What would you do if you found out your partner was "Transgender"?

Do States have an obligation to inform couples of their partner's actual genders?

  • Yes

    Votes: 8 36.4%

  • No

    Votes: 14 63.6%
  • Total voters
    22
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Excel

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I was watching Lockup the other day and they interviewed this inmate who had murdered his "wife" back in the 1980's. Apparently he had met her/him at a gentlemen's club where he/she portrayed her/himself as a woman. They had sex and were even went so far as getting married without the inmate realizing that the "wife" had actually been a man. During the honeymoon the inmate started to wonder and came to the conclusion that his "wife" was actually, biologically, a man and shot he/she to death...anyhow this got me wondering.

I don't know how its possible that one could get that far in a relationship without knowing or at least somehow wondering if their partner was actually of the same gender but what would you do if put in the same position?

Say you're the type of guy that doesn't believe in pre-marital sex so you never explored the nether areas of your partner or what if the person had such a convincing surgery that it was somehow indistinguishable from a person born female...what would you do if you later found that this person was actually of your sex?

Also, what about laws? Should states be required to inform both individuals of their original genders as part of the marriage license process?

Personally, I don't know how you can get that far in a relationship without knowing. Granted, I don't have much experience with these sorts of people, at least I don't think I have, so I have no idea how convincing they can actually be.

On the second question I think that States absolutely should inform couples of each partner's true gender. I say "true" gender because I don't think that "sex reassignment" or whatever its called now truly changes the gender of a person. Castration does not a woman make and chromosomes don't lie.

 
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Bucky, on 18 March 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

I was watching Lockup the other day and they interviewed this inmate who had murdered his "wife" back in the 1980's. Apparently he had met her/him at a gentlemen's club where he/she portrayed her/himself as a woman. They had sex and were even went so far as getting married without the inmate realizing that the "wife" had actually been a man. During the honeymoon the inmate started to wonder and came to the conclusion that his "wife" was actually, biologically, a man and shot he/she to death...anyhow this got me wondering.

I don't know how its possible that one could get that far in a relationship without knowing or at least somehow wondering if their partner was actually of the same gender but what would you do if put in the same position?

Say you're the type of guy that doesn't believe in pre-marital sex so you never explored the nether areas of your partner or what if the person had such a convincing surgery that it was somehow indistinguishable from a person born female...what would you do if you later found that this person was actually of your sex?

Also, what about laws? Should states be required to inform both individuals of their original genders as part of the marriage license process?

Personally, I don't know how you can get that far in a relationship without knowing. Granted, I don't have much experience with these sorts of people, at least I don't think I have, so I have no idea how convincing they can actually be.

On the second question I think that States absolutely should inform couples of each partner's true gender. I say "true" gender because I don't think that "sex reassignment" or whatever its called now truly changes the gender of a person. Castration does not a woman make and chromosomes don't lie.
Click to expand...

There are numerous points in your post which need to be corrected or addressed.

1. All children while in the womb begin as female. The hormone testosterone needs to kick in at a certain time in the gestation period to produce a male. And further, while "the system" meaning from conception through birth gets it right most of the time; there are circumstances where children are born with both genitalia, there's too much testosterone or estrogen and that hormone overwhelms the child in the womb. Also there are countless cases where when the baby is born and doctors do not know what the gender of the baby is and they simply "assign" a gender. And you generally cannot tell a boy from a girl until after puberty kicks in anyway.

2. Instances of transgender behavior is not limited to human beings. Certain species of frogs can spontaneously go from male to female and vice versa. Snails incredibly enough have both male and female reproductive organs. Read these links for more information if you wish.

http://conservationr...ed-are-natural/

http://books.google....epage&q&f=false

3. Chromosomes may not lie but they can be missing, deformed or there can even be extra chromosomes. Trisomony 21, more commonly known as Down Syndrome, is an instance where there is an extra chromosome so instead of having the normal 46 pairs, 23 from each parent, there are 22 pairs and the 23rd "pair" has three chromosomes.

