Stai

[Nebula]

Just because people like to believe that, doesn't make it true.

 

It's clear that Barney is a scapegoat, and many aren't willing to give him credit regardless of how well his group performs.

 

This applies to an almost infinite number of concepts. For example:

 

"Keith Richards is a better guitar player than Neil Young."

"I disagree. Just because you believe that doesn't mean you're right."

"I didn't say frogs develop from tadpoles. I made a subjective observation."

 

Stating the obvious(?): The mere fact that one disagrees with the beliefs of someone does not necessarily negate the conclusions asserted.

 

It is not clear that Barney is a "scapegoat." It is clear that we haven't had anything resembling an elite offensive line for a good stretch of time now. Yes, it has improved. Directly after we went from one coach manning the unit to having a full three people working full time on the position. Why bring in TWO additional assistants if you have complete faith in the person who led prior to their arrival? Three guys! That's...well, find me another school that has three full time people devoted to one specific position. You might find it. I'd be interested in that.

 

Martinez, Ameer, Braylon, Bell, Enunwa, Turner, Reed, and Cotton. (Never got the credit he deserves for being a stick moving machine. Never ran a route two yards shy of the marker. Solid, sure hands. Solid blocker. HUGE Ben Cotton fan.)

 

Dude, that's about as rich a yield of skill position players we've had in an awfully long time. And you watched the games just as intently as I did. How often did Martinez have a guy in his face immediately? How often did he make something out of nothing? What if he'd been throwing to Frantz Hardy or Wilson Thomas? Or handing off to David Horne? Or not been Martinez at all...instead, Keller or Dailey taking snaps?

 

A line featuring some pro talent and excellent coaching can make a David Horne a 1,000 yard rusher. I think Ameer reached that number because he's a special player, his quarterback is dangerous as sin and thus diverts focus off him, and Bell, Enunwa, Turner, and Reed were all field stretching targets that thinned out holes. 8th in the nation rushing. I know that. Joe Dailey and Horne could've done that with our best O-Lines. No chance in hell we're in the top 25 with those guys, with this year's line.

 

Again - my opinion. Which doesn't make it irrefutably accurate, nor does your disagreement represent empirical evidence that directly refutes my stance. Agree to...whatever

 

EDIT: Oh yeah...Bell and Enunwa were also vicious down field blockers. They sprung 8-13 yd runs into 40+ yd gains a whole bunch of times.

[Nebula]

their arrival also coincided with another assistant's leaving.

Does this mean that the assistant leaving made the unit perform better?

 

Or was it the time spent by Garrison and Stai teaching technique and extending wisdom gleaned from their own personal experience?

 

It's a real question, not trying to sneer at you. I have to say, in this case, I'm leaning towards the added insight and coaching being substantially relevant in the improvement. It's going to be a hard sell to convince me this was a purely an addition by subtraction situation. Hard, but not impossible. Make the case. If you want. Who really gives a sh#t? I want to win big games. I'm still pissed about Wisco, full disclosure.

 

And for both you and the Dude: Did you see how f'ing fast the Badger D got in the backfield on Martinez's miracle TD? It was like *that*. Which is why the 8th in the nation thing doesn't satisfy me in terms of representing proof of the line's production, and especially Cotton's ability as an o-line coach.

 

I'll say it even though anyone who has read my posts know this is intrinsic in most any view I offer, but these are my opinions. They are not the infallible products of an omniscient sentience. So...feel free to tell me why you disagree. I see arguments for Cotton. He isn't a disaster.

 

I think we can do a lot better.

[The Dude]

This is the best offensive line we've had in probably a decade. Sure, I wouldn't call it elite. But that's hardly grounds for calling for someone's head.

 

I understood it in 2009, even in 2010 to some extent. But it's been complete horsesh#t for the last two years.

 

 

Personally, I think it's only a matter of time before he's no longer on the staff anyways. I don't think that will mean instant elite offensive line year in and year out.

[Brouhaha]

If we are planning to move any coach to get another one, please hire one with a significant amount of experience. This training ground stuff has got to stop. Also saw that 2 recruits, Cook (switched to Bama) and Love (now reconsidering) since Marrow left. With Cotton coaching while Bo is on the road, no one on this staff is going anywhere.

 

Sad when one of our better "coaches" and "recruiters" is a GA. Kind of like 3 walk-ons starting over the 20 schollie OL kids........................

 

Cook has always been using us until he got the Bama offer that he's always wanted. It wasn't a shock to anyone who follows recruiting.

Courtney Love is as solid as can be, he said that he was reconsidering for maybe a good 5 hours.

