Alleged Miami Violations "Biggest NCAA Investigators Have Ever Seen"

[The Dude]

the death penalty would be harsh now wouldn't it?

Um, no. Not even a little bit.

[fro daddy]

There are a couple of things that need to be considered when trying to compare the two.

#1. SMU was placed on probation 5 times from 1974-1985. In 1986 after the Dallas news report came out that resulted in the 6th time in 11 years they were found guilty of violations, thus leading to the death penalty.

 

#2. When comparing money lets get something straight before we call people out for not knowing what they are talking about. First of all, inflation from the mid 80's to the mid 2000's. The cost of items nearly doubled, so paying a player a MONTHLY payment of $500 is like paying $1000 today. That is $12,000 a YEAR to just that player.

 

As redblooded correctly pointed out, but wrongly interpreted, the killer for SMU was the continuation of the slush fund. Continuing to pay the players on the "payroll" after the school was placed on probation for doing just that. That slush as redblooded stated was $61,000 to 13 players. Where redblooded was wrong is that the CC charges for the strip and night club, which did total nearly $150K was for over 5 years of going. HOWEVER, that $61K, nearly $120K in 2005, to just 13 players happend over ONE SCHOOL YEAR. That's right, SMU administration and Ath Dept. knowing advised and had payments of $120K (Today's Value) paid to 13 players WHILE on probation for illegally recruiting and paying players. SMU admittedly had a smaller payroll in 85-86 because they didnt add any new players to it after being recently put on probation for the 5th time in 10 years, but continued to pay players that had been paid before. So in other words, That was the smallest payroll they have had in years. $61,000 a year was a small payroll....think about it.

 

#3. Comparing this UM case and using 10 years worth of numbers and money to just the final straw on SMU is foolish and shortsighted. SMU paid 100's of players over the years. They gave large sums of money then made monthly payments until that player was gone. The player who blew the whistle of SMU, Sean Stopperich, was reportedly given $25,000 and THEN monthly payments around $350 while at SMU. That is just one player. One player out of nearly 10 recruiting classes that had players allegedly/or known to have been paid sums of money to commit and then monthly stipends. That one player recieved $29,200 for his commitement and 1st year at SMU. And that is from 1983. That is worth nearly $53,000 for one player in 2005. What SMU spent in total and who they spent on has and will always be in doubt. Not all they numbers where found and unlike that UM case nobody from SMU involved was spilling beans. The numbers we have on SMU where what they were able to find/prove. But what about players like Eric Dickerson, who allegedly received cash, a new car and monthly payments. Those numbers are not known because they were never proven.

 

These two cases are similar, but down playing SMU as something not on the same level as UM is silly. In my eyes, UM has yet to prove it’s on the same level of corruption as SMU.

[gobiggergoredder]

Whether it is Miami, Ohio State or USC, I just find it unfortunate that poor leadership can devastate a program and those that legitimately work hard as a part of it.

[Creed]

I thought the major difference in SMU was they were caught paying players twice in short time period. It was the school paying the players (the cash envelope were mailed from SMU offices) and the administration and board covered it up and still paid players after they were caught. It was corruption at the highest level.

[gobiggergoredder]

the death penalty would be harsh now wouldn't it?

Um, no. Not even a little bit.

 

I may be wrong, but I thought in ESPN 30 for 30 about SMU there were major discussions about how the NCAA would do everything they could to stay away from the 'Death Penalty'. The repercussions of nuking SMU went far past the football field.

[knapplc]

Steve Gorten is a reporter for the South Florida Sun-Sentinel.

 

All 12 current #UM players named by Nevin Shapiro in #Yahoo! story are out here practicing

[VectorVictor]

Does this constitute lack of institutional control? lol. The NCAA might as well drop the hammer tomorrow before noon and just save themselves time and money.

 

If Yahoo! Sports would just give the NCAA their investigative materials there wouldn't be any need for a full-blown investigation, just corroboration. Yahoo! did a fantastic job:

 

In an effort to substantiate the booster’s claims, Yahoo! Sports audited approximately 20,000 pages of financial and business records from his bankruptcy case, more than 5,000 pages of cell phone records, multiple interview summaries tied to his federal Ponzi case, and more than 1,000 photos. Nearly 100 interviews were also conducted with individuals living in six different states. In the process, documents, photos and 21 human sources – including nine former Miami players or recruits, and one former coach – corroborated multiple parts of Shapiro’s rule-breaking.

 

 

I mean... wow. That's a hell of a story.

 

And people say that old-school journalism is dead.

 

This, folks, is how you do a story. Kudos to Wertzel and Yahoo Sports.

[VectorVictor]

the death penalty would be harsh now wouldn't it?

Um, no. Not even a little bit.

 

I may be wrong, but I thought in ESPN 30 for 30 about SMU there were major discussions about how the NCAA would do everything they could to stay away from the 'Death Penalty'. The repercussions of nuking SMU went far past the football field.