4. Castration is when only when the testis are removed. Sexual reassignment surgery involves removal of the testis sure but there is also the for simplicities sake the "splitting" of the phallus and folding it inward to create a vaginal entrance.

5. If the reassignment surgery is done correctly it can just from a visual standpoint fool most OBGYN's. They only know what the deal is upon examination because there is not a uterus, fallopian tube, or ovaries. You know what the difference between an ovary and a testicle is? The testicle drops. But medically they are the essentially the same thing.

6. I find it ironic that most people are completely okay with male being gay even an excessively flaming one but if he wants to become a woman that's somehow wrong?

7. You should fall in love with a person not with what they happen to have between their legs because people are more than the sum of their genitalia. Well some guys are nothing but dicks, and some women are a word that rhymes with runts but that's more proverbial than literal.

Bucky you are obviously free to have whatever opinion you wish. I would encourage you though to do some research on this topic before you form an opinion though. I personally know a couple of male to female transgender people and outside of going through this process they are just like you, me or anyone else. Further, I believe in the US Constitution and in that awesome document we, as Americans, have the unalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. And if someone wants to change gender and that is their pursuit of happiness then who am I to stand in their way?

 
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'SkersRule said:
Bucky, on 18 March 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

I was watching Lockup the other day and they interviewed this inmate who had murdered his "wife" back in the 1980's. Apparently he had met her/him at a gentlemen's club where he/she portrayed her/himself as a woman. They had sex and were even went so far as getting married without the inmate realizing that the "wife" had actually been a man. During the honeymoon the inmate started to wonder and came to the conclusion that his "wife" was actually, biologically, a man and shot he/she to death...anyhow this got me wondering.

I don't know how its possible that one could get that far in a relationship without knowing or at least somehow wondering if their partner was actually of the same gender but what would you do if put in the same position?

Say you're the type of guy that doesn't believe in pre-marital sex so you never explored the nether areas of your partner or what if the person had such a convincing surgery that it was somehow indistinguishable from a person born female...what would you do if you later found that this person was actually of your sex?

Also, what about laws? Should states be required to inform both individuals of their original genders as part of the marriage license process?

Personally, I don't know how you can get that far in a relationship without knowing. Granted, I don't have much experience with these sorts of people, at least I don't think I have, so I have no idea how convincing they can actually be.

On the second question I think that States absolutely should inform couples of each partner's true gender. I say "true" gender because I don't think that "sex reassignment" or whatever its called now truly changes the gender of a person. Castration does not a woman make and chromosomes don't lie.
Click to expand...

There are numerous points in your post which need to be corrected or addressed.

1. All children while in the womb begin as female. The hormone testosterone needs to kick in at a certain time in the gestation period to produce a male. And further, while "the system" meaning from conception through birth gets it right most of the time; there are circumstances where children are born with both genitalia, there's too much testosterone or estrogen and that hormone overwhelms the child in the womb. Also there are countless cases where when the baby is born and doctors do not know what the gender of the baby is and they simply "assign" a gender. And you generally cannot tell a boy from a girl until after puberty kicks in anyway.

2. Instances of transgender behavior is not limited to human beings. Certain species of frogs can spontaneously go from male to female and vice versa. Snails incredibly enough have both male and female reproductive organs. Read these links for more information if you wish.

http://conservationr...ed-are-natural/

http://books.google....epage&q&f=false

3. Chromosomes may not lie but they can be missing, deformed or there can even be extra chromosomes. Trisomony 21, more commonly known as Down Syndrome, is an instance where there is an extra chromosome so instead of having the normal 46 pairs, 23 from each parent, there are 22 pairs and the 23rd "pair" has three chromosomes.

4. Castration is when only when the testis are removed. Sexual reassignment surgery involves removal of the testis sure but there is also the for simplicities sake the "splitting" of the phallus and folding it inward to create a vaginal entrance.