 

I do not follow it that closely. By your comment, it appears the staff doesn't either. Offer a kid that everyone knows is using it to get the Bama offer and we still did? Kind of stupid on our part.

 

They kept his scholarship just in case he never got the offer. Because if he didn't he was coming here. It didn't affect our situation with other corner backs such as Dashon Hunt and Priest Willis. So, it was neither smart or stupid by that staff. If you don't follow it then stop making assumptions.

 

My comment about stupidity on our part was aimed at offering a kid who "was using our offer to leverage Bama". This wasn't a shock to anyone who follows recruiting. Again, if this was "common" knowledge by the internet recruiting gurus, I would assume this was common knowledge of our staff as well. Again, IMO, stupid to offer a kid that everyone knew was using us to get a Bama offer. Or to offer a kid who has no real intention of wanting to play here.

 

And if thinks hadn't worked out at Bama, you know he was coming here how exactly? Have you spoken with him directly during the recruiting process? If not, I guess that would just be an assumption on your part. I mean he said he was coming here and all........Must be a fact. Like Gabbert, Freeman, etc...............

 

He's been quoted saying in articles from Rivals that if the offer doesn't come around he's absolutely fine with playing at Nebraska. If the kid gets the offer, so be it, let him go to Bama and complete his dream. But, if that doesn't happen we get a good corner that doesn't mind being here. So what's the pain in that? Kids do this to every school it's not like he embarrassed us on a national scale like the wisky game. That's what the coaches should be concerned about my friend.

[zoogs]

Strongly disagree dude. A lot of far more qualified opinions than mine are saying our success has been in spite of the line, not because of it. I tend to agree with that, and feel that people continually defending Barney are doing it just to defend him, or they don't like the idea of a nice guy getting so much flak. And that does suck, but what you gonna do. Line has been subpar, probably always will be subpar to average.

 

Not good enough for Nebraska. If we don't have top-notch OL coaching we should be trying to get there.

[Nebula]

This is the best offensive line we've had in probably a decade. Sure, I wouldn't call it elite. But that's hardly grounds for calling for someone's head.

 

I understood it in 2009, even in 2010 to some extent. But it's been complete horsesh#t for the last two years.

 

 

Personally, I think it's only a matter of time before he's no longer on the staff anyways. I don't think that will mean instant elite offensive line year in and year out.

 

I don't know man...complete horsesh#t to me is calling for a guy who won 10 games this year to be on some kind of hot seat. (Never heard you intimate that view, just to be clear. Referencing those that made that leap, not you.)

 

Thinking that NU should be capable of having some lines that are punishing, disciplined, and feature some depth seems reasonable to me. Not every year. But at least SOME years, for god's sake. Best line in a decade? That's possible. And step back and think about what you're saying. A decent to sometimes pretty good line is our best in ten years, and the the guy steering that unit has been around for a good while.

 

Decent to pretty good. Best in years. That's not going to get it done.

 

I'm patient, I really think I can make that assertion with a degree of confidence. You know my opinions to at least some degree: I'm not a reactionary, "burn down the world when we lose" guy. I think enough time has passed to say that if this year represents what we can expect from our line under Cotton when they're "better then they have been for x amount of years" then it's time to weigh our options and consider making some changes. Maybe at CU, where the facilities are sh#t and support is nil, you accept what we've accomplished under Cotton. With our facilities and resources, there is no good reason to be so frickin mediocre on the line year in and year out.

[The Dude]

Strongly disagree dude. A lot of far more qualified opinions than mine are saying our success has been in spite of the line, not because of it. I tend to agree with that, and feel that people continually defending Barney are doing it just to defend him, or they don't like the idea of a nice guy getting so much flak. And that does suck, but what you gonna do. Line has been subpar, probably always will be subpar to average.

 

Not good enough for Nebraska. If we don't have top-notch OL coaching we should be trying to get there.

 

Who is saying that?

[Nebula]

Who is saying that?

 

I certainly don't fit the protocol of someone "far more qualified to comment" than zoogies (or you, for that matter,) but I'm saying it.

 

Do you think Martinez's total yardage on the ground against MSU was due to the O-line? Do you think a guy lacking Taylor's near freakish ability for explosive, immediate acceleration and straight line speed would have accounted for equal yardage through grinding Collin Klein style drives?

 

I'm inclined to say no. In fact, I think that game is a perfect example of how our skill position talent accounted more for the success of our offense this year than the ability of the guys up front. Reiterating, this isn't a bad O-line. They sure as hell had something to do with the output we generated on offense this year. But we have exceptional skill players, and a multitude of them. Not good players, exceptional. And they made us dangerous on offense. Not the line. Which we both agree is the best unit we've trotted out in a while.

