The Death Penalty

[teachercd]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A girl in my school, years ago, was dragged out to a corn field in southern Illinois, she was wrapped and butchered, stabbed something like 30 times. The guys that did it got her by dressing like cops and pulled her over, it's how they got her in the car.

They were caught and one admitted to it...which helped the law catch the other guy too, who then admitted to it.

Those guys deserve to die.

 

What is the purpose of killing them?

So that they never hurt anyone again.

It is 100% effective. They admitted to being killers...if they were put to death they would never hurt anyone again. If I was a member of that family I would be in constant fear that they would hurt me or my family again.

Life without parole would do the same thing.

What if they kill a guard?

As someone who has a family member who is a prison guard, that is an extremely valid question.

 

A quick google search shows that the average time someone is on death row is 15 years. There are over 3,000 people on death row right now.

 

I tried googling it but can't find anything. Can you tell me the last time someone on death row killed anyone else?

Nope, I can't. I also can't tell you how many death row inmates have ever hurt a guard or anyone else.

I also can't solve most chemical engineering equations

My point is basically what almost all scientific studies of the affects of the death penalty show.

Other than seeking vengeance against someone who committed a heinous crime, the death penalty doesn't keep the public any safer than life without parole.

 

When I read stories like you wrote, I get sick to my stomach and extremely angry at the people who are so sick that they would do something like that.

 

But, killing them doesn't solve the problem.

 

Then....when you look at the study that was posted (I think from zoogs) about the affects sentencing someone to death has on jurors...etc.

 

It's not worth it.

It's not worth it to some.

[teachercd]

 

 

 

 

Seeing a trial end yesterday about two men who first attempted to rob a family, then ended up raping the wife, and young (11 I think) daughter, finished them off by pouring gas on them lighting them on fire while tied to their beds. They found the 11 y/o away from her bed. I guess the ropes had burnt off before she died, and tried to escape.

Today I read about the Elizabeth Smart trial. Nine months in servitude being raped by a man who told her if she spoke out he would kill her and her family. S spent weeks chains to trees being raped daily, with only a pale for relief, and the only place to sleep was in a tent next to her abductor.

In my opinion all three of these men (and possibly the complacent wife w/the Smart case) should be put to death. It is about justice, not deterrence. I dont care how much it costs to bring about justice, I want to make damn sure they are guilty (in the these examples there is NO doubt), and when that is proven they will die. Prison is not punishment enough for them, they are granted there rights, even though they have taken the ultimate right of another to live (or in the case of Smart, her childhood, and more than likely, any chance at a normal life).

 

Anyone that is still against when they hear about this is fooling themselves. If this, any of it, happened to someone you loved you would want them dead.

Of course we would feel that way. Who wouldn't?

 

However, the point I was making has to do with the article I provided. It showed that two men were framed and convicted wrongfully. What if they were put to death and they were someone you loved? What then in that case?

It would suck.

What if they filmed themselves slicing your mom up...so you could see for sure it was them...

*sigh* Mmmk. So much for trying to ignite constructive discourse.

Agreed

[teachercd]

Let me just say that I totally get why people are against it...for so many different reasons.

[Moiraine]

 

 

 

Seeing a trial end yesterday about two men who first attempted to rob a family, then ended up raping the wife, and young (11 I think) daughter, finished them off by pouring gas on them lighting them on fire while tied to their beds. They found the 11 y/o away from her bed. I guess the ropes had burnt off before she died, and tried to escape.

Today I read about the Elizabeth Smart trial. Nine months in servitude being raped by a man who told her if she spoke out he would kill her and her family. S spent weeks chains to trees being raped daily, with only a pale for relief, and the only place to sleep was in a tent next to her abductor.

In my opinion all three of these men (and possibly the complacent wife w/the Smart case) should be put to death. It is about justice, not deterrence. I dont care how much it costs to bring about justice, I want to make damn sure they are guilty (in the these examples there is NO doubt), and when that is proven they will die. Prison is not punishment enough for them, they are granted there rights, even though they have taken the ultimate right of another to live (or in the case of Smart, her childhood, and more than likely, any chance at a normal life).

Anyone that is still against when they hear about this is fooling themselves. If this, any of it, happened to someone you loved you would want them dead.

If someone hurt/killed someone I loves I might kill them in a fit of rage. I also might regret it soon after.

Also, seeing as I'm Christian I believe in Hell and nothing I could do would he as bad as that. It's up to God to judge people. I'm fine with locking them up so they can't hurt anyone else.

True...Thank God for confession

 

I said Christian. Not Catholic.

