probing" abductions.