Syria

[BigRedBuster]

I'm tired of this sh#t. There was a time when I felt we were doing good stepping into something like this, preventing genocide and standing up for people who were incapable of helping themselves. No more. It's time they pay the price for having such a dysfunctional society. Unfortunately it will more than likely be the most innocent in the area who pay the heaviest price but, whatever. When those innocents get tired of getting pushed around, they're going to have to figure out how to build a society that is not in a constant state of war. Let em kill each other and the strongest survives. The only way they stop hating us is to stay the hell out of it. I'm with those who say let our enemies kill our enemies. And I don't care what happens with the oil. I really, really don't care anymore. One broken fingernail on an American soldier is too high of a price to pay for that shithole region of the world. No aid, no forces, no help. f#*k em.

 

You of all people, I would not have thought would ever say something like this. This whole comment makes me sick, but especially the bolded part. You claim to be Christian and love your "brothers and sisters" and then you say this?

 

 

That is what a large number of people want over there. Probably 10-12 years ago I was riding in a cab and got having a discussion with the driver. He was from some country over there that was in turmoil at the time with some ruthless leader. I asked him what they want the US to do about it. He ended up going on a 20 minute tirade about how the US needs to stay out of it. Nobody over there wants US help. If the people want the tyrant out of office bad enough, they will kill him. At the time, I was shocked at his comments. Here he was a refuge from this country because of the tyrant and his family was still in danger over there and very well might be killed and he still didn't want US help.

 

Since, then, I have been paying attention to as many news outlets as possible. The MEDIA and POLITICIANS talk about the need for us to do something, however, I very seldom if ever hear someone who is a civilian in those countries begging us to come help them. Then, when we do help, they end up hating us for it.

 

Prior to 9/11, I was full fledged on the side of needing to help these people out and eventually they will realize we are not the bad guys. Since then, I have come to the conclusion that will never happen and any "help" we give only results in more hatred and more killing of Americans and more money (that we have to borrow) spent on a wasted cause.

[Ratt Mhule]

I'm tired of this sh#t. There was a time when I felt we were doing good stepping into something like this, preventing genocide and standing up for people who were incapable of helping themselves. No more. It's time they pay the price for having such a dysfunctional society. Unfortunately it will more than likely be the most innocent in the area who pay the heaviest price but, whatever. When those innocents get tired of getting pushed around, they're going to have to figure out how to build a society that is not in a constant state of war. Let em kill each other and the strongest survives. The only way they stop hating us is to stay the hell out of it. I'm with those who say let our enemies kill our enemies. And I don't care what happens with the oil. I really, really don't care anymore. One broken fingernail on an American soldier is too high of a price to pay for that shithole region of the world. No aid, no forces, no help. f#*k em.

 

You of all people, I would not have thought would ever say something like this. This whole comment makes me sick, but especially the bolded part. You claim to be Christian and love your "brothers and sisters" and then you say this?

 

 

That is what a large number of people want over there. Probably 10-12 years ago I was riding in a cab and got having a discussion with the driver. He was from some country over there that was in turmoil at the time with some ruthless leader. I asked him what they want the US to do about it. He ended up going on a 20 minute tirade about how the US needs to stay out of it. Nobody over there wants US help. If the people want the tyrant out of office bad enough, they will kill him. At the time, I was shocked at his comments. Here he was a refuge from this country because of the tyrant and his family was still in danger over there and very well might be killed and he still didn't want US help.

 

Since, then, I have been paying attention to as many news outlets as possible. The MEDIA and POLITICIANS talk about the need for us to do something, however, I very seldom if ever hear someone who is a civilian in those countries begging us to come help them. Then, when we do help, they end up hating us for it.

 

Prior to 9/11, I was full fledged on the side of needing to help these people out and eventually they will realize we are not the bad guys. Since then, I have come to the conclusion that will never happen and any "help" we give only results in more hatred and more killing of Americans and more money (that we have to borrow) spent on a wasted cause.

 

Im not talking about the US getting involved. I dont want the US to start a war either. But to say "whatever" to the thought of innocent men, women and children being killed "especially by chemical weapons" is sick and wrong. Those people didnt ask to be born in Syria, just as you and I didnt ask to be born here. I wish them the best and hope for no more innocent death "I know it will prob happen, but its not whatever to me. It pains my heart". "One broken fingernail" on an innocent civilian, especially a child, is too much.