[84HuskerLaw]

A few responses seem in order:

1. It does not cost more to execute someone as opposed to life in prison. The annual cost inmate of prisons in this country exceeds 100,000 each. The argument that all the appeals and legal costs, etc of the process etc through final execution which is often more than 10 years is not an honest one. People somehow assume that inmates who get long prison sentences (life, 50 years, 35 years, etc) don't file endless appeals and requests for new trials, etc etc. Almost any convicted person will atleast seriously consider an appeal and the right to counsel typically provides a 'free' counsel to make the process work. The death sentence is not any different and in some cases, convicts actually don't want to appeal and look forward to the execution as a relief from prison life and or life filled with remorse or simple hate, etc. Budget issues are NOT even material or relevant in my view as we are talking about matters of justice, deterence, punishment and societal protection.

 

2. Fairness in the sense of what is the appropriate level of incarceration or 'punishment' as a penalty for the offense comitted is certainly a matter of individuals personal opinions in many ways. Society, through its legislative representatives and duly appointed and acting judges and other penal system authorities, have attempted to pass judgement and established sentencing and other penal guidelines and terms for parole, probation, work release, etc, etc. and even pardons. The feeling of anger, outrage and need for revenge and a sense of punishment by the victim and those close thereto often leads to demands for rather harsh punishment, beyond that which the more disinterested third party civilian would deem 'fair'.

 

3. The criminal justice system in America is literally loaded with many layers of safeguards and limiting factors with the constant focus and justice and fairness in the treatment of each and every accused and even those found guilty. From the basic safeguards long before an arrest of limits on law enforcement in the apprehension, arrest, detension and many judicial hearings in front of impartial judges and juries of our peers, to multiple appeals, government provided attorneys, investigations, supeona power, etc etc.etc. Post conviction reviews, rehearings, appellate reviews, reconsideration by prosecutors, police and FBI, etc etc. While cases of miscarriage of justice do in fact occur, they are very very few and far between. The system is far from perfect but it is the most perfect of any around the entire planet.

 

4. Science and technology has helped in the areas of forensics and so on but mistakes do happen. The greater risk is the intentional miscarriage (frame ups by dirty cops or judges or etc) but these are likewise very rare.

 

5. I believe the best approach might be something as simple as the creation of a new, independent review board or committee or other body that would take a look at each and every 'capital case' and perhaps even those involving long, mandatory sentences which indicate the convict will likely never be released in his or her life expectancy. I also believe it is not unreasonable to give the convict the 'option' of asking for execution as opposed to multiple life sentences (true life withouot any release possible). Effectively it is a sort of suicide. I see no reason it is perfectly lawful for suicide by a non-felon civilian while we deny the same to prisoners. This would truly reduce costs of penal system if that is a virtue to be even considered.

[teachercd]

 

 

 

 

Seeing a trial end yesterday about two men who first attempted to rob a family, then ended up raping the wife, and young (11 I think) daughter, finished them off by pouring gas on them lighting them on fire while tied to their beds. They found the 11 y/o away from her bed. I guess the ropes had burnt off before she died, and tried to escape.

Today I read about the Elizabeth Smart trial. Nine months in servitude being raped by a man who told her if she spoke out he would kill her and her family. S spent weeks chains to trees being raped daily, with only a pale for relief, and the only place to sleep was in a tent next to her abductor.

In my opinion all three of these men (and possibly the complacent wife w/the Smart case) should be put to death. It is about justice, not deterrence. I dont care how much it costs to bring about justice, I want to make damn sure they are guilty (in the these examples there is NO doubt), and when that is proven they will die. Prison is not punishment enough for them, they are granted there rights, even though they have taken the ultimate right of another to live (or in the case of Smart, her childhood, and more than likely, any chance at a normal life).

Anyone that is still against when they hear about this is fooling themselves. If this, any of it, happened to someone you loved you would want them dead.

If someone hurt/killed someone I loves I might kill them in a fit of rage. I also might regret it soon after.

Also, seeing as I'm Christian I believe in Hell and nothing I could do would he as bad as that. It's up to God to judge people. I'm fine with locking them up so they can't hurt anyone else.

True...Thank God for confession

 

I said Christian. Not Catholic.

 

Thanks

Better hope that God doesn't read post boards...cause there are been some mean posts!

[teachercd]

I love the idea of the convicted person choosing...Life in prison or death. I bet, even if that were an option that we would have total busy bodies that would have to try and fight that.

[funhusker]

I love the idea of the convicted person choosing...Life in prison or death. I bet, even if that were an option that we would have total busy bodies that would have to try and fight that.

