Niles Paul got a DUI??

[Hunter94]

For everyone that gets caught, there is about 4 who doesn't. I'm sure tons of the players do the same thing. I hope Bo throws the book at him.

 

 

i agree, this is just the "tip of the iceberg"...there may be a drinking problem with our team, maybe not,

but either way, this has to be dealt with in a severe way before the drunk driving ends up causing a fatality.

ignoring it or "slapping wrists" only prolongs the eventual likelihood of a tragedy that will mark our program forever....this is serious business and the danger is to everyone on the road.

[ray233]

 

I would not advocate taking away his scholarship. But, suspend him from football --- to teach him (and others) that the cost for committing crimes is high --- and, by the way, Niles has committed two crimes that we know of --- both underage drinking and driving while drunk are crimes. He was on a suspended license and that probably was the result of a crime too.

 

Committing crimes? Give me a break.....you're acting like these were individual, sinister attempts to break the law and cause trouble. This is not armed robbery. The kid made a bonehead decision and is paying for it within the rules.

 

In your entire life.....have you ever gone even a single, solitary mile per hour over the speed limit? Have you ever roll-stopped at a stop sign? Have you ever sped up to beat a yellow light? Failed to yield? Turned without signaling?

 

If so, you've also technically committed crimes, so welcome to the ranks of the common criminal.

 

If not, you need to understand that you are in the top .0001% of law abiding citizens in the world....and you are refined to a level of human nature and self-control that many of us would not dare dream of achieving. It's not fair for us to be on the same message board as you, let alone trying to hold ourselves to your standard.

 

There's only one solution for this menace known as Niles "The Armed Robber of Death" Paul:

 

 

[skersfan]

Ray223

 

You are missing the point totally. The kid screwed up, I have no doubt he is a good kid. But the program is what is at stake here.

 

This has gone on way too many times in the last few years. These things are going to affect the program if they continue. Recruiting will suffer if a parent thinks there is a drinking problem and the coach is not doing everything he can to stop it. I think Bo is, but I think this one is going to open his eyes more. I expect Niles to pay a heavy price for the team. If he does not, then you are continuing on the path that has not worked very well.

 

This is more about protecting and guiding the next one who thinks it is okay. As mentioned many times Niles is supposed to an above average team member in all facets. If this level of athlete/person has no regard for the Head Coaches directions, how many more feel they are above rules and regulations of the team, the university and the state. This is my concern, I do not want to read that a Nebraska Football player driving under the influence has killed a family of four. Some how Bo has to get accross to them how serious it is. They could care less about fines, most seem to be proud of their drinking prowess, but you mention taking away their love and things change.

[robsker]

Ray223

 

You are missing the point totally. The kid screwed up, I have no doubt he is a good kid. But the program is what is at stake here.

 

This has gone on way too many times in the last few years. These things are going to affect the program if they continue. Recruiting will suffer if a parent thinks there is a drinking problem and the coach is not doing everything he can to stop it. I think Bo is, but I think this one is going to open his eyes more. I expect Niles to pay a heavy price for the team. If he does not, then you are continuing on the path that has not worked very well.

 

This is more about protecting and guiding the next one who thinks it is okay. As mentioned many times Niles is supposed to an above average team member in all facets. If this level of athlete/person has no regard for the Head Coaches directions, how many more feel they are above rules and regulations of the team, the university and the state. This is my concern, I do not want to read that a Nebraska Football player driving under the influence has killed a family of four. Some how Bo has to get accross to them how serious it is. They could care less about fines, most seem to be proud of their drinking prowess, but you mention taking away their love and things change.

 

 

Skersfan --- well done. You are spot on. And there is more. Niles himself needs to lose a year of football himself to be jacked into place. Ray223 seems to equate speeding (which is a crime sure, but....) to drunk driving. Not even close --- drunk driving is a blatant premeditate disregard for the community --- it is saying "I'll do what I want no matter what... the safety of those in the community does not matter --- I'll do what I'll do..." That is not a small thing. Neither is underage drinking. And, as pointed out so well by skersfan, it also Niles saying "I don't care about team rules or my coaches rules, or the reputation of the program and university --- I'll just do what I want anyway." That too is a major problem. If I were the coach, he'd be gone for the year --- or 1/2 year with the proviso that he could earn the privilege to practice (and potentially play) the second half of the season were he to make amends and earn the privilege (and Teafatiller would be just flat gone, permanently, as he is a two time offender). Anything less and Bo and company are just asking for players to be irresponsible. These kids need serious structure, and, as educators, the coaches have the chance to provide it. Tough love. You do the best, at the personal level, to see that the kids suspended indeed prosper as students, as citizens, as people. But, they lose privileges --- this development is without the right to practice or play.

