The Religious Discussion of 2012

[Landlord]

Almost baby.

 

It can also be considered a parasite.

 

Not having an abortion, I'm dispensing of the matter that makes me fat for nine months.

 

Huskerjack23 is almost human.

Some would equate him to a parasite.

I'm not committing murder, I'm simply ridding myself of an annoyance.

 

How is my take on this substantially different from yours?

Huskerjack23 has a conscience - a fetus does not until a certain point. I think that is substantially different.

 

 

...what? Conscience isn't even a scientifically defined thing, and even if it was, there are profound differences in thought on what it is, how it works, etc. To state what conscience is or isn't is a mistake, and to say that some beings or creations have it and others don't is one even more-so.

 

Unless you mean consciousness, which is a different argument, but still an invalid one. Coma patients don't have consciousness either.

[zoogs]

Almost baby.

 

It can also be considered a parasite.

 

Not having an abortion, I'm dispensing of the matter that makes me fat for nine months.

 

Huskerjack23 is almost human.

Some would equate him to a parasite.

I'm not committing murder, I'm simply ridding myself of an annoyance.

 

How is my take on this substantially different from yours?

 

You are not carrying huskerjack23 in your womb.

 

It's a complicated and divisive issue, but important, I think, to recognize that the fetus isn't autonomous. It may one day become a full-fledged person, if the woman chooses to go through with her term of pregnancy. However, there are many, extraordinarily complex reasons why in some cases, the choice may be something else. I think, or hope, that everyone finds the moral weight of that decision to be an extremely serious one, but I also cannot presume to say that (for example) all non-rape, non-life-threatening cases are wrong and must be condemned.

[Enhance]

Almost baby.

 

It can also be considered a parasite.

 

Not having an abortion, I'm dispensing of the matter that makes me fat for nine months.

 

Huskerjack23 is almost human.

Some would equate him to a parasite.

I'm not committing murder, I'm simply ridding myself of an annoyance.

 

How is my take on this substantially different from yours?

Huskerjack23 has a conscience - a fetus does not until a certain point. I think that is substantially different.

 

 

...what? Conscience isn't even a scientifically defined thing, and even if it was, there are profound differences in thought on what it is, how it works, etc. To state what conscience is or isn't is a mistake, and to say that some beings or creations have it and others don't is one even more-so.

 

Unless you mean consciousness, which is a different argument, but still an invalid one. Coma patients don't have consciousness either.

I did mean consciousness, and it is entirely valid. Saying it's not means denying scientific fact.

 

The physical substrate responsible for consciousness development is called the thalamo cortical complex, which does not develop in a child until the 24th to 28th week of gestation. Until that point, a child does not have consciousness.

[Landlord]

Almost baby.

 

It can also be considered a parasite.

 

Not having an abortion, I'm dispensing of the matter that makes me fat for nine months.

 

Huskerjack23 is almost human.

Some would equate him to a parasite.

I'm not committing murder, I'm simply ridding myself of an annoyance.

 

How is my take on this substantially different from yours?

Huskerjack23 has a conscience - a fetus does not until a certain point. I think that is substantially different.

 

 

...what? Conscience isn't even a scientifically defined thing, and even if it was, there are profound differences in thought on what it is, how it works, etc. To state what conscience is or isn't is a mistake, and to say that some beings or creations have it and others don't is one even more-so.

 

Unless you mean consciousness, which is a different argument, but still an invalid one. Coma patients don't have consciousness either.

I did mean consciousness, and it is entirely valid. Saying it's not means denying scientific fact.

 

The physical substrate responsible for consciousness development is called the thalamo cortical complex, which does not develop in a child until the 24th to 28th week of gestation. Until that point, a child does not have consciousness.

 

 

Is it appropriate to define life and humanhood by consciousness?

[Enhance]

Is it appropriate to define life and humanhood by consciousness?

Yes, which is why I don't have a problem with people choosing to have an abortion until this point.

 

Furthermore, to your coma point, that's not even remotely true. Studies and tests have shown levels of consciousness in coma patients. In fact, there's one case where a man was in a coma for several years and doctors decided to perform consciousness tests on him. They were able to communicate with the patient and found out that although he wasn't physically awake, there were specific signs registering his understanding of the questions he was being asked.

 

A child without a thalamo cortical complex is completely incapable of consciousness. My guess, however, is that you define humandhood and life at the exact moment of procreation. One of the main issues of the debate is people see different levels of humanhood.