 

True, but you had a culture at SMU of disrespecting authority and willful defiance of the NCAA that spanned years.

 

This Miami issue spans decades. The NCAA *has* to nuke them from orbit, or you're going to further embolden the SEC and their cheating ways.

 

And Fro--this may not be as bad as SMU (which is debatable), but it is a blatant, brazen disregard for repeated multiple NCAA regulations that has lasted for decades at this school.

 

That alone, even if there were no payments handed out, is worth a death penalty.

[fro daddy]

the death penalty would be harsh now wouldn't it?

Um, no. Not even a little bit.

 

I may be wrong, but I thought in ESPN 30 for 30 about SMU there were major discussions about how the NCAA would do everything they could to stay away from the 'Death Penalty'. The repercussions of nuking SMU went far past the football field.

 

True, but you had a culture at SMU of disrespecting authority and willful defiance of the NCAA that spanned years.

 

This Miami issue spans decades. The NCAA *has* to nuke them from orbit, or you're going to further embolden the SEC and their cheating ways.

 

And Fro--this may not be as bad as SMU (which is debatable), but it is a blatant, brazen disregard for repeated multiple NCAA regulations that has lasted for decades at this school.

 

That alone, even if there were no payments handed out, is worth a death penalty.

 

Oh I agree. I dont know if the NCAA will actually do the 'death penalty', but if there was ever a reason to do it again, this is it. And you are right that they have now had this issue on two seperate, but long running occasions covering the 80's-early 90's and then the 2000's.

 

My response was more a 'reminder' of what exactly it was that SMU did and how often it was done.

[knapplc]

Oh I agree. I dont know if the NCAA will actually do the 'death penalty', but if there was ever a reason to do it again, this is it. And you are right that they have now had this issue on two seperate, but long running occasions covering the 80's-early 90's and then the 2000's.

 

My response was more a 'reminder' of what exactly it was that SMU did and how often it was done.

 

I'm glad you posted this, because at first blush it seemed like you were downplaying the Miami situation up there.

[fro daddy]

Oh I agree. I dont know if the NCAA will actually do the 'death penalty', but if there was ever a reason to do it again, this is it. And you are right that they have now had this issue on two seperate, but long running occasions covering the 80's-early 90's and then the 2000's.

 

My response was more a 'reminder' of what exactly it was that SMU did and how often it was done.

 

I'm glad you posted this, because at first blush it seemed like you were downplaying the Miami situation up there.

 

No. Its huge. And its true, atleast to some extent as a number of people and playes have confirmed many of the claims. I guess i was just taken aback about how some where completetly downplaying SMU in regards to these UM claims. They are alot alike, with in my mind the main difference being that SMU was repeatly caught doing it over a short period, and then continued to pay players after being caught .

[jaws]

Some of the people mentioning OSU in the same sentence as this mess will be disappointed when the NCAA hands down their punishment to OSU.

 

Also, just to remind people that are still comparing OSU to USC....31 is greater than 5.

 

Now back to the Miami bashing......

[stargazer]

On a lighter note... does this mean we will be named 2001 National Champions?

[knapplc]

Stewie Mandel knocks Former Miami athletic director Paul Dee out of the park:

 

Credibility of NCAA enforcement will be tested by Miami allegations

 

 

Reading through Yahoo! Sports' bombshell expose about former Miami booster Nevin Shapiro, my blood boiled thicker with every paragraph. But who exactly was I angry at?

 

Strangely, it wasn't Shapiro, the jocksniffing, 5-foot-5 sleazebucket with one hell of a Napolean complex. The man comes off mostly pathetic for thinking the 18- and 19-year-olds whom he took to nightclub VIP rooms, bought prostitutes for and handed over the keys to his yacht were actually his friends -- the kind of friends, mind you, who inexplicably abandoned him when he got sent to jail for his part in a $930-million Ponzi scheme.

 

 

[tschu]

No. Its huge. And its true, atleast to some extent as a number of people and playes have confirmed many of the claims. I guess i was just taken aback about how some where completetly downplaying SMU in regards to these UM claims. They are alot alike, with in my mind the main difference being that SMU was repeatly caught doing it over a short period, and then continued to pay players after being caught .

Yes, and the fact that it was directly at the administration level at SMU. In terms of volume, these two instances are close. But people tend to have a recency bias, and seeing the words "prostitutes" "strip clubs" and "abortion" tends to inflate the severity of this stuff in people's minds. SMU was doing their thing for years and was caught multiple times and still continued to pay recruits and players cash for their services. It was a systematic, pay-for-play thing going on there for almost a decade. Although coaches and maybe somebody in the Miami athletic dept possibly "knew" about this stuff, they weren't directly involved from what we've been told. And that is where the difference lies. (Don't get me wrong the Miami stuff is still incredibly serious and the NCAA is gonna f#*k them hard with the long dick of the law. But they will not get the death penalty, and it is likely that no team will get the death penalty ever again.)