[ray233]

If these two quotes are authentic...

 

"I'll do what I want no matter what... the safety of those in the community does not matter --- I'll do what I'll do..."

 

"I don't care about team rules or my coaches rules, or the reputation of the program and university --- I'll just do what I want anyway."

 

...then I'm right there with you guys. If not, those are wild and unfair assumptions.

 

 

I myself have driven under the influence in the past (thankfully, without incident), but I never once made a conscience choice reflective of the attitudes mentioned in those statements. My thoughts in those cases were more like "I can make it home safely" or "Everything will be fine...", not at all the assumptive attitudes that you guys have built your latest responses on.

 

You believe that Niles Paul committed these offenses with an intentional, conscience disregard for human life, as well as the people and organizations that support him. I don't believe that. I believe that Niles Paul is a 19-year old, who probably knew he wasn't doing the right thing, but did not consider the potential consequences strong enough to view them as reality. He probably thought that "Everything will be fine...", but he was obviously mistaken.

 

In that regard, it makes him a lucky young man, guilty of poor judgment...not the arrogant individualist defined by those quotes. You didn't think you were invincible as a teenager in one facet or another? If Niles is anything like most people I have known, this sort of errant behavior comes more from ignorance to reality's consequences and inexperience, than it does some malicious or elitist attitude.

 

The reason I continue to parallel this to speeding, is to supply a perspective that I think we can all relate to. Most of us have done it, and even though we know it's illegal, we've still done it.

 

Why is that? Because we have a blatant disregard for the law, our families, or lives lost in speed related traffic incidents? No. It's because we think "Everything will be fine..." We don't intend to hurt anybody or even get caught, but in those situations we think the real risk (as we understand it) is justified. You probably figure you have a good excuse for going a couple extra 'mph' and wouldn't want people putting damaging quotes in your mouth if you get caught.

 

Don't miss my point. I never once said Niles shouldn't be punished or held accountable for his actions. He is 100% accountable to the law, the community and the university for his transgressions. But in fairness, Niles himself is no more responsible for the next player's DUI than you are for the next guy's speeding ticket.

 

He should be punished based on the rules that he broke, that were in place when he broke them. If the team needs a harsher penalty for this, the coaches can set a new policy in place, effective immediately. I just don't feel Paul's punishment should be beyond what is already established, in order to try and offset other people's offenses in the past and future. That's not justice.

 

I think we all agree that any DUI event is bad news. We'll just have to agree to disagree on the punishment side of things.

 

 

[robsker]

If these two quotes are authentic...

 

"I'll do what I want no matter what... the safety of those in the community does not matter --- I'll do what I'll do..."

 

"I don't care about team rules or my coaches rules, or the reputation of the program and university --- I'll just do what I want anyway."

 

...then I'm right there with you guys. If not, those are wild and unfair assumptions.

 

 

I myself have driven under the influence in the past (thankfully, without incident), but I never once made a conscience choice reflective of the attitudes mentioned in those statements. My thoughts in those cases were more like "I can make it home safely" or "Everything will be fine...", not at all the assumptive attitudes that you guys have built your latest responses on.

 

You believe that Niles Paul committed these offenses with an intentional, conscience disregard for human life, as well as the people and organizations that support him. I don't believe that. I believe that Niles Paul is a 19-year old, who probably knew he wasn't doing the right thing, but did not consider the potential consequences strong enough to view them as reality. He probably thought that "Everything will be fine...", but he was obviously mistaken.

 

In that regard, it makes him a lucky young man, guilty of poor judgment...not the arrogant individualist defined by those quotes. You didn't think you were invincible as a teenager in one facet or another? If Niles is anything like most people I have known, this sort of errant behavior comes more from ignorance to reality's consequences and inexperience, than it does some malicious or elitist attitude.

 

The reason I continue to parallel this to speeding, is to supply a perspective that I think we can all relate to. Most of us have done it, and even though we know it's illegal, we've still done it.

 

Why is that? Because we have a blatant disregard for the law, our families, or lives lost in speed related traffic incidents? No. It's because we think "Everything will be fine..." We don't intend to hurt anybody or even get caught, but in those situations we think the real risk (as we understand it) is justified. You probably figure you have a good excuse for going a couple extra 'mph' and wouldn't want people putting damaging quotes in your mouth if you get caught.