[BigRedBuster]

I'm tired of this sh#t. There was a time when I felt we were doing good stepping into something like this, preventing genocide and standing up for people who were incapable of helping themselves. No more. It's time they pay the price for having such a dysfunctional society. Unfortunately it will more than likely be the most innocent in the area who pay the heaviest price but, whatever. When those innocents get tired of getting pushed around, they're going to have to figure out how to build a society that is not in a constant state of war. Let em kill each other and the strongest survives. The only way they stop hating us is to stay the hell out of it. I'm with those who say let our enemies kill our enemies. And I don't care what happens with the oil. I really, really don't care anymore. One broken fingernail on an American soldier is too high of a price to pay for that shithole region of the world. No aid, no forces, no help. f#*k em.

 

You of all people, I would not have thought would ever say something like this. This whole comment makes me sick, but especially the bolded part. You claim to be Christian and love your "brothers and sisters" and then you say this?

 

 

That is what a large number of people want over there. Probably 10-12 years ago I was riding in a cab and got having a discussion with the driver. He was from some country over there that was in turmoil at the time with some ruthless leader. I asked him what they want the US to do about it. He ended up going on a 20 minute tirade about how the US needs to stay out of it. Nobody over there wants US help. If the people want the tyrant out of office bad enough, they will kill him. At the time, I was shocked at his comments. Here he was a refuge from this country because of the tyrant and his family was still in danger over there and very well might be killed and he still didn't want US help.

 

Since, then, I have been paying attention to as many news outlets as possible. The MEDIA and POLITICIANS talk about the need for us to do something, however, I very seldom if ever hear someone who is a civilian in those countries begging us to come help them. Then, when we do help, they end up hating us for it.

 

Prior to 9/11, I was full fledged on the side of needing to help these people out and eventually they will realize we are not the bad guys. Since then, I have come to the conclusion that will never happen and any "help" we give only results in more hatred and more killing of Americans and more money (that we have to borrow) spent on a wasted cause.

 

Im not talking about the US getting involved. I dont want the US to start a war either. But to say "whatever" to the thought of innocent men, women and children being killed "especially by chemical weapons" is sick and wrong. Those people didnt ask to be born in Syria, just as you and I didnt ask to be born here. I wish them the best and hope for no more innocent death "I know it will prob happen, but its not whatever to me. It pains my heart". "One broken fingernail" on an innocent civilian, especially a child, is too much.

 

I will guarantee you that JJ and I feels the same way.

[JJ Husker]

I'm tired of this sh#t. There was a time when I felt we were doing good stepping into something like this, preventing genocide and standing up for people who were incapable of helping themselves. No more. It's time they pay the price for having such a dysfunctional society. Unfortunately it will more than likely be the most innocent in the area who pay the heaviest price but, whatever. When those innocents get tired of getting pushed around, they're going to have to figure out how to build a society that is not in a constant state of war. Let em kill each other and the strongest survives. The only way they stop hating us is to stay the hell out of it. I'm with those who say let our enemies kill our enemies. And I don't care what happens with the oil. I really, really don't care anymore. One broken fingernail on an American soldier is too high of a price to pay for that shithole region of the world. No aid, no forces, no help. f#*k em.

 

You of all people, I would not have thought would ever say something like this. This whole comment makes me sick, but especially the bolded part. You claim to be Christian and love your "brothers and sisters" and then you say this?

 

Po, I may have worded it a little wrongly. I don't wish to see any innocents suffer anywhere, anytime. But I am also extremely sick and tired of the US simultaneously being considered the villain for interfering and also the only force capable of setting things right. The men and women of our armed forces should not have to be put in the position of being unappreciated world police. That is what I am sick of. Unfortunately, that means some of these backwards countries are going to have to get set straight from within. That will likely involve innocent, good people paying the price. I wish it weren't that way but it is. I've already accepted it needs to be that way so my words may have seemed more harsh than appropriate. I see only two options; Our forces pay the price with their lives or their people pay the price with their lives. I'm not going to apologize for picking a side when those are the only two options. I'm all for exploring options 3-4-5-6-7 etc. to avoid that but war, civil or otherwise, seems to be where that region of the world always ends up.

[zoogs]

Thanks for the detailed response, Conga.

 

Certainly you did make a better argument for the possibility that the Assad guys used chemical weapons, but doesn't that only put it on the same speculative ground as the thought that maybe it was the rebels? I'm fairly alarmed by the definite, declarative statements by some of the Western governments that they are absolutely sure it was Assad, and that the weapons inspection doesn't matter because they allowed them in too late. Yes, that definitely looks bad, but it's circumstantial, no?