Don't mean to derail a thread, but "assisted suicide" would need to be passed first. Many people would go birzerk (sp?) if a convicted murderer had a say in how/when they die and a 70 year old terminally ill person doesn't.

[teachercd]

 

I love the idea of the convicted person choosing...Life in prison or death. I bet, even if that were an option that we would have total busy bodies that would have to try and fight that.

 

Don't mean to derail a thread, but "assisted suicide" would need to be passed first. Many people would go birzerk (sp?) if a convicted murderer had a say in how/when they die and a 70 year old terminally ill person doesn't.

Good point!

[zoogs]

Berserk

 

Assisted suicide is starting to pass in places, I think.

[Enhance]

A few responses seem in order:

1. It does not cost more to execute someone as opposed to life in prison. The annual cost inmate of prisons in this country exceeds 100,000 each. The argument that all the appeals and legal costs, etc of the process etc through final execution which is often more than 10 years is not an honest one. People somehow assume that inmates who get long prison sentences (life, 50 years, 35 years, etc) don't file endless appeals and requests for new trials, etc etc. Almost any convicted person will atleast seriously consider an appeal and the right to counsel typically provides a 'free' counsel to make the process work. The death sentence is not any different and in some cases, convicts actually don't want to appeal and look forward to the execution as a relief from prison life and or life filled with remorse or simple hate, etc. Budget issues are NOT even material or relevant in my view as we are talking about matters of justice, deterence, punishment and societal protection.

That's a blanket statement proven wrong time and again, 84HuskerLaw.

 

In Kansas, they found the median death penalty case costs $1.26 million. Non-death penalty cases (counted through to the end of incarceration) had a median cost of $740,000. Investigation costs alone were found to be three times higher than that of non-death penalty cases.

 

A study commissioned in Nebraska in August found Nebraska taxpayers spend $1.5 million more on death penalty prosecution cases than life without parole prosecution.

 

California found that each death row prisoner costs taxpayers $90,000 more per year than an inmate in general pop.

 

Budget issues are incredibly material and relevant in the discussion.

[jimk]

 

 

I love the idea of the convicted person choosing...Life in prison or death. I bet, even if that were an option that we would have total busy bodies that would have to try and fight that.

Don't mean to derail a thread, but "assisted suicide" would need to be passed first. Many people would go birzerk (sp?) if a convicted murderer had a say in how/when they die and a 70 year old terminally ill person doesn't.

Good point!

 

 

^^^ Has that phrase ever been typed in the Politics and Religion forum before?!?!

[Moiraine]

 

 

A few responses seem in order:

1. It does not cost more to execute someone as opposed to life in prison. The annual cost inmate of prisons in this country exceeds 100,000 each. The argument that all the appeals and legal costs, etc of the process etc through final execution which is often more than 10 years is not an honest one. People somehow assume that inmates who get long prison sentences (life, 50 years, 35 years, etc) don't file endless appeals and requests for new trials, etc etc. Almost any convicted person will atleast seriously consider an appeal and the right to counsel typically provides a 'free' counsel to make the process work. The death sentence is not any different and in some cases, convicts actually don't want to appeal and look forward to the execution as a relief from prison life and or life filled with remorse or simple hate, etc. Budget issues are NOT even material or relevant in my view as we are talking about matters of justice, deterence, punishment and societal protection.

That's a blanket statement proven wrong time and again, 84HuskerLaw.

 

In Kansas, they found the median death penalty case costs $1.26 million. Non-death penalty cases (counted through to the end of incarceration) had a median cost of $740,000. Investigation costs alone were found to be three times higher than that of non-death penalty cases.

 

A study commissioned in Nebraska in August found Nebraska taxpayers spend $1.5 million more on death penalty prosecution cases than life without parole prosecution.

 

California found that each death row prisoner costs taxpayers $90,000 more per year than an inmate in general pop.

 

Budget issues are incredibly material and relevant in the discussion.

 

 

These are made up! There's no such thing as a fact anymore!!!11one

[funhusker]

 

 

 

I love the idea of the convicted person choosing...Life in prison or death. I bet, even if that were an option that we would have total busy bodies that would have to try and fight that.

Don't mean to derail a thread, but "assisted suicide" would need to be passed first. Many people would go birzerk (sp?) if a convicted murderer had a say in how/when they die and a 70 year old terminally ill person doesn't.

Good point!

 

 

^^^ Has that phrase ever been typed in the Politics and Religion forum before?!?!

 

Now if I could just get my wife to say it too.....

[Enhance]

 

The question is: will it ever happen?