 

Don't miss my point. I never once said Niles shouldn't be punished or held accountable for his actions. He is 100% accountable to the law, the community and the university for his transgressions. But in fairness, Niles himself is no more responsible for the next player's DUI than you are for the next guy's speeding ticket.

 

He should be punished based on the rules that he broke, that were in place when he broke them. If the team needs a harsher penalty for this, the coaches can set a new policy in place, effective immediately. I just don't feel Paul's punishment should be beyond what is already established, in order to try and offset other people's offenses in the past and future. That's not justice.

 

I think we all agree that any DUI event is bad news. We'll just have to agree to disagree on the punishment side of things.

 

 

 

 

Ray:

 

You have some god points and a well reasoned argument.

 

My response in the case of Paul is that he knew that the drinking age is 21, that he was not 21, that the team has rules against drinking under age, and that if he was caught that it would be publicized and that NU football, NU athletics and NU in general would look bad --- and he knew it would let down his coaches and his teammates --- and yet he chose to drink as a minor anyway. On top of which he drove as well, while drunk --- knowing that impaired drivers endanger those on the streets (he cannot not know this). This was a purposeful act and is, in essence (perhaps without stating it directly) equivalent to saying "I'll do what I want no matter what... the safety of those in the community does not matter --- I'll do what I'll do..." and "I don't care about team rules or my coaches rules, or the reputation of the program and university --- I'll just do what I want anyway."

 

The kid has no excuses. Stupidity is not an excuse --- it may be involved but it is not an excuse. Immaturity is not an excuse --- it may be involved, but is no excuse. Thinking to yourself that you won't get caought is not an excuse --- it is stupidity and immaturity --- and arrogance --- but no excuse.

 

I do appreciate your sentiment that I (and perhaps others) are a bit rabid about this and over-reacting. You could be right --- yet i am, I guess, a hardcore disciplenarian and this situation, in my view, requires hard discipline.

 

If Bo warned them about drinking underage (as I am reasonably certain he has -- if he has not, then he is at fault for not doing so) then this kid just spat in Bo's face when he chose to do this. So.... hard discipline.

[robsker]

If these two quotes are authentic...

 

"I'll do what I want no matter what... the safety of those in the community does not matter --- I'll do what I'll do..."

 

"I don't care about team rules or my coaches rules, or the reputation of the program and university --- I'll just do what I want anyway."

 

...then I'm right there with you guys. If not, those are wild and unfair assumptions.

 

 

I myself have driven under the influence in the past (thankfully, without incident), but I never once made a conscience choice reflective of the attitudes mentioned in those statements. My thoughts in those cases were more like "I can make it home safely" or "Everything will be fine...", not at all the assumptive attitudes that you guys have built your latest responses on.

 

You believe that Niles Paul committed these offenses with an intentional, conscience disregard for human life, as well as the people and organizations that support him. I don't believe that. I believe that Niles Paul is a 19-year old, who probably knew he wasn't doing the right thing, but did not consider the potential consequences strong enough to view them as reality. He probably thought that "Everything will be fine...", but he was obviously mistaken.

 

In that regard, it makes him a lucky young man, guilty of poor judgment...not the arrogant individualist defined by those quotes. You didn't think you were invincible as a teenager in one facet or another? If Niles is anything like most people I have known, this sort of errant behavior comes more from ignorance to reality's consequences and inexperience, than it does some malicious or elitist attitude.

 

The reason I continue to parallel this to speeding, is to supply a perspective that I think we can all relate to. Most of us have done it, and even though we know it's illegal, we've still done it.

 

Why is that? Because we have a blatant disregard for the law, our families, or lives lost in speed related traffic incidents? No. It's because we think "Everything will be fine..." We don't intend to hurt anybody or even get caught, but in those situations we think the real risk (as we understand it) is justified. You probably figure you have a good excuse for going a couple extra 'mph' and wouldn't want people putting damaging quotes in your mouth if you get caught.

 

Don't miss my point. I never once said Niles shouldn't be punished or held accountable for his actions. He is 100% accountable to the law, the community and the university for his transgressions. But in fairness, Niles himself is no more responsible for the next player's DUI than you are for the next guy's speeding ticket.

