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BREAKING FROM GOOGLE --- big, if true

The main problem I see with this is that you have a very poor understanding of strength and conditioning.

The Clouse kiss of death.

Geez a couple of you need to chill out. The staff recognized a problem and has taken the appropriate action. Calling this unacceptable is like missing the forest before the trees. Football is a rough sport. Concussions, CTE, neck spine injuries, heat stroke. Are these dangers not also “unacceptable “? Stuff like this happens. It’s part of the risk. Now if it continues to happen and a pattern develops, then we can start freaking out. Thinking Frost putting the blame on the previous staff or the players for being out of shape is just silly. He is owning up up to a “mistake “. He will do what he can to prevent this from happening again. If you are still skeptical, read everything that has been written about the man for the past six months.

So it was a workout that he had scaled down 20% and his UCF guys were doing the regular one with ease. Don't you see the real problem here?

Bad programming that won Duval strength coach of the year?

Only about half a page above an article titled "Cuckolding can be positive for some couples..." Yea, I'm gonna go ahead and not worry about that

Guys, this is completely unacceptable. Rhabdo is not a joking matter. You're supposed to be training these guys, not putting them in the hospital.

I'm going to disagree with 1 & 2 and I'll explain why. 1- I'm going to say it was purely accidental and I'm sure they'll keep an even closer eye on it to help prevent any recurrence. Most teams that are where we want to be are probably in better shape to handle a workout that has been scaled back 20%. It sounds to me like they made all the plans they could to try to prevent this, short of holding more Rileyesque workouts, and it still happened. Maybe my question was unfairly loaded. Maybe it's not a line teams flirt with....unless they're in extremely poor shape and then maybe the line gets crossed accidentally. 2- Based on what I've stated in #1, I don't think it's an unfair question at all if it's aimed at some posters who immediately want to blame it on poor programming or poor supervision or some shortcoming of the staff. I think we do have the resources and expertise to train these kids safely and by all accounts that is exactly what we were doing....but it still happened. We may basically agree here but I think it a bit unfair to place blame on a staff who obviously was taking all foreseeable steps to avoid this. My question was a being little facetious. I don't think every and all bad thing can be 100% prevented and I think expecting that to be the case is unreasonable. I have not suggested anyone not treat this seriously and it is obvious the staff takes it seriously, took every precaution and acted quickly and prudently to assure athlete safety. Sometimes sh#t happens no matter how much you plan to avoid it.

There's no need to be hyperbolic. It's important to acknowledge the seriousness of this and hope the coaches take it seriously. Nothing more. The team does need to get tougher but there are also some lines you don't cross. This is one of those lines alongside not pushing brain injuries.

More than likely, these 2 men over-exerted themselves to make a first good impression. They probably pushed themselves to a limit where they appeared exhausted and symptoms showed up after they left workouts. These coaches and trainers are well versed and if they had ANY inkling of what was happening, I am sure they would have stepped in. 1 case is too many. Probably a scenario where the coaches are now doing a better job of communicating to athletes to push themselves, yes, but to also take proper precautions moving forward. It is like a concussion. As a coach, I can't fix what I don't know. If an athlete takes a shot that isn't obviously forceful, yet begin feeling the symptoms of a concussion, I can't take the proper measures. The athletes need to be encouraged to be able to come to coaches about medical conditions without feeling as if they are being "weak". On the flip side, in some cases the symptoms have delayed onset. This is a bad situation and I hope and pray that these two guys recover fully and are able to live like nothing happened. I am not sure people need to be quick at pointing fingers.

Mike Riley era vs Scott Frost era

I don't want to speak for everyone, but I think we are all exhausted of the prior regimes, and just want to focus on dialogue that pertains to the current era. We've been dragged around long enough. I mean that with no disrespect. I just feel like we are in a much better place currently.

Not a knock on you but we need to stop with this "If you dont want us or if you have questions about coming here THEN WE DONT WANT YOU" He is an 18 year old kid. Who knows what his tweet was about.. Probably about a girl or something stupid. Again, not a knock on you because you arent the only one who does this. I made a comment about the RB Washington where i claimed I would prefer Henry because he wanted to play here. I think it is natural to want people to love this university like we do but forget that this decision is big time and they are allowed to be 18 year olds about it.

