Trayvon Martin and "Stand Your Ground" in FL

[Muck]

 

I didn't say law enforcement should take race into account, I'm saying they do. Claiming that police or any other form of 'security' never use racial bias in making decisions in just naive. I'd be willing to be Zimmerman never even follows Martin if he had been a white teen and not a black teen, odds are he would not have viewed him as 'suspicious' or an 'a**hole' as the 911 tapes show.

Actually what you did was 'guarantee' an outcome if the identities had been switched.

 

You are on dangerous ground when you start issuing absolutes based upon your personal prejudices rather than the facts at hand. Automatically assuming bias is irresponsible.

 

You would be hard pressed to find another incident in which an unarmed man is shot and killed and the shooter is not taken into custody and booked. Weather or not charges get filed or what they are is something for the AD later.

 

Off the top of my head I can think of three others just within the past few months; Sarah McKinley in Oklahoma, SFC Eddie Waiters near Ft. Benning & a pizza delivery driver in Memphis (don't recall the name).

 

Generally speaking someone needs a weapon to be considered to be 'threatening your life' and no one is making a claim that Martin had anything other than a tea and skittles.

 

True or not this is not really relevant.

 

"Generally speaking" (this is really going to depend on the jurisdiction but this is more often the case than not) deadly force is considered justified (as a last resort) not only in situations where you reasonably believe you (or a third party) may be killed but also if to prevent serious bodily harm. If a guy has you on the ground pummeling the bejeebers out of you with no sign that he is going to stop, using deadly force to prevent it is justified in most jurisdictions.

 

Screaming "SKITTLES!!" is a meaningless plea to emotion. What Martin had in his pocket is completely irrelevant. What matters from a legal standpoint is whether or not Zimmerman had a legitimate belief that he was in imminent danger of death OR serious bodily harm.

 

If I beat you to death whether pocket contains skittles or a phased plasma rifle in the 40W range doesn't make a damn bit of difference.

 

 

 

The one thing I have found out is you have to wait until all the evidence is uncovered.

 

Take your sane & reasonable opinion elsewhere bub.

[johnnyrodgers20]

 

I didn't say law enforcement should take race into account, I'm saying they do. Claiming that police or any other form of 'security' never use racial bias in making decisions in just naive. I'd be willing to be Zimmerman never even follows Martin if he had been a white teen and not a black teen, odds are he would not have viewed him as 'suspicious' or an 'a**hole' as the 911 tapes show.

Actually what you did was 'guarantee' an outcome if the identities had been switched.

 

You are on dangerous ground when you start issuing absolutes based upon your personal prejudices rather than the facts at hand. Automatically assuming bias is irresponsible.

 

You would be hard pressed to find another incident in which an unarmed man is shot and killed and the shooter is not taken into custody and booked. Weather or not charges get filed or what they are is something for the AD later.

 

Off the top of my head I can think of three others just within the past few months; Sarah McKinley in Oklahoma, SFC Eddie Waiters near Ft. Benning & a pizza delivery driver in Memphis (don't recall the name).

 

Generally speaking someone needs a weapon to be considered to be 'threatening your life' and no one is making a claim that Martin had anything other than a tea and skittles.

 

True or not this is not really relevant.

 

"Generally speaking" (this is really going to depend on the jurisdiction but this is more often the case than not) deadly force is considered justified (as a last resort) not only in situations where you reasonably believe you (or a third party) may be killed but also if to prevent serious bodily harm. If a guy has you on the ground pummeling the bejeebers out of you with no sign that he is going to stop, using deadly force to prevent it is justified in most jurisdictions.

 

Screaming "SKITTLES!!" is a meaningless plea to emotion. What Martin had in his pocket is completely irrelevant. What matters from a legal standpoint is whether or not Zimmerman had a legitimate belief that he was in imminent danger of death OR serious bodily harm.

 

If I beat you to death whether pocket contains skittles or a phased plasma rifle in the 40W range doesn't make a damn bit of difference.

 

 

 

The one thing I have found out is you have to wait until all the evidence is uncovered.

 

Take your sane & reasonable opinion elsewhere bub.

 

 

What people are also forgetting is you don't need a weapon to kill someone. We had a case around here where a man was beaten to death there were no weapons other than fists and feet.

[akita]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/trayvon-martin/cracker-tshirt-759832 and it just get crazier with this trayvon thing. wanted dead or alive ultimatums are okay now, crackers are now the hispanic community also. And spike lee got peple all fired up by typing the home address of george zimmerman. this guy is flat ass walking now. They made it a massive race thing. Unless that jury is all black the guy walks. People are getting sick of this.

[akita]

see the picture on the left it screams murderer. On the right it screams justified homocide. The media sucks and let the facts be layed out.

[walksalone]

It's a shame that the kid got killed, but everyone should pump the brakes with the activism and wait until all the facts come out.

[BIG ERN]

Obama is half white, but is BLACK because he is president. Zimmerman is half white, but is WHITE because he shot a black kid.

 

Zimmerman needs to be set on fire for pursuing this kid. First being told not to pursue, he isn't a real cop, and has no evidence on the kid. Why does it matter if Trayvon sold drugs, had bad grades, or any of that? Zimmerman didn't have knowledge of anything if he were doing bad things. Race also shouldn't be brought up in this case, and until people see it that way society is a joke.

[akita]

Obama is half white, but is BLACK because he is president. Zimmerman is half white, but is WHITE because he shot a black kid.

