Someone remind me: Why is the gov't at war

[Eric the Red]

Terrorism has replaced Communism as the rationale for the militarization of the country [America], for military adventures abroad, and for the suppression of civil liberties at home. It serves the same purpose, serving to create hysteria.

 

HOWARD ZINN, Terrorism and War

[Eric the Red]

“Americans have been taught that their nation is civilized and humane. But, too often, U.S. actions have been uncivilized and inhumane.”

[HuskerExpat]

ZNet Commentary

War Is Not A Solution For Terrorism September 07, 2006

By Howard Zinn

 

[snip]

 

So if an action will inevitably kill innocent people, it is as immoral as a deliberate attack on civilians. And when you consider that the number of innocent people dying inevitably in "accidental" events has been far, far greater than all the deaths deliberately caused by terrorists, one must reject war as a solution for terrorism.

 

[snip]

 

 

amen, brother.

[husker rob]

I have finally seen the light by reading this last snippet of Howard Zinn. Here I was thinking all along that the innocent civilians that were being killed by homicide bombers blowing themselves up in crowded marketplaces, and that these homicide bombers were insurgents and terrorist wanting to crumble a week Iraqi government.

 

Come to find out it was the evil American empire that is going around setting off the car bombs. Every time a Soldier, Marine, Airman or Sailor is reported killed by a roadside bomb it is actually a cover-up for them blowing themselves up so that they could kill innocent civilians

[HuskerExpat]

I have finally seen the light by reading this last snippet of Howard Zinn. Here I was thinking all along that the innocent civilians that were being killed by homicide bombers blowing themselves up in crowded marketplaces, and that these homicide bombers were insurgents and terrorist wanting to crumble a week Iraqi government.

 

Come to find out it was the evil American empire that is going around setting off the car bombs. Every time a Soldier, Marine, Airman or Sailor is reported killed by a roadside bomb it is actually a cover-up for them blowing themselves up so that they could kill innocent civilians

 

You don't get it. That is not what he was saying at all. There was a time in this war when the strategy was dropping a lot of bombs which led to the inevitable result of a lot of innocent civilians were being killed. If you know your actions are going to kill thousands of civilians, then your actions are no better than the scumbag insurgents and suicide bombers who kill civilians. My guess is that the average Iraqi citizen would not tell you that he is ok with his mom being killed by a bomb from the sky but against his dad being killed by a suicide bomber.

 

Furthermore, the ends do not justify the means; not in theory, and certainly not in this specific case. That argument is morally bankrupt -- the insurgents/terrorists also argue that the ends justify the means.

 

Finally, do not confuse this argument as an attack on the members of our armed forces. It is not. The vast majority of us anti-war types understand that the soldiers, marines, airman and sailors are honorably doing their duties. We admire and respect that they are willing to put their lives on the line for us, even though we don't think they should be asked to risk their lives in this war. It is the Pentagon and civilian leadership that are acting dishonorably by risking the lives of our troops and ordering (primarilly in the past) bombings, etc., that inevitably resulted in thousands of innocents being killed.

[hskrdedhed]

I heard the gyros in Iraq are to die for.

[Eric the Red]

Mary Tillman, Seeking the Truth About Her Son

 

Pat Tillman's mother, Mary Tillman, faced Defense Department officials Monday as they offered the latest explanation of what happened to her son in Afghanistan. Mary Tillman says her family believes it was given "a very imbalanced presentation."

 

"A lot of the information they gave us was based on what the individuals that were actually in the shooter vehicle – that was their point of view," she says. "They didn't give any kind of information based on anyone else in the situation. I mean, it's a very complicated situation; that's why it's hard to put it in some kind of a nutshell. All I can say is that what we received was very imbalanced."

 

Steve Inskeep talks with Mary Tillman about the results of the investigation and her effort to learn the truth.

 

Well, I suppose there are at least two separate issues here. One is what actually happened to Pat Tillman on the battlefield.

 

Right.

 

And the other is what the U.S. military did with whatever information it had about that over time.

 

Well, and the thing that's also upsetting is that the original investigation, the one that was done within hours of Pat's death, or the one that was started immediately after he died... . And that particular officer indicated he saw evidence of homicidal negligence or criminal intent. That investigation was sort of put to the side. And then another investigation was put into place.

 

That original investigation we can't get our hands on, and they say it's because it was never signed. Yet, the officer himself said he gave a recommendation. You know, these kinds of things are very upsetting.

 

They told us that these soldiers drove by, in a matter four seconds, and shot up the ridgeline in a fog of war. Yet, when you go through the documents, it's very clear that witnesses indicate that these soldiers stopped the vehicle. Some of them got out of the vehicle. One for sure got out of the vehicle and was shooting. It's not like they drove by in a fog of war.

 

So on these two issues – what happened to Pat Tillman and what did the military do with the information that it had – the military says they made critical errors in reporting what they knew, but there was no criminal wrongdoing in the shooting. It sounds like you're not satisfied.

 

No, we're not satisfied with that. We're not saying that Pat was intentionally killed ... . We may have some questions about that, but that's nothing that we could ever prove. And I don't want to get into that. But, he died on [April 22, 2004]. His memorial service was May 3. They could have told us the truth. And if they didn't want to tell us the truth, they could have said that we don't know, we're doing an investigation. But what they did is they made up a story. That's not a misstep, and that's not an error. They made up a story. It was presented on national television. And we believe they did that to promote the war.

 

I imagine this meeting that you had with military officials yesterday must have been the latest, or perhaps the last of many meetings you've had where they've tried to explain what they know.

 

Right. And they always lie. And I'll be quite honest with you. The meeting was a travesty. I mean, we were lied to... . They told us that we were abusive. And I responded back that, you know, lying is a form of abuse, and we've been lied to for three years.

 

They said you were abusive to them.

 

They said we were abusive. And we were ...

 

Were you raising your voice?

 

I wouldn't have wanted to have been them. I mean, we got to the point where we were extremely rude to them, but they ... were just lying.

[Eric the Red]

I wouldn't have wanted to have been them. I mean, we got to the point where we were extremely rude to them, but they ... were just lying.

 

Our government lie.......no, can't be

[rawhide]

I believe that the US Supreme Court has ruled that no politician has to follow the 10 Commandments due to the separation of state and religion.

 

PC is how politicians are judged now but it is fun to hear one slip up and say the wrong thing (or right thing)on occasion.