They dropped 8 mins off the lifting session because it was to much for some of the players. They also brought in more trainers to help keep an eye on them and to stop them if they started showing symptoms of over doing it. They were already taking precautions when this occurred.

Direct quote from Frost....

I think literally no one thinks this.

So a guy that has been a strength coach for decades and has won “arbitrary” awards now doesn’t know how to program? Come on, realistically this most likely a case of a couple guys either over exerting or being completely out of shape. Not because Duval is some mad man.

The thing here is that the idea that these guys could get even remotely *close* to rhabdo suggests that the programming is inappropriate. How many players did not technically have rhabdo, but were close? These kids are hand picked athletes, so as usual their natural ability will cover up the BS that is prescribed to them. Sure, I get it when some CrossFit hero at your local box gets rhabdo because his dime store coach doesn't know what he's doing. But we pay these guys a TON of money. We should expect better and so should their parents.

I don't understand your perspective fully. The only way to guarantee that rhabdo does not occur would be to avoid vigorous physical conditioning. There is no way for either the staff or the athletes to know where the line is between good hard work, and overwork... ALL physical training causes some degree of muscle fiber damage. It's simply a matter of how much is done and whether the body can respond productively to that damage. Rhabdo isn't really a binary diagnosis. There are highly variable levels of CK levels in the blood signifying muscle breakdown. At some point the number on the lab chart reaches the threshold to officially dx Rhabdomyolysis and significant concern for kidney function becomes the overwhelming priority for the health care providers.

Here's the difference. You must accept some of the risks you cited if you want to play high level football. There's no real way around it that I can see You do not need to and should not be expected to accept the risk of rhabdo if you want to train. You don't need to train so hard that parts of you *literally* die.

It's a serious matter. If your opinion is that getting the team in shape is worth risking the lives of the players, you need to rethink your priorities.

I think the real problem is the whole guys-in-the-hospital thing. But maybe I misread the story.

You don't get rhabdo from "simple" lifting sessions.

You continue to present the argument that people here consider the recruiting rankings the end all be all yet I don't see anyone saying this. You're arguing against a point no one has made. You also keep saying the system is "garbage" or "junk" when the statistical facts prove you're wrong. It's not that black and white. There's no nice way to say this - you are not understanding the math. 4 and 5 stars are a minority because there are way less of them, but they're still statistically more likely to play in the NFL. There's no possible way you "fully understand this" based on your retorts in this discussion because, if you did, you would see why your position makes no logical sense.

Best of luck Mr. Darlington

Think about that for a minute. MR left this team in worse shape conditioning wise than an 0-12 UCF team.

I just want to say LOL at grown men bitching about how or when an 18 year old decides to commit to a college.

Man, Nebraska could have saved $375,000 a year and just posted on Huskerboard asking for a work out program for the football team. I didn't realize how many experts there were in running a S&C program at a Major D1 college.program. I knew this place was full of expert level head coaches (myself included). This truly is the best board on the Internet.

Interesting that Mike Riley is never mentioned...

Diaco could see it though......

Riley had it figured out. No players overly strained on his watch

As has been mentioned previously, I don't think ALL the blame can be placed on Riley. But I think it's pretty obvious that a lot of it should be - both here and other reports. "This team is as out of shape in the weight room as this staff could ever imagined. It's caused them to change the entire winter program." - Sean Callahan

I hope the players make quick and full recoveries and we don’t see this happen again. But I think it reinforces how out of shape and poorly conditioned our players likely were based on the half-assed work culture Riley and Co. built. So rather than blaming Frost and his staff for this, I’d say the greater share of blame falls on Riley and his staff. How ridiculously pathetic is it that we bring in the best coaches and S&C guy in the country and their attempts to put the team through the type of workout championship programs engage in routinely almost kills a couple of our players. Should Frost and Duval have anticipated that Riley was such a lackadaisical no-talent hack that he would have to ease the players into actual football workouts? Maybe. But the core problem is that Riley didn’t have the guys conditioned to play competitive top-level football. And for those acting like Frost was risking the lives of health of his players to get them in shape, that’s the most asinine thing I’ve ever read. No one cares more about his players than he does. Look at the love his guys at Oregon and UCF had for him. He loves those guys and wants the best for them. My guess is he just gave Riley too much credit and underestimated how incompetent he was at developing players.