[HuskerNationNick]

Average yards per carry

Ameer Abdullah- 5.0

Taylor Martinez- 5.6

Rex Burkhead- 7.2

Braylon Heard- 6.7

Imani Cross- 5.9

Mike Marrow- 3.0

C.J. Zimmerer- 4.5

Kenny Bell- 4.0

-----------------------

Totaling= 5.4 yard average

 

Passing:

61% 7.69 average

 

29 Sacks allowed, to remind you, if he gets stopped in the backfrield while trying to keep the ball, this counts as a sack. With a mobile QB, your prone to have more sacks on your record, than say a pocket passing QB.

 

I think our success on offense goes to the OL. Not many people are giving Barney enough credit and would rather throw him under the bus. Our success running the ball has been BECAUSE of the line. Compared our line to last years, where Burkhead had to EARN every single yard. Our line may not be perfect, but its damn good. Credit goes to Barney and Garrison for doing what they could with what they had. Hell, they turned a walk on into an All American. First one since '01 IIRC.

 

As for TE's coach, its been Garrison for the most part, and before Marrow came in, it was Ron Brown. Ron Brown molded Reed and Cotton into what they are today. My guess, he will still continue to do what he does best, and help anyone he can to be a better player.

[The Dude]

Average yards per carry

Ameer Abdullah- 5.0

Taylor Martinez- 5.6

Rex Burkhead- 7.2

Braylon Heard- 6.7

Imani Cross- 5.9

 

Your Honor, I rest my case!

[zoogs]

That's the problem with statistics. Often portrayed as fact; rarely telling the whole story.

 

I think Nebula hit it on the head with the CCG as a great example of a time where we couldn't rely on our skill players to give us a running game, because of the OL. Unless something changes -- and it could be players, coaches, both, who knows - it is likely and reasonable to expect that we are always going to have to deal with this mediocrity, working around OL issues, not having the running game available to us at all times we'd like, and problems with pass protection.

 

I hope that we're able to keep RB, WR well stocked for years to come. If not, and if the OL situation doesn't dramatically improve, I think we will find out just how special this bunch really is.

[HuskerNationNick]

That's the problem with statistics. Often portrayed as fact; rarely telling the whole story.

 

I think Nebula hit it on the head with the CCG as a great example of a time where we couldn't rely on our skill players to give us a running game, because of the OL. Unless something changes -- and it could be players, coaches, both, who knows - it is likely and reasonable to expect that we are always going to have to deal with this mediocrity, working around OL issues, not having the running game available to us at all times we'd like, and problems with pass protection.

 

I hope that we're able to keep RB, WR well stocked for years to come. If not, and if the OL situation doesn't dramatically improve, I think we will find out just how special this bunch really is.

 

We had 282 rushing yards in that game. Take away Martinez's 72 yard run, you still have over 200 on the ground against a top 25 rushing defense. We established a running game, we just never established a defense.

[Hedley Lamarr]

We will get to see what our "top 10" oline does against UGA. We already know we lack talent in the trenches. No need to stick up for our OL Coaches. Barney is a below average OL coach who we have been giving far too many resources too to make us average in the trenches. Is Barney the best OL coach NU can get? Is he one of the 10-15 best in the country? We all know the answer to that guys.

[Army_Allen]

^And the point of that is the O-line has been marginal for an extended period of time. Cotton has not shown the ability to produce upper-tier performances from the position. He's had plenty of time. More than enough.

I don't agree with this at all. The offensive line has improved by leaps and bounds over the last few years. I'm not sure of the stats, but we're one of the top rushing teams in the nation, in a conference that's loaded with quality linebackers. That flat out does not happen with a "marginal" offensive line.

 

We're definitely not where we were in the 90s, but we probably have a top 10 offensive line in the nation. That's something that takes a hit with the loss of Jackson, however.

Maybe as far as running, POSSIBLY. But pass pro? These linemen are mediocre at best.

[C N Red]

We will get to see what our "top 10" oline does against UGA. We already know we lack talent in the trenches. No need to stick up for our OL Coaches. Barney is a below average OL coach who we have been giving far too many resources too to make us average in the trenches. Is Barney the best OL coach NU can get? Is he one of the 10-15 best in the country? We all know the answer to that guys.

Holy sh#t! Merry friggin xmas! I actually agree with you. Our oline was soooo poor against Wisky in CCG in all facets.