PaulCrewe Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I have heard Harvey Perlman is actually either TuffTiger or BeachBuff. Quote Link to comment
zoogs Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Actually, the administration has been known to read (or at least be aware) of Huskerboard in the past B) Anyway, about Frost. My feeling is I support him coming here in this context: * Frost is a great recruiter. I like the term 'go-getter.' We need some guys like that, both in terms of energy and in what they bring on the recruiting front. Would be a great asset to us to be a part of this program. * The fact that he is an ex-Husker is just a curiosity, nothing more. * Frost could come in here and coach WRs, which is his only experience coaching anything on offense. It makes the most sense and it's an area we are currently highly deficient in. Frost has some eclectic experiences as a player and coach, but he hasn't exactly absorbed the minds of Chip Kelly and Bill Walsh. We shouldn't expect that or anything even close to it. He isn't going to bring the Oregon spread here, he's going to bring whatever he knows and however well he knows it, and that's something which is a bit of a wildcard, in terms of offensive scheme. * I sort of doubt his abilities as a QB coach and would rather him coach WRs. I think for our QBs, we will look to someone with familiarity currently: i.e, Beck. Maybe Frost will be groomed in this direction, I don't know. I am not basing this on much but I'm a bit more confident with Beck working with the QBs. He has a jump start on that as well, having done all the QB work since bowl prep. * We are not going to go after a big-time OC, I don't think. We are going to go after a guy that will operate under Bo's direction here and familiarity with what he wants to run, as well as a philosophical match with what we are trying to do, are going to be important. I don't like that necessarily, but it ain't gonna change. * So that said, and also thinking Frost won't take a lateral move to come here, it is worth it to give him the co-OC tag. * That said, he is still up and coming and learning on the job. To hand him full coordinator responsibilities is a mistake and a risk I don't think we should be taking with the OC position at the University of Nebraska. Given the constraints of what I believe to be our options, Frost would be an intriguing hire as someone to get within the folds and groom as co-OC. But that is it, in my opinion. I still believe people greatly extrapolate Frost's coaching abilities because of his status as a highly visible former Nebraska player. But I don't think that works the other way around, either: I don't think it colors my view too negatively of him as a coach. I objectively feel that depending on what you give him for responsibilities, he can either be an exciting hire or an unacceptable risk. It is the same with Doug Colman, ex-Nebraska linebacker that I would be just stoked to get for LBs coach. 1 Quote Link to comment
Hercules Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 Zoogies - Say you're Bo Pelini, and you're negotiating with Frost. Frost won't make a lateral move to just be a position coach, whether it's QB's or WR's. You have to offer him at least Co-Offensive coordinator. Let's also say Frost won't come for a title and pay bump. He wants responsibility. How much are you willing to give him? Do you give him gameplan preparation along with coaching the WRs, or do you go a step further and give him playcalling responsibilities while sharing gameplan duties with Beck? 2nd scenario: Frost will only come on board as the offensive coordinator. Do you give it to him? I'm painting it in this light because I have a feeling that this (along with $$ negotiations) is probably what's going on right now. It is a risk for Nebraska to completely hand the keys to the offense over to Frost, who has never been OC. However, is it worth it? I can't say without knowing Frost's expertise as well as Pelini does. But, if it comes down to a decision of, "Well, we want him here, but we want him after a few more years of him getting experience," then do you want to risk him getting that experience elsewhere and never ending up at Nebraska, or do you want to get him now, let him get that experience at Nebraska (where we have a defense that can at least temporarily ease his growing pains), and keep him long term? As far as coaching the QB's, I'd be pretty happy about Frost getting that job. He knows practically every position on the field, but he still knows that one better than anyone just because he actually played it. He understands the role of the QB in the Nebraska program, (on and off the field), and he understands how to be a running QB. Turner Gill never had experience coaching at all before he joined Osborne's staff. Then Tommie Frazier, Scott Frost, and Eric Crouch happened. I'd love to see what Frost could do with Taylor Martinez... Quote Link to comment
Hunter94 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Zoogies - Say you're Bo Pelini, and you're negotiating with Frost. Frost won't make a lateral move to just be a position coach, whether it's QB's or WR's. You have to offer him at least Co-Offensive coordinator. Let's also say Frost won't come for a title and pay bump. He wants responsibility. How much are you willing to give him? Do you give him gameplan preparation along with coaching the WRs, or do you go a step further and give him playcalling responsibilities while sharing gameplan duties with Beck? 2nd scenario: Frost will only come on board as the offensive coordinator. Do you give it to him? I'm painting it in this light because I have a feeling that this (along with $$ negotiations) is probably what's going on right now. It is a risk for Nebraska to completely hand the keys to the offense over to Frost, who has never been OC. However, is it worth it? I can't say without knowing Frost's expertise as