Who is the #2 football player on the team?

[IvabigN]

Z. Lee was the better passer of the two, and he made better decisions... he just didnt have the wheels that Tmart did/does

they both suck at passing

when healthy Lee was one of the best passing QB's we've had in a while

 

[HuskerShark]

Z. Lee was the better passer of the two, and he made better decisions... he just didnt have the wheels that Tmart did/does

they both suck at passing

when healthy Lee was one of the best passing QB's we've had in a while

You mean since the previous year when Joe Ganz was the QB?....

 

[tschu]

Z. Lee was the better passer of the two, and he made better decisions... he just didnt have the wheels that Tmart did/does

they both suck at passing

when healthy Lee was one of the best passing QB's we've had in a while

LOL

 

[zoogs]

This is a great example of a guy who wasn't that great of a passer (Joe Ganz didn't exaclty have a stretch-the-field kind of arm) succeeding because of his experience within the offense, and a very fundamentally sound passer with an NFL arm (Lee) not enjoying that same level of comfort with the system. I guess you could also say that almost the entire time we saw him he was dealing with a pretty bad throwing arm injury.

 

[IvabigN]

Z. Lee was the better passer of the two, and he made better decisions... he just didnt have the wheels that Tmart did/does

they both suck at passing

when healthy Lee was one of the best passing QB's we've had in a while

You mean since the previous year when Joe Ganz was the QB?....

I said "Passing" Joe was a good QB but I was speaking to pure passing ability- before Lee got hurt,he had an arm that could have had him playing on Sundays- I'm not sure we've had anyone (other than a maybe a few recruits in the callihan dark years) with as much pure passing ability/potential since the 70's

 

[EZ-E]

Z. Lee was the better passer of the two, and he made better decisions... he just didnt have the wheels that Tmart did/does

they both suck at passing

when healthy Lee was one of the best passing QB's we've had in a while

You mean since the previous year when Joe Ganz was the QB?....

I said "Passing" Joe was a good QB but I was speaking to pure passing ability- before Lee got hurt,he had an arm that could have had him playing on Sundays- I'm not sure we've had anyone (other than a maybe a few recruits in the callihan dark years) with as much pure passing ability/potential since the 70's

I agree with the above statement. Zac was a good QB when he was healthy.

 

[OH HSKR FAN]

Zac or Zack?

 

[HuskerShark]

You mean since the previous year when Joe Ganz was the QB?....

I said "Passing" Joe was a good QB but I was speaking to pure passing ability- before Lee got hurt,he had an arm that could have had him playing on Sundays- I'm not sure we've had anyone (other than a maybe a few recruits in the callihan dark years) with as much pure passing ability/potential since the 70's

We can agree to disagree on this one. Yes, Lee had a strong arm, but Ganz was the much better passer of the two.

 

[Mierin]

Zac or Zack?

Zak

 

[kchusker_chris]

We're also comparing Sophomore Taylor Martinez to Junior Denard Robinson.

Regarding sacks - Taylor was sacked six times in the bowl game alone, including on back-to-back-to-back plays, so take that with a grain of salt. The O Line had just about given up by then.

Both in their 2nd year of being full-time starters. Both identical in age (i don't think robinson took a redshirt).

Looked it up: Robinson DoB (9/22/1990), Martinez DoB (9/15/1990). I don't think those extra 7 days give Taylor much of an edge.

And Taylor was deer in headlights on most of those 6. It was like Washington 3.0. He does that a lot.

Seven days by birth, one year at the college level. HUGE difference.

So does that mean that we can't say Martinez is better than Carnes because he has 2 years on Carnes? I don't see how it matters. Why do we always come back to this with Martinez - they guy will have more starts that Tommie Frazier sometime mid-way through this season. We'll be hearing again about how he's "just" a junior though....

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

We're also comparing Sophomore Taylor Martinez to Junior Denard Robinson.

Regarding sacks - Taylor was sacked six times in the bowl game alone, including on back-to-back-to-back plays, so take that with a grain of salt. The O Line had just about given up by then.

Both in their 2nd year of being full-time starters. Both identical in age (i don't think robinson took a redshirt).

Looked it up: Robinson DoB (9/22/1990), Martinez DoB (9/15/1990). I don't think those extra 7 days give Taylor much of an edge.

And Taylor was deer in headlights on most of those 6. It was like Washington 3.0. He does that a lot.

Seven days by birth, one year at the college level. HUGE difference.

So does that mean that we can't say Martinez is better than Carnes because he has 2 years on Carnes? I don't see how it matters. Why do we always come back to this with Martinez - they guy will have more starts that Tommie Frazier sometime mid-way through this season. We'll be hearing again about how he's "just" a junior though....

Mid-way through the season, Martinez will also own most Nebraska career passing records and be right up there with the rushing QBs. If he makes no adjustment to his throwing motion he will still be a better, more versatile passer than Frazier, Frost or Crouch. There are a lot of improvements Taylor Martinez needs to make -- footwork being the first -- but winning games is always the biggest cure.

