TGHusker Posted November 30, 2012 Author Share Posted November 30, 2012 Embrace conservative values without being scary/threatening/demeaning/flip flopping/cold hearted/crazy/radical/condescending. It isn't conservative values that is wrong. It is the people and ideas that are coming from those values. It is how the ideas and values are being presented and discussed from that side of the argument that turns people off. What specific proposals would you make? How would you present "no abortions ever" or "legitimate rape" or "deport all illegals" in a way that doesn't turn away women or Latinos? Quite frankly, many of the things trumpeted by the GOP can't just be hidden under a fresh coat of paint. Those aren't conservative values. Those are Republicans being idiots. very, very true. I think this sums up what happened in the election. It is all about communication - smart communication. When 2 idiot senate candidates place their feet in their mouths on abortion, it is like serving up a beach ball to Hank Aaron to hit out of the park - the liberal media and the Dems ran with it and demonized all repubs with one big broad stroke. I am a social conservative, prolife all the way, I think the pro-life plank should remain in the platform, however, this is not a hot button item anymore with most voters. The party needs to do a better job of addressing the hot button issues in a way the voters can relate too. I agree that conservative ideas can and still do win. It has won in may govenor races - there are many conservative govenors who are making a big difference in their states and more were elected in 2012. However, on the national scene, one needs to be articulate, have a well defined message so that the media and the dems can't twist the message or define you as a candidate. Romney got out flanked by Obama - who spent the early part of the campaign defining Romney as the out of touch, uncaring rich guy and Romney never responded. The party needs to major on a few important points, define the position, educate the voters and stay on target. Carl mentioned immegration - that is one area they can have an image change by showing they care about the hispanics that are in this country and not make statements about 'self deportation'. The boarder fence is important and should be a part of a fair policy but if that is all that is stressed - it comes across as very cold. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 I can only speak for myself and how I view things because all of this is from a personal point of view no matter who is talking. But, since you brought up abortion: I personally believe that abortion is one of the most disgusting things our modern society does. It is taken times 1,000,000,000 when you talk about late term abortions. So, my view on the subject is that I dream of a day when there are no abortions. Now, that doesn't mean banning all abortions right now and no woman will ever have another abortion starting tomorrow. That won't work. Even if the government would ban all abortions tomorrow, that won't stop abortions. That just means they go underground and babies are still being killed. I know that even if I wanted to, I can't stop abortions by women who want to have them. So, (Republicans) stop with the act that you can. So, conservatives need to change the conversation. Let's eliminate the NEED for abortions and through that, change people's attitudes towards...."All you want to do is control women's bodies" ( for which is farthest from the truth but the libs have done a fantastic job of framing the argument around that). I have absolutely no desire to control anyone's bodies. I simply want them to stop killing babies. (and yes, there is a huge difference) How is that done? Eliminate them thinking they NEED to kill babies. Conservatives need to stop feeding into the idiotic talking points from the other side. The base idea of eliminating abortions is a good thing. Putting it out there in a way that makes it easy for the other side to frame it in a threatening way is just plain stupid. This is a good example of my expectation that the GOP will keep banging their head against the same wall. They seem to think, "It's not the GOP ideas that are wrong . . . it's the perception of those ideas that is wrong." If this is the reaction of the decision makers in the GOP they will probably be spending some time in the wilderness. It's Unskewed Polls all over again. The echo chamber lives on. Please explain. Link to comment
carlfense Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Please explain. Which part? Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 All of your post. Link to comment
carlfense Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 You seem to think that your beliefs about abortion would be embraced by women if they would just change their thinking. It's blame projection. Similarly, if we change their polls Romney is going to win big! Losing elections should be an opportunity for introspection. It looks to me like the GOP is revving up to make the same mistakes again. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Nice misinterpretation. I didn't say anything of the sort. Link to comment