 

Zimmerman needs to be set on fire for pursuing this kid. First being told not to pursue, he isn't a real cop, and has no evidence on the kid. Why does it matter if Trayvon sold drugs, had bad grades, or any of that? Zimmerman didn't have knowledge of anything if he were doing bad things. Race also shouldn't be brought up in this case, and until people see it that way society is a joke.

did not hear that treyvon sold drugs,knew he was suspended for having a baggy on his posession. Like you said no of that should matter. cannot wait for all the facts to come out. I tried listening to the town hall meeting today and a preacher that was speaking brought up obama and health care. i about threw up. I grinded him out. Then a congresswoman got up there and still did not understand how the city council has the power to arrest anyone like she was asking. almost turned it off. The Jesse ( I am your friend) jackson got up there and made some really great points. In fact used football analogy to things. Then says the guy needs to be arrested. The cops did not arrest him because of their laws,but a grand jury will hear it. Grand juries usually find cause to have people indicted.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

Shooting and killing an unarmed man generally qualifies as a pretty solid case all by itself.

 

Using deadly force against someone who is attempting to kill you generally qualifies as a valid usage.

 

Neither your nor I (nor any of the legions of blowhards who feel compelled to put in their .02 regarding what the police should have done) have any idea of what actually happened between Martin & Zimmerman.

 

Again I am more interested in the law being applied based upon what actually happened than what people who have only read a few histrionic laden blurbs THINK happened.

 

 

Switch races on the shooter and victim and I guarantee you there would have been an arrest at the scene.

 

The racial background of the individuals involved has no bearing on what criteria I want law enforcement to meet before they arrest someone.

 

Conversely switch the races of the shooter and victim and I guarantee you that the Justice Department wouldn't be making noises about possibly filing 'hate crime' charges.

 

I would also prefer if the Federal Government didn't use the racial background of individuals involved in a possible crime as a means to gain political capital.

 

Again that's just me.

I didn't say law enforcement should take race into account, I'm saying they do. Claiming that police or any other form of 'security' never use racial bias in making decisions in just naive.

 

[carlfense]

I didn't say law enforcement should take race into account, I'm saying they do. Claiming that police or any other form of 'security' never use racial bias in making decisions in just naive.

You don't think police or security ever racial profile? We're on the same team BRI . . . but I've seen plenty of scientific and anecdotal evidence that says otherwise.

 

I don't mean that as an attack on the police. The majority of officers that I deal with are consumate professionals.

[bhamHusker]

see the picture on the left it screams murderer. On the right it screams justified homocide. The media sucks and let the facts be layed out.

You know that the photo on the right isn't Travon Martin, right? The photo that right-wing apologist websites have been pushing as the "real" Trayvon has been exposed as a fraud. I agree that everyone needs to take a breath and wait for the facts to come in before rushing to judgement, so lets try to do that without engaging in an attempt to smear the kid with racist thug stereotypes.

[Muck]

Obama is half white, but is BLACK because he is president. Zimmerman is half white, but is WHITE because he shot a black kid.

 

Let's be honest here. President Obama is "black" because if no one knew who he was and saw him walking down the street the first thought that pops into their mind is never going to be "hey look at that white guy!".

[akita]

see the picture on the left it screams murderer. On the right it screams justified homocide. The media sucks and let the facts be layed out.

You know that the photo on the right isn't Travon Martin, right? The photo that right-wing apologist websites have been pushing as the "real" Trayvon has been exposed as a fraud. I agree that everyone needs to take a breath and wait for the facts to come in before rushing to judgement, so lets try to do that without engaging in an attempt to smear the kid with racist thug stereotypes.

never checked out the photo for authentencity. Notice my post. See how the media can manipulate people.

[Apathy]

I didn't say law enforcement should take race into account, I'm saying they do. Claiming that police or any other form of 'security' never use racial bias in making decisions in just naive.

You don't think police or security ever racial profile? We're on the same team BRI . . . but I've seen plenty of scientific and anecdotal evidence that says otherwise.

 

I don't mean that as an attack on the police. The majority of officers that I deal with are consumate professionals.

Because its so much easier pulling out the race card instead of gathering all of the facts and evidence.

 

I do believe that there are some officers out there that do racial profiling but I believe that majority of officers do not.

[johnnyrodgers20]

see the picture on the left it screams murderer. On the right it screams justified homocide. The media sucks and let the facts be layed out.

You know that the photo on the right isn't Travon Martin, right? The photo that right-wing apologist websites have been pushing as the "real" Trayvon has been exposed as a fraud. I agree that everyone needs to take a breath and wait for the facts to come in before rushing to judgement, so lets try to do that without engaging in an attempt to smear the kid with racist thug stereotypes.

 

 

I didn't notice you sticking up for Zimmerman when he was called a P#$$y ass cracker? I think we need to stop with all the stereotypes!!

[bhamHusker]

I didn't notice you sticking up for Zimmerman when he was called a P#$$y ass cracker? I think we need to stop with all the stereotypes!!

Of course I don't agree with that crap any more than this one, and you certainly didn't see me endorsing it. No one in this thread presented "Zimmerman is a pu&&y ass cracker" as a fact, and it was only posted in a "hey look at these idiots" sort of way, so I didn't feel the need to bring it up. I think you're making a mistake if you assume that an absence of comment on a subject equals endorsement.