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When and Why Stars Don't Matter

Does the Star Recruiting System Matter?  

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Osborne never had top 5 or top 10 recruiting classes EVER!

 

Specifically 1986 and 1996 beg to differ. TO didn't have many top ten classes but to say he didn't have any is simply erroneous.

 

And while true freshman starting for Tom Osborne teams was overall rare there were certainly far more than just Tommie Frazier. Any Husker historians out there want to clarify?

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Osborne never had top 5 or top 10 recruiting classes EVER!

 

Specifically 1986 and 1996 beg to differ. TO didn't have many top ten classes but to say he didn't have any is simply erroneous.

 

And while true freshman starting for Tom Osborne teams was overall rare there were certainly far more than just Tommie Frazier. Any Husker historians out there want to clarify?

 

The obvious ones who started as True Freshmen under Osborne:

 

Ahman Green

Ralph Brown (started every game)

Erwin Swiney

 

The following players didn't start, but saw playing time as True Freshmen:

 

Will Shields

Lawrence Phillips

Mike Brown

Grant Wistrom

Zach Wiegert

Aaron Taylor

Mike Croel

Ed Stewart

Trev Alberts

Mike Knox

Jake Young

Broderick Thomas

 

I'm sure there's a few more I'm forgetting.

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Good list Nexus. I tried to answer and came up blank. I guess that's what happens when you start getting old.

 

:thumbs

 

Glad I could help.

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I think we would have seen that one way or another, Giving strength and conditioning lessons that set the standard in college football and some professional organizations was an error I think.

The main mission of the university is education followed by research. That's why schools share so much of their success - it's their mission.

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Back in the late 90's, I remember reading an article and/or seeing a little snippet on TV about how a lot of teams, specifically ut, had basically ran UNL's strength, conditioning, and nutrition program through the copy machine. During 60-3, other programs saw what Devaney started, and what Osborne had been building all those years, and they'd have been stupid not to have come calling like they did, all 'Alms for the poor,' and whatnot.

 

While that unequaled era of dominance also had a lot to do with coaching continuity, player development, roster size, and (really importantly) great in-state recruits, our focus on physical development and nutrition gave us a pretty noticeable edge.

 

In the 60's, Eppley shattered the myth that weight-training made players stiff and inflexible. In the 70's and 80's, I heard we learned a few things from the Russians about Type I and II muscles, and how to train for specific football explosiveness - what KIND of equipment to fill our multi-million dollar facilities with, and what kind of lifts/program to use. Everything pretty much culminated in the 90's with that kind of genetic base to start from.

 

But, everyone knows all this stuff now. It's hard to say we'll ever find anything close to the edge we once had. Stars might make a difference, but there are a lot of other factors involved, especially in the middle of Flyover Country.

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Is the star system valid? Yes and no.

 

Does the star system matter? Yes and no.

 

 

This whole subject is a gray area.

 

If the coaches are good at evaluating talent and recruit to their system, other people's rating don't mean jack, however

there are some things where it does matter. The problem is recruiting services advertise & promote and it affects public perception which can affect a recruit. It's all about the image of how well a program is recruiting & perception. Another thing which recruiting services may be helpful is they in general identify a pool of players that our coaches may not have been exposed to or looked at. So it can be a starting place.

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Back in the late 90's, I remember reading an article and/or seeing a little snippet on TV about how a lot of teams, specifically ut, had basically ran UNL's strength, conditioning, and nutrition program through the copy machine. During 60-3, other programs saw what Devaney started, and what Osborne had been building all those years, and they'd have been stupid not to have come calling like they did, all 'Alms for the poor,' and whatnot.

 

While that unequaled era of dominance also had a lot to do with coaching continuity, player development, roster size, and (really importantly) great in-state recruits, our focus on physical development and nutrition gave us a pretty noticeable edge.

 

In the 60's, Eppley shattered the myth that weight-training made players stiff and inflexible. In the 70's and 80's, I heard we learned a few things from the Russians about Type I and II muscles, and how to train for specific football explosiveness - what KIND of equipment to fill our multi-million dollar facilities with, and what kind of lifts/program to use. Everything pretty much culminated in the 90's with that kind of genetic base to start from.