 

If the Syria regime were important to us in the region instead of enemies, I feel that's what we would be pointing out. I'm worried that we're barreling headlong into military strikes with regime change as the only real motivator.

 

Officials are also saying we have to be able to respond to things like this without the UN, but then, what is the UNSC for if it's not going to stop any factions within it from doing whatever they want?

[sd'sker]

I'm tired of this sh#t. There was a time when I felt we were doing good stepping into something like this, preventing genocide and standing up for people who were incapable of helping themselves. No more. It's time they pay the price for having such a dysfunctional society. Unfortunately it will more than likely be the most innocent in the area who pay the heaviest price but, whatever. When those innocents get tired of getting pushed around, they're going to have to figure out how to build a society that is not in a constant state of war. Let em kill each other and the strongest survives. The only way they stop hating us is to stay the hell out of it. I'm with those who say let our enemies kill our enemies. And I don't care what happens with the oil. I really, really don't care anymore. One broken fingernail on an American soldier is too high of a price to pay for that shithole region of the world. No aid, no forces, no help. f#*k em.

 

You of all people, I would not have thought would ever say something like this. This whole comment makes me sick, but especially the bolded part. You claim to be Christian and love your "brothers and sisters" and then you say this?

 

Po, I may have worded it a little wrongly. I don't wish to see any innocents suffer anywhere, anytime. But I am also extremely sick and tired of the US simultaneously being considered the villain for interfering and also the only force capable of setting things right. The men and women of our armed forces should not have to be put in the position of being unappreciated world police. That is what I am sick of. Unfortunately, that means some of these backwards countries are going to have to get set straight from within. That will likely involve innocent, good people paying the price. I wish it weren't that way but it is. I've already accepted it needs to be that way so my words may have seemed more harsh than appropriate. I see only two options; Our forces pay the price with their lives or their people pay the price with their lives. I'm not going to apologize for picking a side when those are the only two options. I'm all for exploring options 3-4-5-6-7 etc. to avoid that but war, civil or otherwise, seems to be where that region of the world always ends up.

honestly, i do not know how anyone could disagree with this. no reason our innocent men and women should be sent over there and be a world police. not only is it unfair to them (they signed up to protect their country, not every country), it is just poor diplomacy. we can stop them from killing each other (best case scenario), but they will still be hateful and miserable. there is nothing we can do to make them function properly (by that, i mean we cannot just impose our will and hope they just end up living peacefully), that is something they need to figure out on their own.

[BigRedBuster]

My question is....when are THEY going to be sick and tired of seeing THEIR innocent people slaughtered?

 

That sounds like a ridiculous question but it's not. The response from my cab driver is a very telling attitude. So, if you don't agree with someone politically (and as it turns out religiously) you just kill them? What a sick society. There is NOTHING we can do from the outside to help fix this. This has to be fixed from the inside.

 

This is no different than having a sibling or child who is a crack addict. Honestly, nothing is going to change until that person decides to change it. That person has to get so far down that they no longer want to live that way.

 

These people are not going to change until they are tired of it and decide to fix it the right way. Until then, we need to do everything we can to distance ourselves from them. That means militarily, politically and economically. The only thing we need is to keep the CIA there to know what is going on.

[ShawnWatson]

Let the Shia and Sunni keep fighting and stay the f#*k out of this.

[strigori]

Until that part of the world wants to move its society and culture out of the middle ages, we need to stay the F out of it. They want to gas their own people, then their people better do something about it. Real change only happens from within. The West has the society and cultures we do, because our ancestors decided that monarchies and tyrants had to go, and overthrew them.

 

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. When has our involvement in middle east affairs ever gone well? All that tends to happen is the creation of a new tyrant, or govs leaning into theocracy.

 

We are not the planet's police force.

[walksalone]

Until that part of the world wants to move its society and culture out of the middle ages, we need to stay the F out of it. They want to gas their own people, then their people better do something about it. Real change only happens from within. The West has the society and cultures we do, because our ancestors decided that monarchies and tyrants had to go, and overthrew them.

 

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. When has our involvement in middle east affairs ever gone well? All that tends to happen is the creation of a new tyrant, or govs leaning into theocracy.

 

We are not the planet's police force.

 

[HUSKERherc]

I've heard throughout the years that if good men don't stand up for leadership roles, bad ones will. I think in this situation America has to be that leader that stands up and says "No more!" If we don't we're looking at more Russian involvement in Syria. I guess I'm just not a fan of a possible "King of the East" (Russia) crossing the Euprhates and being that close to Israel.