5. If the reassignment surgery is done correctly it can just from a visual standpoint fool most OBGYN's. They only know what the deal is upon examination because there is not a uterus, fallopian tube, or ovaries. You know what the difference between an ovary and a testicle is? The testicle drops. But medically they are the essentially the same thing.

6. I find it ironic that most people are completely okay with male being gay even an excessively flaming one but if he wants to become a woman that's somehow wrong?

7. You should fall in love with a person not with what they happen to have between their legs because people are more than the sum of their genitalia. Well some guys are nothing but dicks, and some women are a word that rhymes with runts but that's more proverbial than literal.

Bucky you are obviously free to have whatever opinion you wish. I would encourage you though to do some research on this topic before you form an opinion though. I personally know a couple of male to female transgender people and outside of going through this process they are just like you, me or anyone else. Further, I believe in the US Constitution and in that awesome document we, as Americans, have the unalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. And if someone wants to change gender and that is their pursuit of happiness then who am I to stand in their way?
Click to expand...
1. I think the wording of my post may have caused a little confusion, especially the chromosome/castration bit which was an over simplified attempt at humor. I understand that there are many aspects of human sexuality and gender. In a very, very small number of cases there can be more to it than an infant simply being female or male but that's a very tiny group of people.

2. I never said that transsexualism, homosexuality, or the existence of hermaphrodites were somehow limited to Humans.

3. Once again, see my earlier note about my OP's closing comment. Yes, chromosomes can be complicated...got it. Still at any rate, with at least some transsexuals, they are..I'm sorry were anatomically and chromosomally male. Surgery won't change that.

4. Again, see my earlier note. I understand what castration is and I know that it is only one part of Sexual 'reassignment' surgery.

5. On this one you actually provided useful information to my questions. So yes, it can be possible for a person to mistake surgically crafted genitalia for what most females have naturally.

6. Yes that is ironic but I never said I'm one of those people. Perhaps my post created that impression but I don't hold any special prejudice or hatred toward transexuals. The idea makes me uncomfortabe but doesn't inspire any kind of hostility.

7. I agree that love should be more than just physical but to say that "love" isn't rooted in any bit of physical attraction is disingenuous.

Everything you said in your conclusion is correct and I agree with it wholeheartedly. To imply I'm ignorant of the subject isn't quite fair but it is what it is.

My issue with the story I saw on television, and stories like it, isn't tied up so much in the fact that the Wife was a transsexual. There's more to it than that. If a man wants to marry a person who used to be a woman or whose sex was biologically indefinite that's fine. I have no issues with it...if both people are aware of it. My problem is with the deception, which can be an issue in any relationship, but seems especially foul in this kind of deal.

 
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It's all good bro! :thumbs

And if you infered from what I typed that I was calling you "ignorant" then I sincerely apologize because I certainly did not intend to label you as such. I suspected from the tone of your post that you were more asking questions than anything else. I simply wanted to paint as complete of a picture on the issue as possible and tried to address all your questions. As you know there are people out there who hate and discriminate against gays and especially transgenders and invariably they always say something akin to, "Well you don't see that type of stuff in nature or the animal kingdom" which is obviously false. As for your contention that "surgery won't change a man into a woman" that is strictly your opinion and we can agree to disagree here. Hormone therapy, electrolysis, and gender reassignment surgery can turn a man into a woman and vice versa. I would challenge you though to take some time, step out of your comfort zone, and actually get to know someone who is transgendered.

 
'SkersRule said:
It's all good bro! :thumbs

And if you infered from what I typed that I was calling you "ignorant" then I sincerely apologize because I certainly did not intend to label you as such. I suspected from the tone of your post that you were more asking questions than anything else. I simply wanted to paint as complete of a picture on the issue as possible and tried to address all your questions. As you know there are people out there who hate and discriminate against gays and especially transgenders and invariably they always say something akin to, "Well you don't see that type of stuff in nature or the animal kingdom" which is obviously false. As for your contention that "surgery won't change a man into a woman" that is strictly your opinion and we can agree to disagree here. Hormone therapy, electrolysis, and gender reassignment surgery can turn a man into a woman and vice versa. I would challenge you though to take some time, step out of your comfort zone, and actually get to know someone who is transgendered.
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Well for all I know I already might.