And having watched Husker football for many, many, many years I can state categorically that Nebraska's recent receiving corps has been lacking by Husker standards, and is even more suspect by major college football standards. One Nate Swift in there and Martinez is completing 62% of his passes, dramatically reducing the hand-wringing in here.

 

[kchusker_chris]

We're also comparing Sophomore Taylor Martinez to Junior Denard Robinson.

Regarding sacks - Taylor was sacked six times in the bowl game alone, including on back-to-back-to-back plays, so take that with a grain of salt. The O Line had just about given up by then.

Both in their 2nd year of being full-time starters. Both identical in age (i don't think robinson took a redshirt).

Looked it up: Robinson DoB (9/22/1990), Martinez DoB (9/15/1990). I don't think those extra 7 days give Taylor much of an edge.

And Taylor was deer in headlights on most of those 6. It was like Washington 3.0. He does that a lot.

Seven days by birth, one year at the college level. HUGE difference.

So does that mean that we can't say Martinez is better than Carnes because he has 2 years on Carnes? I don't see how it matters. Why do we always come back to this with Martinez - they guy will have more starts that Tommie Frazier sometime mid-way through this season. We'll be hearing again about how he's "just" a junior though....

Mid-way through the season, Martinez will also own most Nebraska career passing records and be right up there with the rushing QBs. If he makes no adjustment to his throwing motion he will still be a better, more versatile passer than Frazier, Frost or Crouch. There are a lot of improvements Taylor Martinez needs to make -- footwork being the first -- but winning games is always the biggest cure.

And having watched Husker football for many, many, many years I can state categorically that Nebraska's recent receiving corps has been lacking by Husker standards, and is even more suspect by major college football standards. One Nate Swift in there and Martinez is completing 62% of his passes, dramatically reducing the hand-wringing in here.

So you'd take Martinez over Frazier, Frost, and Crouch? Wow. Bold. EDIT: Nevermind I read "player" instead of "passer"

(and I disagree w/ the second paragraph as well, but can't seem to get past the bolded part - even bshirt wouldn't go that far)

EDIT: To respond to the bold then (since I read it wrong)...does it really matter if he is a 3-5% better than Frazier/Frost/Crouch when we rarely pass the ball anyway? To me this is like saying Aaron Rodgers is a better rusher than Peyton Manning. Does it even matter? Unless Martinez ends up 10-15% better than the players mentioned, it won't matter because it will only account for another 1 completion a game. (Martinez had 288 attempts. If he completed 6% more of his passes, getting you to that 62%...it only adds 16 more completions over the course of 13 games. Not exactly a major impact when you're averaging 12 or so yards a pass. Maybe 1 more first down. 14 extra offensive yards a game?

 

[zoogs]

It seems to me that Crouch at least was a more fundamentally solid passer (he was fairly underrated in this category if I recall) and while a guy like Frost had unorthodox delivery, he had consistent delivery, it was just not conventional. And they all were all more in command of the offense overall, from the huddle to the line to the pocket.

Taylor, it's been an offseason of big strides hopefully, and maybe we'll see him grow into a comfortable field general back there - just one who throws weird. I think that's a fair standard to hold him to. But footwork/delivery being all over the place, as well as a proclivity to panic in the pocket, all things that would be unacceptable as a junior with two years under his belt of starting. Let's hope that isn't what happens.

I've never been too impressed with stat records that are accumulated just by volume, though.

 

[kchusker_chris]

It seems to me that Crouch at least was a more fundamentally solid passer (he was fairly underrated in this category if I recall) and while a guy like Frost had unorthodox delivery, he had consistent delivery, it was just not conventional. And they all were all more in command of the offense overall, from the huddle to the line to the pocket.

Taylor, it's been an offseason of big strides hopefully, and maybe we'll see him grow into a comfortable field general back there - just one who throws weird. I think that's a fair standard to hold him to. But footwork/delivery being all over the place, as well as a proclivity to panic in the pocket, all things that would be unacceptable as a junior with two years under his belt of starting. Let's hope that isn't what happens.

I've never been too impressed with stat records that are accumulated just by volume, though.

These will be key. Frankly if Martinez doesn't ever get above 60% I'll be fine. As I mentioned above...unless he is going to throw the ball 35 times a game (which maybe he will)...him improving to 62% (which would be good) is not going to have that much of an impact. As bad of a thrower as Martinez sometimes is...it's the other areas that have me more concerned...and if he improves in those will have a larger impact.

I don't know if it's the offense, or Martinez...but teams can scheme to shut this offense down. That's something Frazier, Crouch, and Frost didn't have to worry about much. Getting out-coached (either on the field through the QB position or in the booth) didn't happen often.

 

[knapplc]

The most glaring difference between Frazier, Crouch and Frost vs. Martinez? Not athletic ability. Not accompanying RBs. Not even WRs, where I think Martinez might have an advantage over the other guys.

The biggest difference is the Offensive Line.

We can make another 30-page thread about Martinez and examine everything about the guy if we want. But it won't matter if we somehow meld 1995 Tommie Frazier, 1997 Scott Frost and 2001 Eric Crouch into one Super Quarterback - if we can't get better, more consistent play from our Line, we're going to lose 3+ games again, easy.