well as Pelini does. But, if it comes down to a decision of, "Well, we want him here, but we want him after a few more years of him getting experience," then do you want to risk him getting that experience elsewhere and never ending up at Nebraska, or do you want to get him now, let him get that experience at Nebraska (where we have a defense that can at least temporarily ease his growing pains), and keep him long term? As far as coaching the QB's, I'd be pretty happy about Frost getting that job. He knows practically every position on the field, but he still knows that one better than anyone just because he actually played it. He understands the role of the QB in the Nebraska program, (on and off the field), and he understands how to be a running QB. Turner Gill never had experience coaching at all before he joined Osborne's staff. Then Tommie Frazier, Scott Frost, and Eric Crouch happened. I'd love to see what Frost could do with Taylor Martinez... no one else, that i know of, is offering him an OC position....Bo should offer him a co OC job, 3 years after, if he has proven himself, the training wheels come off and he can run the show as OC...meantime he can work with/compete with Beck. Quote Link to comment
Hercules Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 Why does it matter if nobody else is offering him an OC position? As far as I know, Pelini wasn't being offered DC positions when Solich hired him... Quote Link to comment
zoogs Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 No WAY I would give him playcalling duties if I were Bo Pelini. Beck at least has the experience of being a passing game coordinator, has just been around longer, both in the profession and in our program. Frost has coached offense for two years and has a lot of room to grow as a coach, I'd bet. He is far from reaching his true potential. If he were to actually demand playcalling duties, that'd be just silly of him. Maybe some lower level school would be willing to take that chance and hand all those duties to him at this point in his coaching career, but I'd rather not see Nebraska do that. But gameplan preparation, I figure all the offensive coaches should have input on that and Frost, as a co-OC, ought definitely to be in that conversation every week. Second scenario: No. Hate to miss out because of a timing issue, but Frost is a second year WRs coach now. He may be rising up the ladder but what has he shown as an offensive schemer and a playcaller? Nothing and to boot, he has very little experience (if at all!) working in those areas. It would be a hell of a jump. So I can't really say without real knowledge of what Frost is or isn't good at, but it's a heck of a risk to give him all of that, even if 'theoretically' he is supposed to be a good playcaller. As far as that goes though, there's nothing that would leave me to believe it. It doesn't mean it isn't true, it's just that Brion Carnes is likely a far more polished passer than Frost is as a polished offensive schemes/playcalling guy. And many hear don't even put much stock into the former. QBs is the thing I'm likeliest to yield on, I just don't see Beck not getting that role due to familiarity. Who knows, though. The Pelini comparison doesn't really make sense because Bo was a defensive positions coach for 9 years in the NFL, before he got his shot at DC. And Bo was a prodigy rising up the ranks fast. Quote Link to comment
Hunter94 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Why does it matter if nobody else is offering him an OC position? As far as I know, Pelini wasn't being offered DC positions when Solich hired him... frostie's coaching experience, compared to Pelini's at that time is way less... Quote Link to comment
HuskerBruin Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Actually, the administration has been known to read (or at least be aware) of Huskerboard in the past B) Anyway, about Frost. My feeling is I support him coming here in this context: * Frost is a great recruiter. I like the term 'go-getter.' We need some guys like that, both in terms of energy and in what they bring on the recruiting front. Would be a great asset to us to be a part of this program. * The fact that he is an ex-Husker is just a curiosity, nothing more. * Frost could come in here and coach WRs, which is his only experience coaching anything on offense. It makes the most sense and it's an area we are currently highly deficient in. Frost has some eclectic experiences as a player and coach, but he hasn't exactly absorbed the minds of Chip Kelly and Bill Walsh. We shouldn't expect that or anything even close to it. He isn't going to bring the Oregon spread here, he's going to bring whatever he knows and however well he knows it, and that's something which is a bit of a wildcard, in terms of offensive scheme. * I sort of doubt his abilities as a QB coach and would rather him coach WRs. I think for our QBs, we will look to someone with familiarity currently: i.e, Beck. Maybe Frost will be groomed in this direction, I don't know. I am not basing this on much but I'm a bit more confident with Beck working with the QBs. He has a jump start on that as well, having done all the QB work since bowl prep. * We are not going to go after a big-time OC, I don't think. We are going to go after a guy that will operate under Bo's direction here and familiarity with what he wants to run, as well as a philosophical match with what we are trying to do, are going to be important. I don't like that necessarily, but it ain't gonna change. * So that said, and also thinking Frost won't take a lateral move to come here, it is worth it to give him the co-OC tag. * That said, he is still up and coming and learning on the job. To hand him full coordinator responsibilities is a mistake and a risk I don't think we should be taking with the OC position at the University of Nebraska. Given the constraints of what I believe to be our options, Frost would be an intriguing hire as someone to get within the folds and groom as co-OC. But that is it, in my opinion. I still believe people greatly extrapolate Frost's coaching abilities because of his status as a highly visible former Nebraska player. But I don't think that works the other way around, either: I don't think it colors my view too negatively of him as a coach. I objectively feel that depending on what you give him for responsibilities, he can either be an exciting hire or an unacceptable risk. It is the same with Doug Colman, ex-Nebraska linebacker that I would be just stoked to get for LBs coach. Very well said. Quote Link to comment