 

But, everyone knows all this stuff now. It's hard to say we'll ever find anything close to the edge we once had. Stars might make a difference, but there are a lot of other factors involved, especially in the middle of Flyover Country.

 

 

Excellent post and well said. Especially now that we've thrown away our smashmouth heritage so we can copy everybody else and their brother's fluffball multiple scheme our unique edges are pretty much gone. We have absolutely "nothing" unique now (to our internet genius crowd's delight). We still have a little national respect that's slowly eroding but that's about it.

 

It's on you Bo. You better think of something real fast & I hope to God you don't read these forums.

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The correlation between star rankings and st's not perfect...and you couldn't possibly expect it ever to be. There will always be outliers (props to whoever brought up the comparison between Boise St and Notre Dame).

 

In the end I've found the best way to gauge a recruit (since I am not a scout, and aware of that) is by the schools that offer him. I'll trust the judgement of a CFB coach over a rivals scout 99 times out of 100. If these scouts were really that good, they'd be working for a football team. I think that debunks the regional bias theory a little bit. (Again. there's always outliers).

 

The rankings have a threshold, as Nexus' number crunch show. (Kudos, HAL9000) Once more, you can't possibly ever expect it to be perfect, but it seems once you crack that average of a top-15ish class, you can totally expect to be a championship contender.

 

Judge by the offers, not by the stars.

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The correlation between star rankings and st's not perfect...and you couldn't possibly expect it ever to be. There will always be outliers (props to whoever brought up the comparison between Boise St and Notre Dame).

 

In the end I've found the best way to gauge a recruit (since I am not a scout, and aware of that) is by the schools that offer him. I'll trust the judgement of a CFB coach over a rivals scout 99 times out of 100. If these scouts were really that good, they'd be working for a football team. I think that debunks the regional bias theory a little bit. (Again. there's always outliers).

 

The rankings have a threshold, as Nexus' number crunch show. (Kudos, HAL9000) Once more, you can't possibly ever expect it to be perfect, but it seems once you crack that average of a top-15ish class, you can totally expect to be a championship contender.

 

Judge by the offers, not by the stars.

 

:rollin

 

Thanks, Mooseknuckle!

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Go down the list of 5 stars, and tell me who does not offer them. The ranking system is pretty good, not saying they do not miss some. I think if you look at Wisconsin, you see the old Nebraska. Great big giant kids from Wisconsin, playing on that line. May have some that get real good by the end of their careers and go pro, but to start off they are just like our old pipeline used to be.

 

So exceptions happen, some kids get lost in the shuffle, others play the system.

 

But if the kid is a five star, every top program has an offer to him unless he totally does not fit their system, or know they have no chance at him. I think we do that too much. We do not offer some kids that should automatically get an offer from us. Quit worrying about the NO word, if you do not ask, there is no chande to hear YES. Marine recruting taught me that. Attempt to close the deal on any and all.

 

They put a lot of hours into these rankings, have their own camps that kids are invited to and some not invited show up. That is how we ended up with Lucky.

 

The one problem with the 5 star kids, is that they are convinced they are starter material, just by having that star. Attitude changes on most of them it seems. I like the kid that has 5 stars and says he is looking at every single option. Open mind means he is coachable I think.

 

Look at it like kickball, if you are the captain, you always take the best player, never by pass for the average guy. At least I never did or would. That is what this is about. Some mature and develop into that 5 star guy after they are signed, that is what Nebraska has to look for, the real potential down the road. I hope that is what Bo is doing, we will have a better idea of how successful his recruiting has been after this season. Here is hoping he got a lot of diamonds in the rough and they all start to shine this year.

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I doubt seriously that Nebraska will ever get the top level of players, a few, but never the line ups that the top programs have. We truly lost our identity and our ability to surprise, when we went away from the Osborne option game. Can we develop a unique approach again is the question. Some will come and hopefully the direction of the program will bring in exactly what we need, something others may not.