[Conga3]

Thanks for the detailed response, Conga.

 

Certainly you did make a better argument for the possibility that the Assad guys used chemical weapons, but doesn't that only put it on the same speculative ground as the thought that maybe it was the rebels? I'm fairly alarmed by the definite, declarative statements by some of the Western governments that they are absolutely sure it was Assad, and that the weapons inspection doesn't matter because they allowed them in too late. Yes, that definitely looks bad, but it's circumstantial, no?

 

If the Syria regime were important to us in the region instead of enemies, I feel that's what we would be pointing out. I'm worried that we're barreling headlong into military strikes with regime change as the only real motivator.

 

Officials are also saying we have to be able to respond to things like this without the UN, but then, what is the UNSC for if it's not going to stop any factions within it from doing whatever they want?

 

Well, that's just it. It is all speculation. Until Assad says he did it (he won't) or until you believe everything your government tells you (you shouldn't), we have to read between the lines of the reports that come out from reporters and journalists who are either incompetent at the art of journalism or are simply mouthpieces for some government.

 

It's my belief Syria has been using chemical weapons for months...in smaller conflicts/amounts. Local reporters have estimated about 30 attacks so far. Unfortunately, those didn't reach a threshold of outrage sufficient to be a catalyst for war. This latest attack did. It had mass casualties (kinda) and believable international witnesses (sorta).

 

The US appears to have been waiting for a reason to use the big stick against Assad...and the recent chemical attack was deemed sufficient to cling onto as the drumbeat of war started. No doubt our own gov is spinning us a tale and it's a full on PR campaign to justify the upcoming smack down. The staged 'outrage' by Kerry (still a horrible speaker) over the use of these chemical attacks does seem a bit much - but they have to use what they've got cause they are going forward with the attacks.

 

It's not hard to conclude that Obama was happy waiting while elements of Al Qaeda were fighting elements of Syria/Hezbolah/Iran until a politically justifiable excuse to use full US military air support/bombings to clear a path for the rebels to overthrow Assad -- but that is more speculation. The rebels have proven unable to unseat Assad...so he must be removed by external force--but the US is hesitant/reluctant to simply do this without a good backstory to fuel the campaign. Chemical weapons provide that excuse.

 

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Secondly, the UN is not setup to settle disputes of this magnitude. Forget the charter...forget the false 'importance' we give them... even if it seems like the UNSC should take control over something like this..or they should have the final say in matters like this...it simply can't function like that in almost every situation that requires actual military conflict to resolve.

 

Whether it is UNSC sanctions or UN inspectors, they are only as effective as the stick they carry...and the UN stick is a joke.

 

Maybe (and that's a very loose maybe) they are capable of policing (with military-like assets) conflict zones nobody really cares about and don't consider a real threat (read Africa). Even then it's probably a terrible idea to let the blue helmets be in charge of anything.

 

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How I see this playing out:

 

We (+allies) provide enough military support for the rebels to oust Assad. Meanwhile Iran uses this conflict as an opportunity to attack Isreal. Isreal bombs Iran. Stuff happens. Assad is out. We push for a UN force to maintain peace in Syria and confiscate the chemical weapons. Iran threatens retaliation ..but cools off. Syria is a clusterf**k like Egypt for years to come while they figure out life without a dictator (harder than it sounds).

 

If we get out of this without MAJOR catastrophe, and Assad is not in power -- it's a win.

 

Then IRAN.

[EbylHusker]

A lot of these situations seem like an opportune times to unload some of our overstocked nukes before their expiration dates, plus make some glass.

[walksalone]

I've heard throughout the years that if good men don't stand up for leadership roles, bad ones will. I think in this situation America has to be that leader that stands up and says "No more!" If we don't we're looking at more Russian involvement in Syria. I guess I'm just not a fan of a possible "King of the East" (Russia) crossing the Euprhates and being that close to Israel.

 

We have no business what so ever in Syria. The U.N. should be doing something about us, not us...

 

A lot of these situations seem like an opportune times to unload some of our overstocked nukes before their expiration dates, plus make some glass.

 

and don't stop until you get to the Sea of Japan...

[carlfense]

How I see this playing out:

 

We (+allies) provide enough military support for the rebels to oust Assad.

Do you think that's the goal? My best guess is that it's a one time cruise missile/high altitude strike designed to minimize casualties. A "stop that" slap on the wrist . . .

 

Is it likely to work? I have no idea but I would be surprised if we are drawn into the civil war.