 
The fact that this is even a possible situation that some feel the need to contemplate would lead me to believe that things are a lot more screwed up on this planet than any of us really understand. I did not vote in the poll because I refuse to even consider it. If this has anyone seriously contemplating how they would react, I would suggest reevaluating how you go about starting and continuing your relationships.

 
JJHusker1 said:
The fact that this is even a possible situation that some feel the need to contemplate would lead me to believe that things are a lot more screwed up on this planet than any of us really understand. I did not vote in the poll because I refuse to even consider it. If this has anyone seriously contemplating how they would react, I would suggest reevaluating how you go about starting and continuing your relationships.
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I'm feeling a lot of hostility simply for asking a few questions. Are you implying something is wrong with my relationships because I heard a story, put myself in another man's shoes and contemplated what I would do in that situation? Yep, guess I'm screwed up. Damn me and my brain I use for thinking.

 
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First, your original post about the convicted inmate starting "to wonder and came to the conclusion that his 'wife' was actually, biologically, a man" while on the honeymoon...doesn't discount that he actually killed the woman. Just because you "wonder" something doesn't make it true.

second

7. I agree that love should be more than just physical but to say that "love" isn't rooted in any bit of physical attraction is disingenuous.
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But physical attraction has nothing to do with original, birth genitalia construction. It's kind of like the old saying, "what you don't know doesn't kill you." You can be in love with their internal personality and extremely attracted to their genitalia...that doesn't mean their chromosomes at birth makes any difference.

Anyways, personally I don't know what I would do because I've never been confronted with that situation. As a newlywed, I'd like to hope that I could continue the relationship. But I know how lots of people could put mistrust in someone over something like that. It'd be as if that person was holding an important secret from you during your entire relationship...keeping it from you on purpose. I'd have to weigh that secret and determine if it was personally and emotionally wrong enough for me to determine that we should end the relationship.

However, physical violence towards another, should never be the answer.

 
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bennychico11 said:
First, your original post about the convicted inmate starting "to wonder and came to the conclusion that his 'wife' was actually, biologically, a man" while on the honeymoon...doesn't discount that he actually killed the woman. Just because you "wonder" something doesn't make it true.

second

7. I agree that love should be more than just physical but to say that "love" isn't rooted in any bit of physical attraction is disingenuous.
Click to expand...
But physical attraction has nothing to do with original, birth genitalia construction. It's kind of like the old saying, "what you don't know doesn't kill you." You can be in love with their internal personality and extremely attracted to their genitalia...that doesn't mean their chromosomes at birth makes any difference.

Anyways, personally I don't know what I would do because I've never been confronted with that situation. As a newlywed, I'd like to hope that I could continue the relationship. But I know how lots of people could put mistrust in someone over something like that. It'd be as if that person was holding an important secret from you during your entire relationship...keeping it from you on purpose. I'd have to weigh that secret and determine if it was personally and emotionally wrong enough for me to determine that we should end the relationship.

However, physical violence towards another, should never be the answer.
Click to expand...
"Doesn't discount that he actually killed the woman"...what do you mean by that? How am I "discounting" the murder? Do you mean that I'm downplaying it or somehow arguing its justified because I never said such a thing. For the record though, the NBC producer verified that the person the inmate murdered was indeed born a man.

Let me address a couple things as people continue jumping on me for asking questions:

1. I'm not advocating violence. Violence is always wrong. I simply asked about it because this man committed a violent act and I imagine others would as well in his shoes.

2. I'm not making any kind of statement about the morality or validity of individuals that have undergone sexual reassignment surgery.

 
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No, i'm not saying that. All I meant was you stated that he wondered about the gender of his wife. Not that he actually had any definitive proof. I'm guessing while on his honeymoon he didn't have a scientist along to verify the gender before deciding to murder his wife.

 
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