 

That's a good point 'skers. There was a reason NU got top QB's back in the day...other than maybe OU, we were the top option-running program. Everyone was mostly pass-oriented. How many teams not only ran the option in the 80's and 90's, but did it better to actually take option QB's away from us? And now, how many teams are looking for a 'dual threat' QB? Umm...just about all of them?

 

And Osborne didn't necessarily need a top recruiting class, because just about every team we played would only see a strictly option offense once...against NU.

 

Now, NU is just like every other team competing against every other program for the same kind of recruits. Not saying it is relevant to go back to the option offense, but the Huskers have lost that edge they used to have in QB recruiting.

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I doubt seriously that Nebraska will ever get the top level of players, a few, but never the line ups that the top programs have. We truly lost our identity and our ability to surprise, when we went away from the Osborne option game. Can we develop a unique approach again is the question. Some will come and hopefully the direction of the program will bring in exactly what we need, something others may not.

 

That's a good point 'skers. There was a reason NU got top QB's back in the day...other than maybe OU, we were the top option-running program. Everyone was mostly pass-oriented. How many teams not only ran the option in the 80's and 90's, but did it better to actually take option QB's away from us? And now, how many teams are looking for a 'dual threat' QB? Umm...just about all of them?

 

And Osborne didn't necessarily need a top recruiting class, because just about every team we played would only see a strictly option offense once...against NU.

 

Now, NU is just like every other team competing against every other program for the same kind of recruits. Not saying it is relevant to go back to the option offense, but the Huskers have lost that edge they used to have in QB recruiting.

 

 

Bingo!

 

The fluffball advocates either can't comprehend or refuse to acknowledge we're not anywhere close to a hot recruiting area and we'll never out-recruit the USC, Texas, Florida, etc type programs who have outrageous talent right on their door-step every single year. Oh, once in a blue moon maybe but that's it unless we win an NC or two.

 

TO did not achieve greatness by copying everyone else. They were saying back then in the early 90's that "he needs to upgrade his offense to reach the next level" on TV constantly. He then wins three NCs in five years (60-3) and that pretty much had the TV commentators STFU in a big, big way.

 

I think Bo could very well turn into a great, great HC for us but it won't happen unless he has the guts to make his own (and only his own) decisions about what he wants. There's hope though. He gets crucified daily on these internet forums for sticking with a "run 1st" qb and he hasn't backed down yet. I think there's a good chance he'll hack it.

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[name=bshirt' timestamp='1341830906' post='970194]

 

I think Bo could very well turn into a great, great HC for us but it won't happen unless he has the guts to make his own (and only his own) decisions about what he wants. There's hope though. He gets crucified daily on these internet forums for sticking with a "run 1st" qb and he hasn't backed down yet. I think there's a good chance he'll hack it.

 

 

I would say that Bo does make his own decisions but its not on offense, its on defense. We ran a tough unique defense in the Big 12 that not many other teams can or will even try to run and that is our advantage. Last year we had to change that up because of the Big 10, that and we had some very young guys everywhere, so we took a step back. Our defense is going to have to be that uniqueness that brings in the top level talent. Kids are already starting to recognize Bo's ability to put kids in the leauge and its only going to get better. We start winning things that matter and the recruits are going to come, on the defensive side. 4 or 5 years down the road i see us being like Alabama (defensive recruiting wise) We are almost always in the top 3 or 5 with a couple of the top elite defensive talents every year.

 

It may be the opposite of the Osborne era, we lost our unique offensive identity, but were establishing a defensive one.(not that we arent already known for our D, but recruits forget easily) If were going to excel its going to have to be defensively....09 10 defenses every year and well be just fine. Bo has some tricks up his sleeve for the Big 10, he is recruiting stand up D ends, and i can see us mixing in quite a bit of 3-4, he just need the personnel to do what he wants, and doesnt have it yet because of the confrence move.

 

I for one think our defense is going to be great this year, especially against the pass. You get to 3rd and Nebraska (obvious pass), and your screwed. Well have to see how the front 7 will do at stopping the run.

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