 

He should be punished based on the rules that he broke, that were in place when he broke them. If the team needs a harsher penalty for this, the coaches can set a new policy in place, effective immediately. I just don't feel Paul's punishment should be beyond what is already established, in order to try and offset other people's offenses in the past and future. That's not justice.

 

I think we all agree that any DUI event is bad news. We'll just have to agree to disagree on the punishment side of things.

 

 

 

 

Ray:

 

You have some god points and a well reasoned argument.

 

My response in the case of Paul is that he knew that the drinking age is 21, that he was not 21, that the team has rules against drinking under age, and that if he was caught that it would be publicized and that NU football, NU athletics and NU in general would look bad --- and he knew it would let down his coaches and his teammates --- and yet he chose to drink as a minor anyway. On top of which he drove as well, while drunk --- knowing that impaired drivers endanger those on the streets (he cannot not know this). This was a purposeful act and is, in essence (perhaps without stating it directly) equivalent to saying "I'll do what I want no matter what... the safety of those in the community does not matter --- I'll do what I'll do..." and "I don't care about team rules or my coaches rules, or the reputation of the program and university --- I'll just do what I want anyway."

 

The kid has no excuses. Stupidity is not an excuse --- it may be involved but it is not an excuse. Immaturity is not an excuse --- it may be involved, but is no excuse. Thinking to yourself that you won't get caought is not an excuse --- it is stupidity and immaturity --- and arrogance --- but no excuse.

 

I do appreciate your sentiment that I (and perhaps others) are a bit rabid about this and over-reacting. You could be right --- yet i am, I guess, a hardcore disciplenarian and this situation, in my view, requires hard discipline.

 

If Bo warned them about drinking underage (as I am reasonably certain he has -- if he has not, then he is at fault for not doing so) then this kid just spat in Bo's face when he chose to do this. So.... hard discipline.

 

 

Ray: make that "you have some GOOD points --- not GOD points --- that is perhaps giving you too much credit!!!!

[ray233]

 

Ray:

 

You have some god points and a well reasoned argument.

 

My response in the case of Paul is that he knew that the drinking age is 21, that he was not 21, that the team has rules against drinking under age, and that if he was caught that it would be publicized and that NU football, NU athletics and NU in general would look bad --- and he knew it would let down his coaches and his teammates --- and yet he chose to drink as a minor anyway. On top of which he drove as well, while drunk --- knowing that impaired drivers endanger those on the streets (he cannot not know this). This was a purposeful act and is, in essence (perhaps without stating it directly) equivalent to saying "I'll do what I want no matter what... the safety of those in the community does not matter --- I'll do what I'll do..." and "I don't care about team rules or my coaches rules, or the reputation of the program and university --- I'll just do what I want anyway."

 

The kid has no excuses. Stupidity is not an excuse --- it may be involved but it is not an excuse. Immaturity is not an excuse --- it may be involved, but is no excuse. Thinking to yourself that you won't get caought is not an excuse --- it is stupidity and immaturity --- and arrogance --- but no excuse.

 

I do appreciate your sentiment that I (and perhaps others) are a bit rabid about this and over-reacting. You could be right --- yet i am, I guess, a hardcore disciplenarian and this situation, in my view, requires hard discipline.

 

If Bo warned them about drinking underage (as I am reasonably certain he has -- if he has not, then he is at fault for not doing so) then this kid just spat in Bo's face when he chose to do this. So.... hard discipline.

 

Rob,

 

I appreciate the cordial reply. My point is simply that the punishment that Paul receives should be based on the punishment defined for the rules he broke (and I agree that he willingly broke all of them). But if the discipline for those actions is not strong enough, then the discipline needs to be changed going forward. We don't have to change the rules on Niles Paul, in order for the next guy to follow a hardened disciplinary policy. It may send a message to some guys if he's exemplified, but I believe it's neither fair nor necessary to do it in mid-swing.

 

Bo could sit this team down at any time and lay down the new rules (and if they're as extreme as a loss of a scholarship for a DUI, so be it). As long as the punishment is defined beforehand, it's each player's job to weigh the risks of his actions.

 

If sitting out for a year was the punishment for a DUI a week ago, I wouldn't have anything to say about this. My contention is not really focused on the harshness of the punishment, but the fairness of it's application. I would be equally disturbed if the coaches did nothing and the rules demanded otherwise.

[ray233]

Ray: make that "you have some GOOD points --- not GOD points --- that is perhaps giving you too much credit!!!!

 

Way too much.