Hunter94 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 No WAY I would give him playcalling duties if I were Bo Pelini. Beck at least has the experience of being a passing game coordinator, has just been around longer, both in the profession and in our program. Frost has coached offense for two years and has a lot of room to grow as a coach, I'd bet. He is far from reaching his true potential. If he were to actually demand playcalling duties, that'd be just silly of him. Maybe some lower level school would be willing to take that chance and hand all those duties to him at this point in his coaching career, but I'd rather not see Nebraska do that. But gameplan preparation, I figure all the offensive coaches should have input on that and Frost, as a co-OC, ought definitely to be in that conversation every week. Second scenario: No. Hate to miss out because of a timing issue, but Frost is a second year WRs coach now. He may be rising up the ladder but what has he shown as an offensive schemer and a playcaller? Nothing and to boot, he has very little experience (if at all!) working in those areas. It would be a hell of a jump. So I can't really say without real knowledge of what Frost is or isn't good at, but it's a heck of a risk to give him all of that, even if 'theoretically' he is supposed to be a good playcaller. As far as that goes though, there's nothing that would leave me to believe it. It doesn't mean it isn't true, it's just that Brion Carnes is likely a far more polished passer than Frost is as a polished offensive schemes/playcalling guy. And many hear don't even put much stock into the former. QBs is the thing I'm likeliest to yield on, I just don't see Beck not getting that role due to familiarity. Who knows, though. The Pelini comparison doesn't really make sense because Bo was a defensive positions coach for 9 years in the NFL, before he got his shot at DC. And Bo was a prodigy rising up the ranks fast. exactly, correct on all counts. Quote Link to comment
Hercules Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 Ok. I definitely see the risk in hiring Frost, but I'd be leaning towards taking that risk, just because there seems to be so much upside, so much potential for him. I'd like to see him fulfill that potential at Nebraska, rather than someplace else. Anyways, I think this comes down to x's and o's more than anything. I'm guessing Bo is going to or already has sat down with Frost and talked scheme, playcalling, etc. When you know the game as well as Pelini does, you can probably get an idea within about 5 minutes whether Frost has the expertise required of an offensive coordinator. Experience would be a nice bonus, but I think that if Frost really has the necessary expertise, than I say get him now while you still can. Quote Link to comment
zoogs Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I agree Hercules, that's the X-factor that I at least don't have any read on... Quote Link to comment
Hercules Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 Why does it matter if nobody else is offering him an OC position? As far as I know, Pelini wasn't being offered DC positions when Solich hired him... frostie's coaching experience, compared to Pelini's at that time is way less... Not when it comes to being a coordinator. Neither of them had experience in that role. Quote Link to comment
Hunter94 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Why does it matter if nobody else is offering him an OC position? As far as I know, Pelini wasn't being offered DC positions when Solich hired him... frostie's coaching experience, compared to Pelini's at that time is way less... Not when it comes to being a coordinator. Neither of them had experience in that role. Bo had a ton of NFL coaching time, Frost has zero...experience matters. Quote Link to comment
huskerscott Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Why does it matter if nobody else is offering him an OC position? As far as I know, Pelini wasn't being offered DC positions when Solich hired him... frostie's coaching experience, compared to Pelini's at that time is way less... Not when it comes to being a coordinator. Neither of them had experience in that role. Bo had a ton of NFL coaching time, Frost has zero...experience matters. Yes..... Bo had a dozen or so years coaching in the NFL. Frost has 2 years coaching Division 1 football. Even if Frost came here as Co-OC I would have some concerns, but as just as wide receivers, I would be perfectly fine with that. Oregons receivers were way more productive than Nebraskas. Thats one of the reason they were so hard to defend. They did alot passing stuff out of the offense to counter the read. Nebraska failed miserably in that department. Quote Link to comment
HuskerNMO Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Why does it matter if nobody else is offering him an OC position? As far as I know, Pelini wasn't being offered DC positions when Solich hired him... frostie's coaching experience, compared to Pelini's at that time is way less... Not when it comes to being a coordinator. Neither of them had experience in that role. Frost has 1 year as a co defensive coordinator, but not offensive. Quote Link to comment
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