TGHusker Posted November 30, 2012 Author Share Posted November 30, 2012 I can only speak for myself and how I view things because all of this is from a personal point of view no matter who is talking. But, since you brought up abortion: I personally believe that abortion is one of the most disgusting things our modern society does. It is taken times 1,000,000,000 when you talk about late term abortions. So, my view on the subject is that I dream of a day when there are no abortions. Now, that doesn't mean banning all abortions right now and no woman will ever have another abortion starting tomorrow. That won't work. Even if the government would ban all abortions tomorrow, that won't stop abortions. That just means they go underground and babies are still being killed. I know that even if I wanted to, I can't stop abortions by women who want to have them. So, (Republicans) stop with the act that you can. So, conservatives need to change the conversation. Let's eliminate the NEED for abortions and through that, change people's attitudes towards...."All you want to do is control women's bodies" ( for which is farthest from the truth but the libs have done a fantastic job of framing the argument around that). I have absolutely no desire to control anyone's bodies. I simply want them to stop killing babies. (and yes, there is a huge difference) How is that done? Eliminate them thinking they NEED to kill babies. Conservatives need to stop feeding into the idiotic talking points from the other side. The base idea of eliminating abortions is a good thing. Putting it out there in a way that makes it easy for the other side to frame it in a threatening way is just plain stupid. Good example about the communication issue. The person or party that defines the issue, wins the arguement. Obama defined Romney and Romney could not get outside of the characture that he was painted as. The libs made contraception of all things a huge issue in the campaign (started by the ABC moderator in the repub primary debate - George Stepmjaljfljfwl). So anything dealing with abortion or health care was recasted as a women's right to contraceptions - as though the repubs wanted to deny contraception to everyone. The dems & there supporters had a long term game plan (using the ABC moderator to try to trip Romney up) to use small issues that had an emotional impact to drive a wedge between Romney and the voters. Romney concentrated on the big issues - economy, debt, foreigh policy - which Obama could NOT win on - so Obama went after the emotional issues that the ave voter could relate to. We have perhaps gone from the era of the 'one issue voter' to the era of the 'small issue voter'. Link to comment
knapplc Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 I hate abortion as well, but that genie isn't going back in the bottle. We won't eliminate the need for abortion, ever. All we can do is change our stance on allowing contraceptives and stop demonizing those who want to use them. Link to comment
TGHusker Posted November 30, 2012 Author Share Posted November 30, 2012 I hate abortion as well, but that genie isn't going back in the bottle. We won't eliminate the need for abortion, ever. All we can do is change our stance on allowing contraceptives and stop demonizing those who want to use them. I'm beginning to believe the same - with today's culture being what it is. The federal gov't hasn't shown the will or courage to overturn Roe v Wade I think only a huge spiritual revival that changes hearts to see that the unborn deserve life will do it. I think only a tramatic national event that brings us to our knees will bring the needed revival. Often spiritual and conservative ideas are accepted after people get burned by living selfishly. We are very much a 'me first' nation and our abortion rate & our national debt is symptomatic of our culture. Link to comment
knapplc Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 It has nothing to do with today. Abortion has been around since humanity has been around. There's nothing special about today, or America, or political ideology, that makes abortion a fact of life. Religious ideology isn't a panacea, either. Being religious or devout has nothing to do with whether you'll have an abortion or not, just like being religious doesn't stop you from sinning. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 I hate abortion as well, but that genie isn't going back in the bottle. We won't eliminate the need for abortion, ever. All we can do is change our stance on allowing contraceptives and stop demonizing those who want to use them. The Republican party isn't "demonizing" the use of contraceptives. They are supporting a church's right to not pay for them in an insurance plan. There is a big difference. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 It has nothing to do with today. Abortion has been around since humanity has been around. There's nothing special about today, or America, or political ideology, that makes abortion a fact of life. Religious ideology isn't a panacea, either. Being religious or devout has nothing to do with whether you'll have an abortion or not, just like being religious doesn't stop you from sinning. You see, to me, the abortion issue has nothing really to do with religion. At least no more than stealing is wrong and that happens to also be a commandment. It has been framed in this religious zellot vision and it doesn't need to be. Link to comment
carlfense Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Nice misinterpretation. I didn't say anything of the sort. Your words: Eliminate them thinking they NEED to kill babies. Your beliefs aren't the problem . . . you just need to change their thinking, right? Link to comment
carlfense Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 The libs made contraception of all things a huge issue in the campaign . . . Wait a minute . . . you think the Democratic Party chose a fight over contraception? Link to comment
carlfense Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 They are supporting a church's right to not pay for them in an insurance plan. There is a big difference. That'd be a nice simple argument but you have the facts wrong. Link to comment
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