[VA Husker Fan]

Not saying it's right or wrong, but how do you think future recruiting will be affected if Bo and Tom have much less tolerance and hand out punishments MUCH more severe than any other such program?

 

I also think the focus is misguided. It seems that now that the concern is that no NEBRASKA FOOTBALL PLAYER is responsible for a DUI homicide. Why not focus on the state law itself, and make the punishment more severe? Is it any more comforting to see someone charged with a DUI homicide, and say, "he was a great high school football player, it sure is a good thing he didn't become a Husker!" How does that help anyone?

[BIGREDIOWAN]

Just so some of you know how this process works in Iowa, as I would imagine it's fairly the same in Nebraska. If I stop someone under 21 for an OWI and let's say they are below the .08 limit. Then it's considered an .02 violation and the process is handled administratively. This means there is no criminal charge to deal with, just the charge of the .02 violation and they will have their driver's license revoked longer or the department of transportation will impose a different punishment. We release the individual to a safe driver, tow their car, and issue them a few citations. Now the citations will need to be handled through the courts, i.e. the driving while license suspended citation, but the .02 violation will be handled seprately. If he blew over a .08 then it would be a regular OWI and the criminal charges that go along with it.

[Hunter94]

Not saying it's right or wrong, but how do you think future recruiting will be affected if Bo and Tom have much less tolerance and hand out punishments MUCH more severe than any other such program?

 

I also think the focus is misguided. It seems that now that the concern is that no NEBRASKA FOOTBALL PLAYER is responsible for a DUI homicide. Why not focus on the state law itself, and make the punishment more severe? Is it any more comforting to see someone charged with a DUI homicide, and say, "he was a great high school football player, it sure is a good thing he didn't become a Husker!" How does that help anyone?

 

 

i would say how Bo handles this will tell us a lot about the direction of this program.

[Hunter94]

 

Ray:

 

You have some god points and a well reasoned argument.

 

My response in the case of Paul is that he knew that the drinking age is 21, that he was not 21, that the team has rules against drinking under age, and that if he was caught that it would be publicized and that NU football, NU athletics and NU in general would look bad --- and he knew it would let down his coaches and his teammates --- and yet he chose to drink as a minor anyway. On top of which he drove as well, while drunk --- knowing that impaired drivers endanger those on the streets (he cannot not know this). This was a purposeful act and is, in essence (perhaps without stating it directly) equivalent to saying "I'll do what I want no matter what... the safety of those in the community does not matter --- I'll do what I'll do..." and "I don't care about team rules or my coaches rules, or the reputation of the program and university --- I'll just do what I want anyway."

 

The kid has no excuses. Stupidity is not an excuse --- it may be involved but it is not an excuse. Immaturity is not an excuse --- it may be involved, but is no excuse. Thinking to yourself that you won't get caought is not an excuse --- it is stupidity and immaturity --- and arrogance --- but no excuse.

 

I do appreciate your sentiment that I (and perhaps others) are a bit rabid about this and over-reacting. You could be right --- yet i am, I guess, a hardcore disciplenarian and this situation, in my view, requires hard discipline.

 

If Bo warned them about drinking underage (as I am reasonably certain he has -- if he has not, then he is at fault for not doing so) then this kid just spat in Bo's face when he chose to do this. So.... hard discipline.

 

Rob,

 

I appreciate the cordial reply. My point is simply that the punishment that Paul receives should be based on the punishment defined for the rules he broke (and I agree that he willingly broke all of them). But if the discipline for those actions is not strong enough, then the discipline needs to be changed going forward. We don't have to change the rules on Niles Paul, in order for the next guy to follow a hardened disciplinary policy. It may send a message to some guys if he's exemplified, but I believe it's neither fair nor necessary to do it in mid-swing.

 

Bo could sit this team down at any time and lay down the new rules (and if they're as extreme as a loss of a scholarship for a DUI, so be it). As long as the punishment is defined beforehand, it's each player's job to weigh the risks of his actions.

 

If sitting out for a year was the punishment for a DUI a week ago, I wouldn't have anything to say about this. My contention is not really focused on the harshness of the punishment, but the fairness of it's application. I would be equally disturbed if the coaches did nothing and the rules demanded otherwise.

 

 

if nothing else comes out of this, the one thing should be this.......Bo needs to layout for all to see a core set of discipline rules, so, as some have already said, the kids know up front the punishment if caught violating the core set of rules.....no surprises, no whining, no excuses, just punishment for all....no exceptions.