SIAP - sounds like we had basically abandoned squats the last three years. That seems to be changing now.

True! It's almost like training is a process full of many individual sessions. Each designed to help produce the desired adaptation.... hmm..

I don't think there's a question in the world that Frost isn't concerned about every aspect of the health of his guys. Period.

Isn't this also on the fault of the previous staff? If riley and co had these guys in the shape they were supposed to be in what is the chance of something like this happening especially this soon into wirk outs?

This is what I'm thinking.

they may not be nazis....yet.....but they are using the nazi playbook for grabbing more and more power. it is a fair comparison IMO. blame someone else for whatever problems they can imagine (germans had the jews, trump has illegals)...claim only they can fix whats wrong with the country...demonize opposing political views....i am sure there is more that my non caffinated brain hasn't thought of yet at this moment and....the american nazis are extremely pleased to have this administration. david duke shouted out on twitter something like "we did it" when trump was announced as the winner. if someone cares to find that tweet (or maybe facebook?) they are more than welcome. i am going by memory...not very good at searching for stuff like that. i will try but if someone finds it before me please post it.

When you break it down, its pretty easy to see. They all have more wins vs top 50 and 51-100 teams. And have no losses to 100+ teams. We have also played way more 100+ teams, leading to a much lower SOS than them. #36 A&M - 4-6 vs Top 50 / 3-2 vs 51-100 / 6-0 vs 100+ / #6 SOS #37 Mich - 2-4 vs Top 50 / 3-2 vs 51-100 / 12-0 vs 100+ / #59 SOS #47 Marq - 2-7 vs Top 50 / 3-1 vs 51-100 / 8-0 vs 100+ / #13 SOS #57 Neb - 1-5 vs Top 50 / 1-1 vs 51-100 / 15-2 vs 100+ / #91 SOS

Just thought I'd drop in and provide a little information on the type of workout they were doing. Forgive me if this is all a bit vague and jumbled, but it's been a while since I've done anything with S&C and am typing this on the quick. It's called a metabolic circuit. Google "metabolic circuit huskers" and the first result will be a pdf that explains it in pretty good depth, with a full breakdown of the lifts and work:rest ratios. It was developed and used by Nebraska in I believe the 90s, and continues to be the foundational program used by coaches belonging to the Epley/Arthur coaching tree. It is the "strength" component in a split program, which I'd wager coach Duval is using and looks essentially like this ("Heavy" and "Light" just means % of 1Rm used for weight): Monday Light "Power" (e.g. Clean shrugs, Hang Clean; plyometrics and speed work on the field) Tuesday Heavy "Strength" (e.g Metabolic circuit; agility on the field) Wednesday Off Thursday Heavy "Power" Friday Light "Strength" It is a KILLER workout. The intensity of the lifts combined with the W:R ratio makes you feel like you are going to die. The closest thing I could compare it to is like the feeling after running a really hard 400 or 800 when you're not properly conditioned, only worse, for about 35 minutes. If you are in less than excellent shape you will not be able to complete it. Even guys who are in "good" shape will really struggle with it because of the unique and particular stress it imposes on the body. I believe at one point they wouldn't allow athletes to do it without first being in the S&C program for two years, and even after that they had to do a month's worth of preparatory workouts which were basically metabolic circuits-lite (2x10 vs 3x10, working at lower %1RM). With all that said it will get results. It's almost like a cheat code for really jump starting physical development. Also, while it is akin to physical and psychological torture initially, you adapt to it pretty quick. I believe coach Duval said something to the effect that guys would be in survival mode at first, then later being able to really grab the reins and push it. That's a pretty accurate description of what the athletes will experience

This is more of an indictment on the previous strength/coaching staff than anyone else. It's hard to believe how (apparently) unprepared some of these players were for the off-season program. Good on Frost for taking accountibility on the issue, and let's just hope that it doesn't happen again, and there's no long term issues for the two players.

Frost saying, "we still made a mistake" is encouraging as he's accepting responsibility and acknowledging that a mistake was made, so it can get corrected.

i like some of the ideas for this 1. Let's have a popup like the old VH1 popup video days - where every time he speaks, a bubble pops up with the corporate interest that paid him to take that policy stance. 2. The Cheetos (not Doritos) State of the Union Hour 3. fake names seymor butz, mike hunt, v. putin, etc....